A very dark topic...Read at your own risk.

Status
Not open for further replies.
WHeteher there is a God, supreme being, creator, etc. is certainly up for debate....
But the God portrayed by those folks who call themselves Christians (and usually do very little in the way of following the philosophies of Jesus of Nazareth, who was a hell of a man whether hwe was divine or not) is surely a fiction.
Why? Because the christian concept of God is full of many logical contradictions that cannot be explained away.
For example, "God is perfect." If there is a God, they certainly are not perfect, or else Lucifer would not have rebelled, man would not do evil, etc.
"God is all good (omnibenevolent)." Nope. Bad shit happens. And it isn't some 'test' of worthiness, and if it is, that's a pretty fucked up way to treat people eh? Torture them so they worship you?
You could go on and on with this... the fact is, the Christian 'God' is a fiction used for justification of human prejudices and bears little or no resemblance to any God, living, dead or nonexistant.
 
Turbo, perhaps you missed the part in reading about the First Crusade where the Crusaders massacred the populace of Jerusalem. How surprising that when the Muslim Saladin retook the city, he made the turnover as civil as possible, and did not repeat the Christian bloodbath. And the pillage of Constantinople (and the burning of its library) by the Fourth Crusade was an outrage--committed by fellow Christians.
As someone with an interest in Western history, I hope you'll understand why I have little sympathy for any of the Crusades, or other "noble" ventures carried out by the Church during that time.
 
I have figured it out...I got stoned and when that happens all I do is talk, but there was no one arounf so I talk inside myself.
There isnt a god but a higher power. You can feel it everytime you go outside. It isnt god but Mother Nature, and I believe there is more than just one higher power.
I dare you just try and feel the energy coming from the earth, trees,and sky.
Hey Stasis I think that's who watching over me.
------------------
"When information is outlawed only outlaws will have information"
 
I have said this before, but does it really matter if there is a god?? does it??
Would knowing beyond doubt that there was a god change your actions or decisions in life?
It shouldn't.
Let's suppose you know there is a god. Should you then stop killing people? WHAT DOES GOD HAVE TO DO WITH IT? You should stop killing people anyway!
You should be all the things you should be & do all things you should do regardless of the existence of God.
This is my personal rule of life:
It doesn't matter if you're there for 2 minutes, 2 hours, 2 weeks or 2 years. It only matters that you were there. Look back & ask yourself, "Was this place better for my having been there?"
This means a broad number of things to me, from "don't litter" to "some people need to have harsh examples presented to them in order to be educated." (As a VERY simple example of the latter: If you see someone driving very slowly in the fast lane, get in front of them & go even slower. You are providing a safe example of what not to do inthe fast lane & may keep them out of it in all their future driving.) It applies to me in everything I do, not by my choice, but by default, & by having things better when I leave, I have no regrets in life.
I love you all------D
------------------
Waiter, what moon is this on my plate? Take it back please, I ordered the sun.
 
Well, even recently when the church took away the 'lost genetration' of the aborigines. They told them all their culture/life style was satanic and would force them to conform or be severly beaten/punished. Its not only in ancient history when the church was bad, just look at ireland today.
Personally l dont believe in the institutions version of god, but i do however do believe in a god. The God who's presence is reflected in every person, and in everything. No one can 'know' God in a logical egotistical way as so many priests today think they do. But you can accept god and reflect upon the love.
Groovy baby,
yeah.
 
A wise man named Voltaire once said,
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
*** "Have you seen the Light?" ***
 
It says that man was destined to create God. It explains that just because the majority of the world believes in God, it does not mean God exists. In other words, it's impossible for there not to be a belief in God.
I have always loved that quote, Voltaire has an uncanny way of simplifying misunderstood notions.
Some other of my faves:
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." [Voltaire]
"You will notice that in all disputes between Christians since the birth of the Church, Rome has always favored the doctrine which most completely subjugated the human mind and annihilated reason." [Voltaire]
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." [Voltaire, Philosophical Dictionary, 1764]
"As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities." [Voltaire]
"Holy Scripture: A book sent down from heaven.... Holy Scriptures contain all that a Christian should know and believe, provided he adds to it a million or so commentaries." [Voltaire]
"Most of the great men of this world live as if they were atheists. Every man who has lived with his eyes open, knows that the knowledge of a God, his presence, and his justice, has not the slightest influence over the wars, the treaties, the objects of ambition, interest, or pleasure, in the pursuit of which they are wholly occupied." [Voltaire]
"Atheism is the vice of a few intelligent people." [Voltaire]
 
NECROTRANCE: i feel the same way and thought the same things you have. you just put them into words that i could never have. thank you.
smile.gif
 
STASIS:
I've been visiting BL daily for several months, but have only today begun to post.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread; fortunately, because you and Trancendance have articulated my arguments for me (quite well, I might add), I have been able to remain on the sidelines.
Here are some more quotations you might enjoy:
"Faith consists in believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe. It is not enough that a thing be possible for it to be believed."
-Voltaire
"Heathen, n. A beknighted creature who has the folly to worship something he can see and feel."
-Ambrose Bierce
"Each religion, by the help of more or less myth which it takes more or less seriously, proposes some method of fortifying the human soul and enabling it to make peace with its destiny."
-George Santayana
"Mystic: a person who is puzzled before the obvious, but who understands the non-existent."
-Elbert Hubbard
"Faith means intense, usually confident, belief that is not based on evidence sufficient to command assent from every reasonable man."
-Walter Kaufman
"When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life."
-Sigmund Freud
Here's to more intelligent conversation.
L O V E L I F E
------------------
"E doesn't make life beautiful; it REMINDS you that life is beautiful."
 
See, I dont believe God is an idiot. I dont think he was walking along one day and stumbled across a large switch which said, "Pull to activate universe." It just didnt happen that way.
No, there is a reason, a purpose as to why we are here. Why everything is here, cause God created EVERYTHING. And one of the fundemental concepts of Gods creation seems to be that everything is different from everything else. A snow flake, a moment in time, a motion, a landscape, everything.

This also extends to religions. See, christianity says that other religions were created to entrap the non-believer but by that logic christians would be outnumbered by an astronomical amount. Add up everyone who existed before christianity was created, and everyone who simply chose not to be a christian...its like a billion non-christians to every christian. Then subtract those christians who were not true chrisitans but joined christianity to rape, pillage, kill and not be persecuted by christians...I think you get my point.

See we already established that God isnt an idiot. Lets say that hell is not just a fantasy of the church, I dont think God would allow so many to go into hell just for one to go into heaven. Which is why l think the term 'God created everything' includes all religions. But why?

Just like i think that God created evolution inorder to form man, I also believe God created man to form religion. Another fundemental key to creation is change. In order for religion to be relevant to man, it would have to be controlled and altered by man. Christianity 200yrs ago is drastically different to christianity today.

So getting back to the quote..."If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." Theres two points i'd like to say, the first is that everyone is different. God knows this. He would create different religions to suit everyones lifestyle, traditions, world views, personality, habits ect.

The second is that each religion attempts to do the same thing, that is to tune people into God. Thru prayer, meditation, poetry and any thinking that causes people to focus on God.

See, l also think that God is everywhere, including inside people. By doing those things, you get intouch with the God inside you. Of coarse l mean energy, spiritualism, ect. I dont think of god as a judgmental 3-d creature in heaven that looks down on us. But rather a mass of cosmic, creating energy with a collective consciense, which fills everything and everyone. God cant be in heaven like the church says, and everywhere like the church also says unless he was apart of a reality known as 'heaven' and this reality. Energy.

By inventing a "god" people are able to tune their thoughts into that energy, that part of them that is of spirit. Take visions for example, they are present in christianity and also the american-indian traditions. Both religions were formed practically on the opposite sides of the world, within completely different cultures, yet both have this similarity.

God knows that people are different. So there are different teachings, traditions, religions from which each individual can pick and chose their own spiritual path. Yet each path leads towards the same goal.
------------------
We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I always think about life. Why does the majority of people go to school, then college, then we get a job, and work our asses off for the rest of our life, whats up with that?
weird
 
LOVELIFE-
I know GOD...I've talked to GOD... I've communed with GOD... and you're no God.
wink.gif

I'm at work right now and so I don't have time to expound fully on my rationale for believing in God, but I intend to post my unabridged views soon. My purpose will not be to prove that the existence of God is more likely than not, but simply to argue that either view can be rationally supported.
Maybe then you bully atheists will back off my theist brethren!
See you soon.
 
i have an idea about what is after death...
1st of we have an energy to us this might be what some people think (and i believe) is our soul. since, energy cannot be created or destroyed or "souls" are not destroyed after death. therefor, when we die our souls are either housed in a new body, and the transfering of bodies we lose our memories of our past. or we stay in our energy form still remembering our past as a ghost. i hope this will bring a peace to your life. i was once lost in the nothing after death thought but i formed this idea and my life has been better ever since
love and cheerish your life because it is the only thing your truely own...me
 
Glowbug:
Nice Lloyd Bentsen reference!
wink.gif

I'm have *faith* that I speak for my atheistic brethren Statsis, Trancendance, and others when I urge you to BRING IT ON!
We can a certainly use someone with your capable mind refueling this lively debate with arguments other than the tired,
"I love God and God loves me and the world is so beautiful and since no one can adequately explain to me why it makes perfect sense that our feeble minds can't understand why we're here or even IF there's a reason why we're here, so therefore, GOD MUST EXIST. He just HAS to!"
We're eagerly waiting, Glowbug.
Let the Games continue!
wink.gif

------------------
"E doesn't make life beautiful; it REMINDS you that life is beautiful."
 
YES, JESUS LOVES ME!
YES, JESUS LOVES ME!
YES, JESUS LOVES ME!
THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO!
------------------
Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
LOVELIFE and Trancendance:
Aw shucks, there go my first two points! Gosh, you guys are gonna be tough! We might just have to pitch ah'selves a tent and tho' us a good ole-fashioned revival down heah to SAVE you heathen boys! Somebody say AMEN!
Still warmin' up-don't worry, I'll give ya somethin' better than that to chew on.
 
"1st of we have an energy to us this might be what some people think (and i believe) is our soul. since, energy cannot be created or destroyed or "souls" are not destroyed after death. therefor, when we die our souls are either housed in a new body, and the transfering of bodies we lose our memories of our past. or we stay in our energy form still remembering our past as a ghost"
Why do peoples misunderstanding of the term "energy can not be created or destroyed" always work its way into the "proof" of the existance of a soul?
All that phrase means is exactly what it says: 1) Energy cannot be created means that you cannot simply cause energy in any form to simply come into existance, it must come from somewhere, such as from a chemical reaction (batteries, your body converting food and oxygen into heat/electricity). 2) Energy cannot be destroyed simply means that energy must go somewhere or be converted to something else, even if it simply is radiated away (such as the heat from a recently dead person).
Your body takes food and oxygen and uses it, among other things, to create heat and create electricity for your brain to operate. When you die, say from heart failure, your body stops providing food and oxygen to your brain. Your brain can no longer convert this to energy, so it can no longer send signals to your body to function (or use this energy to "think"). You die and the leftover heat is simply radiated away, absorbed by the surrounding air and whatever you happen to be touching when you die. All of the "energy" is accounted for, none of it is "destroyed".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top