Alcohol Alcohol Megathread

[Backfromthebrink]

Maybe i have read this wrong, but are you saying you're RX'd the fentanyl patches, oxycodone AND up to 36mg of subutex? That doesn't sound right...

 

[tacodude]

They used to be prescribed the first list before the detox now they are only prescribed the second

 

[Backfromthebrink]

That makes more sense....

Didn't think anyone would still be prescribed the first lot if they had been started on subutex...

But re. the subject in question, I know OP says he can't do inpatient detox, but 1.75 litres of gin per day is a pretty substantial level of alcoholism...trying to detox from this at home is pretty dangerous..

DTs (delirium tremors) aren't the same thing as grand mal seizures...the later which could potentially prove fatal..

I know you have oral benzos but getting doesages right may be difficult, and once a seizure starts, it's too late to do anything about it on your own..

It just all seems a bit worryingly dangerous to attempt without professional help to me...

 

[TrickyNicky]

FIRST OFF
Thank you, to everyone that has responded, as I'm a stranger and nobody has to say anything/try and help.

TacoDude - you're correct. I only mentioned the former list of drugs so everyone would understand that I have detoxed from a nasty habit before, and been in heroin/fent/opiates (in general) detox a million times - just once it occurred in the hospital, as I was completely delirious from stopping the benzos.


I was rifling around my bag of "old medications" and I found Gabapentin. Probably at least 125-150 300mg pills. I know these also work on GABA, and they would be sort of helpful, right?

I'm trying to avoid inpatient detox at all costs because of:
- I'm a grad student and I seriously cannot take 3-7 days off to go to the hospital. I mean, if it's straight up medically necessary ... I suppose, but my uni is going to want to know why --- that ain't going to look too good...
- MY FAMILY --> if they knew this shit I would break their hearts all over again
- Insurance... mine is based out of North Carolina, and now I live in New York again... I'll investigate if detox is even covered under my plan (it's through the ACA, but it is fairly 'decent' insurance, but definitely not as good as the one I used to have).


I don't have any Seroquel. I'm really not sure where to find a medicine like that (no, I'm not sourcing - chill out Mods).
What other types of anti-psychs could I use??? I know a girl who at one point was taking Lithium.


Is the point of the Seroquel (or any anti-psychotic) to fall asleep, use it as an anti-seizure med, or both??


ALSO- Should I stop taking my Wellbutrin (150mg ER 1x)?? Doesn't Wellbutrin alter your seizure threshold, as in lower it??

I apologize for so many damn questions ... like I said ... I know opiate/benzo wd, but I don't know shit when it comes to alcohol withdrawal.

Thanks again,
Nick

 

[TrickyNicky]

That makes more sense....

Didn't think anyone would still be prescribed the first lot if they had been started on subutex...

But re. the subject in question, I know OP says he can't do inpatient detox, but 1.75 litres of gin per day is a pretty substantial level of alcoholism...trying to detox from this at home is pretty dangerous..

DTs (delirium tremors) aren't the same thing as grand mal seizures...the later which could potentially prove fatal..

I know you have oral benzos but getting doesages right may be difficult, and once a seizure starts, it's too late to do anything about it on your own..

It just all seems a bit worryingly dangerous to attempt without professional help to me...

I know my posts are long guys, it's just that I want to provide ALL the information that I think is necessary in getting the best/most informed response.

It is 1.75L of gin every 48hrs, and if I REALLY try to not drink it will last 60hrs, rarely 72.


Thank you for mentioning the difference between the DTs and a grand mal...
The Doctors at detox never made the distinction, though they did say I NEVER seized, to which they were quite surprised.


I guess I'm going to have to seriously think about in-patient detox, or find a very large supply of anti-seizure/psychotic meds..

 

[Backfromthebrink]

Gabapentin is an anticonvulsant although it is thought that this is independent of any GABA (B) agonism.

Benzos should prevent seizures from going cold turkey from that amount of alcohol so it's not like what you're proposing is in anyway wrong, it's just that it's potentially a very dangerous thing to attempt on your own...

If for example you weren't to take adequate precautions against a seizure, that amount of alcohol would make the odd of having one very high indeed.

It's a conundrum, since as you say, taking time off for inpatient detox may raise questions etc. it just worries me that you might end up hurting yourself....

Alcohol detox is much, much more dangerous than opiate withdrawl (incidentally, I imagine you would be in for far longer than 3-7days)...

Is there no way you can do this at home but still under some degree of medical supervision by at least telling your doctor what you are attempting? It's likely that even with the benzos you may not be feeling well enough to attend your classes anyway.

Edit....sorry...missed that but about the gin being every 2 days...

Just worried about you is all dude.

 

[TrickyNicky]

Okay, Gabapentin is not going to be as helpful as I thought it might be... Noted.

What if I DONT go CT?? That wasn't my initial plan, as I didn't think it would be safe either.

What if instead I was to drink 1.75L every 3 days, then 4 days, then 5, etc...
Much easier said than done - I know.
That idea was kinda the point about being given all those 3mg Xanax - so I could chill out... and slowly come off the booze.

I have a friend that is an RN. I guess it's time to fess up and tell her what I've been up to... maybe she can help acquire anti-seizure meds.

Once a grand mal starts --- it's not going to stop, right?

I really do appreciate your concern. Idk how I got here, man... I never thought booze would become an issue for me; then again, no one wakes up and says "I want to become physiologically dependent on a substance"....

 

[tacodude]

You could ween.... You seem smart enough to do it, but it is a long painful process that can easily go wrong. In an in patient setting in a medical facility they are set up for emergencies that are likely to arise.

 

[Backfromthebrink]

Okay, Gabapentin is not going to be as helpful as I thought it might be... Noted.

What if I DONT go CT?? That wasn't my initial plan, as I didn't think it would be safe either.

What if instead I was to drink 1.75L every 3 days, then 4 days, then 5, etc...
Much easier said than done - I know.
That idea was kinda the point about being given all those 3mg Xanax - so I could chill out... and slowly come off the booze.

I have a friend that is an RN. I guess it's time to fess up and tell her what I've been up to... maybe she can help acquire anti-seizure meds.

Once a grand mal starts --- it's not going to stop, right?

I really do appreciate your concern. Idk how I got here, man... I never thought booze would become an issue for me; then again, no one wakes up and says "I want to become physiologically dependent on a substance"....

Gabapentin is still an anti convulsant med but it's works via a different mechanism other than GABA (B) so it's still usefully.. and obviously benzos are vital for anti seizure..

I think maybe your best bet is to try and taper the alcohol as best you can and have benzos on hand..

And yes once a grand mal seizures starts you will know nothing about it...and when you come round (hopefully you do actually come round) you don't even know what day of the week it is...people under estimate how dangerous seizures are...I've quite a bit if experience in treating them...usuallygive rectal diazepam and the whem the person has stopped seizing, IV diazepam or midazolam..but taking oral benzos as a prophylactic is your best bet.....especially if you're doing this alone.

And of course people are concerned bro...personally I've no time whatsoever for morons and bullshitters but you seem a good guy and I genuinely don't want to see anything bad happen to you and really want to try and help if I can in any way.

 

[Scrofula]

OK, sorry I didn't go over all your posts closely, I noticed some problems right off the bat:

"It takes a fifth in a few hours to get drunk" but a handle lasts two days (sounds weird because, then you aren't even getting drunk? what kind of drunk are you?, but the volume is totally not even eye-brow raising). Your drinking career is only ten months though and you admit you didn't drink at all on 5% of those days. I'm wondering how bad the binges are.

You are also using/were using/plan on using benzos concurrently.

You quit something and got the "DT's"--you were "delirious for eight days" (no, you did not get the DTs. Those are fatal without treatment and extremely rare, and they are distinct from withdrawal seizures, which do not last eight days).

You also got some kind of supervised detox for a pile of other drugs.

We can't give you any safe advice based on this info, other than enroll in big-money treatment if you want sobriety. If we take you on your word about your use, the amounts anyway, you cannot safely detox at home.

Given past and current history, it should be clear to you that you can't just trust yourself with a Librium taper at home

So, good luck, find a professional.


*A fifth a day of Seagram's dry gin, my old habit, at a pre-meth zaftig 90kg.

 

[Backfromthebrink]

OK, sorry I didn't go over all your posts closely, I noticed some problems right off the bat:

"It takes a fifth in a few hours to get drunk" but a handle lasts two days (sounds weird because, then you aren't even getting drunk? what kind of drunk are you?, but the volume is totally not even eye-brow raising). Your drinking career is only ten months though and you admit you didn't drink at all on 5% of those days. I'm wondering how bad the binges are.

You are also using/were using/plan on using benzos concurrently.

You quit something and got the "DT's"--you were "delirious for eight days" (no, you did not get the DTs. Those are fatal without treatment and extremely rare, and they are distinct from withdrawal seizures, which do not last eight days).

You also got some kind of supervised detox for a pile of other drugs.

We can't give you any safe advice based on this info, other than enroll in big-money treatment if you want sobriety. If we take you on your word about your use, the amounts anyway, you cannot safely detox at home.

Given past and current history, it should be clear to you that you can't just trust yourself with a Librium taper at home

So, good luck, find a professional.


*A fifth a day of Seagram's dry gin, my old habit, at a pre-meth zaftig 90kg.

I don't think it's safe to detox at home either. FWIW

 

[Lorne???]

He said it lasted 2-3 days, that isn’t that bad

If it were me, could easily use the benzos; of course if it was me the benzos would last 72hrs

However, for you, inpatient is probably safer; actually certainly safer, although would understand why you would not want to go

Scro is pretty much right, despite our rantings we are not psychiatrists, and even if we were this is not detailed enough and requires taking you on your word

The benzo dosage would be easy, they are way stronger than drinking 95% of the time, and. Sasonetimes making a fifth last 72hrs...

I was not an alcoholic, yet used to drink a half gallon of liquor (well 1.75) at parties for fun, and once blacked out, a chick took a video of me then chugging 4 or 5 beers that I just took from people during a jam seas/card game or something(thing we had that Bacardi 140 or something before that

On topic, you have a history, and trusting yourself to do something that you have no training or real grasp of is simply unrealistic; sorry

Best of luck, either way quit drinking while you can

 

[Scrofula]

It's totally doable to taper yourself down from that habit; for me, the issue is risk of concurrent use of benzos.

The benzo levels are low right now, but you already had issues with them. You're just way to poly-drug for home detox. Death is a real possibility.

You need professionals and counseling.

 

[tacodude]

Without someone to watch over the op 24/7 with the ability to get emergency service and if necessary provide emergency intervention there is no way anyone can say this is safe to do alone.

 

[Lorne???]

^ I could, with willpower; the problem is he is a poly drug user, as Scrofula said, with a history

His alcoholism is not severe enough to cause delirium tremens on it’s own(if we take his word) yet again, we have a lot of factors here, and alcohol wd can de lethal, like the other powerful GABAergics, and starting a benzo dependency is not a big improvement

 

[Larimar]

Hmm your best bet without telling your parents or going to rehab is to taper. Cold turkey is just too dangerous with all your meds and history of drugs . If you are really ready to quit then put your mind to it and cut back . There are online taper schedules available .

 

[Lorne???]

^ With his history that is, well unless he devoloped super willpower and intermediate knowledge of pharmacology, GABAergics just should not be played with

Thiugh again, feel for you; my freedom is so precious to me, understand the desire to avoid inpatient treatment

continue posting PRN

 

[Backfromthebrink]

Its definately possible and id like to see OP manage it...but just from a professional perspective, alcohol CT is worse than many people think ..having witnessed many grand mal seizures, there's not much warning and they can be devastating....even if there's someone else present and you have oral benzos .they've aren't gonna do much good once a seizure presents itself.. I mean, you could prepare a pre-made solution of rectal diazepam in PG and train someone to administer it ...but realistically? That's not gonna happen is it..

There are just too many variables.. (including will power) to safely do this at home.

 

[Nicholai]

Hmm. I was going through a handle(1.75L) of vodka a day, or a box(5L) of wine a day, for a while. Not all the time, though. I'd drink to the point of annihilation when I ran out of my opioid scripts, which always happened very quickly. So I was taking my scripts for 1-2 weeks a month, and then drinking the rest of the time.

I decided I just couldn't do it anymore. I felt like death, every nerve in my body was on fire, I had constant diarrhea, etc. After a while, I was hearing things, shaking, etc. Not real DTs, but certainly classic withdrawal symptoms. So, I called 911 on myself, said 'oops,' told the lady I was fine, and went to bed. Woke up to the cops banging on my front and back doors. Answered the door in a plush robe with a ton of cigarette burns in it. I told them thanks for checking on me, and they offered to get me an ambulance, so I accepted that kind offer.

What a freaking low. I guess that's as close to rock bottom or whatever as I've ever been.

So, off we go to the hospital. They evaluated me, and gave(as soon as they could get a line in, which took a long time, with my shot veins) 5 mg of IV lorazepam, kind people that they were. That certainly helped a great deal! They also gave me 50mg of Librium after a while, which did nothing, so I was administered another 2mg of lorazepam every few hours.

They also sent in the psych squad after a while, evidently to evaluate if I was retarded, which was indeed the term they used, and needed to be moved to the psych ward for treatment. I'm certainly not, I have a tested IQ above 160, but that level of alcohol consumption was, at least for me, definitely debilitating both mentally and physically. They decided I was fine, the lady stayed and talked to me for a while, and told me that I would, without a doubt, benefit from talking to a trained professional to excavate and address the issues that had brought me to that point.

Eventually, it was decided that I was good to leave. Their strong recommendation was that I go to detox for a week. They were going to find a place and transport me there in an ambulance, complete with a 'Tranxene pack' for me to take with me. I wasn't willing to do that, however. I had a doctor's appointment the next day, and had benzo scripts coming in the mail, so I brightly decided that I couldn't miss out on that, and that I would be okay on my own. They called me a cab, and were kind enough to give me another shot of lorazepam, as well as a pair of scrubs to wear, as I had arrived at the ER wearing an awful robe which I had trashed at the earliest opportunity.

The withdrawals lasted another eleven days. I lived, although I was completely unable to sleep the entire time, despite all the opioids and benzos I was dosing myself with.

I provided all of these extraneous details simply for perspective. I'm not dead, although I could have died, according to the estimation of my medical team. I also missed out on all of the aftercare and treatments that would have been available to me had I accepted the treatment plan given to me by those providers, who, by the way, were actually all wonderful to me and treated me like a human being and not a piece of trash, despite the horror stories that we're all familiar with. I haven't recovered entirely, and haven't stopped drinking completely, either.

It does sound like you have a lot of benzos, but how about afterwards, and what happens if you run out? What happens if you do have a medical emergency? You can't evaluate and treat yourself with any amount of expertise, no matter what your level of knowledge is. Self-diagnosis and treatment is derided for very good reason.

I hope you make it through this, unscathed, and are able to make the right decisions for yourself. But most definitely look into post-withdrawal treatments and therapies, no matter what, even if you think you don't need them! I think those resources make all the difference when it comes to not repeating these cycles and finding yourself in such a state again.

 

[Scrofula]

I wish you the best of luck, OP. Everyone needs to cut out booze from their lives.

Treatment for alcohol abuse is cold turkey abstinence, with a supporting taper of long-acting benzos, like Librium, along with blood pressure meds. You will need treatment for your malnutrition, with lots of B vitamins. You will need anti-nausea medication. Your vitals will be monitored. Staff needs to check on you every fifteen minutes for the acute first couple days.

You will still go through alcohol withdrawal, just not at the interactive hallucinations level. IOW, you won't sleep for two days, or bring a spoon from bowl to mouth without spilling, for over a week. You will get drenching sweats at the slightest exertions, still dry-heave, while you get the shits; you'll start sobbing with happiness at random things, then want to die again. After a week of that, you will feel like you could eat a piece of toast. And a shower seems possible.

So honestly, you're gonna have to be in a place that will hand you the dose you need at the doctor-determined time. Only doctors or Lorne have the training to know which benzo goes when; if you try it yourself, you could wind up coming down off a bunch of Xanax while in alcohol WD. That could be lethal.

But hey, you have 28 days free and thousands and thousands of dollars, right?