A very dark topic...Read at your own risk.

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Hey Glowbug . . . .
. . . we're still waiting!
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"E doesn't make life beautiful; it REMINDS you that life is beautiful."
 
While everyone here go's on arguing yeah or nay on the existance of God, I will patiently wait till the end of the book to find out one way or another.Personally, I could care less how it turns out.
But bet your ass on this, I'm gonna get a good run outta the one and only life I have, regardless of who is or isnt keeping tabs on me.
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"My humanity is still (E)volving!" Growing in mind, body, spirit and danc*e*bility.
AIM NAME....oldenroller
 
This is short but this is all you must try to understand!
1)Believe that there is only 1 GOD.
2)GOD created everything.
3)Everything in life is pre-determined by GOD, what I mean is that GOD knows everything that will happen in our futures, EVERYTHING!
4)Lots of media out there like TV for example, is simply garbage, don't even take the news too seriously.
5)Believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell.
Thank you!
Samer
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~I don't care where, just far away.
 
religous discussions....tsk tsk tsk
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"We are a unique culture in which differences like age, weight, hair - skin - eye color doesn't matter. We are a culture that can enlighten peoples self-esteems" - Delta 9 : Thunderdome 98
P.L.U.R keep the love strong and the Unity in the scene.....
-Santa
 
Well, I think this world is a creation of a single intelligent being, it just seems set up to exactly to have been chance.
Don't waste your time trying to convince people there is a God. If God himself came down to Earth in all his glory, doing anything he could do, even he couldn't prove the existence of God to some people.
Personally, I kinda think of death as a gift. After I am done living, I might get a chance to see for myself what happens, and find out the truth.
 
Well, I think this world is a creation of a single intelligent being, it just seems set up too exactly to have been chance.
Don't waste your time trying to convince people there is a God. If God himself came down to Earth in all his glory, doing anything he could do, even he couldn't prove the existence of God to some people.
Personally, I kinda think of death as a gift. After I am done living, I might get a chance to see for myself what happens, and find out the truth.
 
Quickly: I believe when we die, our "energy" is dispersed into the universe. Somewhere, anywhere, whatever form. Doesn't matter but I believe that this is what keeps life going. I don't believe in re-incarnation. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. I don't believe that when you die, that's the end. I believe that our souls, karma, whatever you want to call it (I call it energy) gets sapped into the ground and that perpetuates life as we know it.
BTW: I don't think this topic is depressing, it's just a fact of life that we all try to come to grips with in our own way. There's no right answer as far as I'm concerned.
Peace
smile.gif
 
"After I am done living, I might get a chance to see for myself what happens, and find out the truth."
And in all likelyhood, find out nothing at all.
Triad, your post reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw that said:
"If Jesus returns, they'll get him again."
 
I have wondered about God, and if he's real. I came to this conclusion, God is everywhere I look; trees, sky, wind, ocean, and dirt. If you want to hear God listen to the sound on a new born baby. I know he's real. If what you say is true, you'll never know your DEAD, so...why worry? If your afraid of the dark, come into the light.
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"I saw a city in the clouds"
 
I hope no one posted this but I didn't have time to read through all 10 pages.
"Sir, I contend we are both atheists. I simply believe in one less God than you, when you understand why you reject all other possible Gods you will understand why I reject yours".
Forget who's quote that was, but It's so good.
And secondly this is rather leanghty but I thought it might do Christians some good:
God created evil (Isa 45:7, Lam 3:38), God is a deceiver (2 Chron 18:22, Jer 20:7, 2 Thess 2:11), Tells people to lie (1sam 16:22), makes false statements (Gen 2:17), Orders a man to become drunk (Jer 25:27), Rewards the fool and transgressors (Prov. 26:10), Is not all powerfull (Judges 1:19), Threatens to spread dung on people (Mal. 2:3), Makes false prophecies (Jonah 3:4 vs. Jonah 3:10, Gen. 15:13 vs. Ex. 12:40), God caused adultry (2sam 12:11-12), Ordered the taking of a harlot (Hosea 1:2, Hosea 3:1-2), God killed people justly and unjustly (Num. 16:35, Deut 32:39, 1sam 5:6, Psa. 135:10 etc. etc.) God ordered killings (Num 25:17, Ezek 9:6 etc.) Ignored his own advice (Job 5:2 vs. Deut. 13:17, 5:9 etc.) Is not omnipresent (Job 1:12, Num23:15, Gen 11:5), Is not omniscient (Gen 3:9, 2 Chron 32:31, Ezek 20:3, Psa 14:2), God repents (Ex. 32:14, 1sam 15:35 etc.), God is unjust (Ex. 4:22-23, Num 14:18, 1Chron 21:1, 21:7, 1sam 6:19), God plays favorites (Deut 7:6 etc. vs. 2Chron 19:17), God Promotes slavery (Joel 3:8, Deut. 15:17, 1Tim 6:1-2).
Ok Enough of that, I've got like two pages left and I don't want to forget about Paul and David...
If you ladies are looking for main reason women have had to struggle so hard for equal status. Look no farther than Paul the self proclaimed prophet, who contrary to popular belief actually had more to do with the new testement than Jesus himself.
1 Cor. 11:3 "I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the women is the man", also see 1Cor 11:7-9, Eph. 5:22-24, col 3:18. If you think those are bad you don't even want to know how badly women are degraded in the Old Testement.
Next we have David(You know David and Golieth)... 1Kings 15:5 "David did that which was right in the eyes of the lord", 1 Sam 25:28 says "My Lord [David] fighteth the battles of the lord, and evil hath not been found in thee all thy days."
So what did David do?
He killed (1Sam 18:17), Ordered Murders (2Sam 1:15), Exposed himself like a Pervert (2 Sam 6:20), Displeased the Lord (2 Sam. 11:26-27), impregnated another man's wife (2 Sam. 11:2-5), Told his friend to lie (1 Sam 20:5-6), Committed bigamy and polygamy (2 Sam 3:2-3, 5:13), arranged for a man to be killed in battle so he could obtain the man's wife(2sam. 11:2-5) (And there is plenty more)
The reason I mention David is because Jesus' claim to being the messiah is dependent upon this unruly character being related to him.
(I've read the bible and I know it quite well but since I'm not in the mood to look up verses for hours on end I shamelessly copied quite a bit from http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld )
[This message has been edited by SolarFlare6 (edited 22 September 2000).]
 
SolarFlare, your first quote was by Stephen Roberts. That's one of my faves BTW.
Your post itself reminded me of this one:
"You can cite a hundred references to show that the biblical God is a bloodthirsty tyrant, but if they can dig up two or three verses that say "God is love," they will claim that you are taking things out of context!" - Dan Barker, Losing Faith In Faith
Also, I think you would really enjoy this, check it out: http://www.maroney.org/essays/even_if_i_did_believe.htm
 
Your experiance sounds a lot like mine. I've been an Atheist now for about 12 years. Its not that I dont like the idea of god, its just that I think that god and religion were made by man to fill in all the blank spots we dont have answers for in order to make us feel better. I would rather embrace a harsh truth than a comforting lie. In other words it does suck that we just die, but we have to deal with it. Its better than living in a denile that God is there to catch you at the end of it all.
Concerning the whole Big Bang thing, I've read several really good explinations. 1: The universe has enough mass to colapse back in on its self. Thus every couple of billion years the expansion of the universe slows down to a stop and is then drawn back in towards itself. What happends when it collapeses? The big crunch. Followed imediatly by another big bang. Thus the universe is constantly recreating itself. Infinity is a hard concept to come to terms with.
These are just my own personal beliefs and I dont mean to pass them off as fact. Please dont anyone feel that Im condeming you or your beliefs. I believe the most important thing in life is tolerance.
Congradulations on expanding your universe.
"Religion is the opiate of the masses." Karl Marx
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Mentat
AIM=BigHag80
 
Excellent link Stasis
smile.gif

I really find it hard to believe people can actually derive any moral value out of that book. I read stuff on contradictions, fallacies and whatever else for like 2 years before I finally decided to read it myself. "Holy Shit" was all I could say, dispite all the stuff I'd read I had no idea It would be THAT bad.
Gen. 3 man cast out of eden, Gen. 4 first murder, Gen. 7 God kills everyone, and things don't get any better.
Exodus 4:5 "Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me" WTF? was that *really* a nessesary addition to scripture?
(Gotta edit one more quote in hehe, "Hands that help are better than lips that pray" - Ingersoll?)
[This message has been edited by SolarFlare6 (edited 22 September 2000).]
 
I know many people have already replied to this topic but I really felt I needed to say what I need to say. There is no way that you can convince anyone that there is a God because you have to let Him into your heart and soul to live life the way He wants us too. True, there is no hard physical evidence that He exists, but that is what FAITH is all about. I feel him all around me and in me, I can't explain it, GOD RULES!!!! You know that hankering feeling that you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing? Or perhaps that constant depression that you can't seem to shake, that is your souls response for not living God's Will. I know I do drugs, and drink etc. but I truely feel that "moderation is the key" I don't believe a lot of stuff in the Bible, but if you have a question and you are quiet enough then you will hear the answer from Him. Oh, and one more thing, to answer the post that said if God loves us so much why is the world in shambles? Well I hate to break it to you, but WE chose to let Satan into our lives, we CHOOSE to let wars, famine, and poverty happen. If everyone TRUELY had the Holy Spirit then there would be no question that the world would be a great place, but as long as evil holds any kind of sway over us then we will continue to live in a world that is a battle field of good and evil. I hope I didn't come accross as a bible thumping southern baptist, cause I am NOT, I am very accepting of everyone cause I know that it is everyone's choice and I can't make them choose the right way, and I also know that many things I do in my own life aren't right, but I am working on that, well anyway, I hope what I had to say had some merit and if anyone wants to talk about it then just email me or whatever, thanks!
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"Nobody's romancing cause its too early for dancing, but here comes the music..."
 
Sit down with a seriously well taught biology professor, and discuss this topic..Science can explain almost everything.
yet nobody wants to spend all of eternity in a box in the ground, so we make shit up.
 
Yes it is true while Science can explain almost everything, that is in the Physical form --in what we can SEE around us, what about the Spiritual form? Has everyone forgotten that the flesh dies? But flesh is just that--Flesh--our minds are what? Flesh in the physical form! What about our Souls? We all have one--Come on, you know that you have a soul, we are not just flesh! So faith is what we can not see but what we can FEEL! When you are on X--you FEEL--it's not just what you see around you. X opens a door I believe--I used to do it a lot, and everyone has the right to choose what's best for them, but for me I have chosen to (in faith) await something much greater and eternal. He told me it is all of our inheritance if we choose it to be! He has given all a choice! He told me that when I was very down in life and crying because all I wanted was to feel the happiness I felt while on E all the time, asking why if it feels so good, why is it looked as being bad---that's when I learned that I knew it was not the way I should be walking, I knew it all along and like a baby hurt and trying to seek shelter from the world I opened up my heart and arms to him for him to pick me up and he has never let me down!
I'm not trying to change anyone's views or to impose them on anyone, everyone has the right to live the life they feel best for themselves, but let's not completely rule it out---because we can not see it or fathom it!
Spirituality is important too, it is the light glowing from the deepest part within ourselves, it is what makes us unique and SPECIAL!
PEACE
Skye*
 
Yes it is true while Science can explain almost everything, that is in the Physical form --in what we can SEE around us, what about the Spiritual form? Has everyone forgotten that the flesh dies? But flesh is just that--Flesh--our minds are what? Flesh in the physical form! What about our Souls? We all have one--Come on, you know that you have a soul, we are not just flesh! So faith is what we can not see but what we can FEEL! When you are on X--you FEEL--it's not just what you see around you. X opens a door I believe--I used to do it a lot, and everyone has the right to choose what's best for them, but for me I have chosen to (in faith) await something much greater and eternal. He told me it is all of our inheritance if we choose it to be! He has given all a choice! He told me that when I was very down in life and crying because all I wanted was to feel the happiness I felt while on E all the time, asking why if it feels so good, why is it looked as being bad---that's when I learned that I knew it was not the way I should be walking, I knew it all along and like a baby hurt and trying to seek shelter from the world I opened up my heart and arms to him for him to pick me up and he has never let me down!
I'm not trying to change anyone's views or to impose them on anyone, everyone has the right to live the life they feel best for themselves, but let's not completely rule it out---because we can not see it or fathom it!
Spirituality is important too, it is the light glowing from the deepest part within ourselves, it is what makes us unique and SPECIAL!
PEACE
Skye*
 
Yes it is true while Science can explain almost everything, that is in the Physical form --in what we can SEE around us, what about the Spiritual form? Has everyone forgotten that the flesh dies? But flesh is just that--Flesh--our minds are what? Flesh in the physical form! What about our Souls? We all have one--Come on, you know that you have a soul, we are not just flesh! So faith is what we can not see but what we can FEEL! When you are on X--you FEEL--it's not just what you see around you. X opens a door I believe--I used to do it a lot, and everyone has the right to choose what's best for them, but for me I have chosen to (in faith) await something much greater and eternal. He told me it is all of our inheritance if we choose it to be! He has given all a choice! He told me that when I was very down in life and crying because all I wanted was to feel the happiness I felt while on E all the time, asking why if it feels so good, why is it looked as being bad---that's when I learned that I knew it was not the way I should be walking, I knew it all along and like a baby hurt and trying to seek shelter from the world I opened up my heart and arms to him for him to pick me up and he has never let me down!
I'm not trying to change anyone's views or to impose them on anyone, everyone has the right to live the life they feel best for themselves, but let's not completely rule it out---because we can not see it or fathom it!
Spirituality is important too, it is the light glowing from the deepest part within ourselves, it is what makes us unique and SPECIAL!
PEACE
Skye*
 
Yes it is true while Science can explain almost everything, that is in the Physical form --in what we can SEE around us, what about the Spiritual form? Has everyone forgotten that the flesh dies? But flesh is just that--Flesh--our minds are what? Flesh in the physical form! What about our Souls? We all have one--Come on, you know that you have a soul, we are not just flesh! So faith is what we can not see but what we can FEEL! When you are on X--you FEEL--it's not just what you see around you. X opens a door I believe--I used to do it a lot, and everyone has the right to choose what's best for them, but for me I have chosen to (in faith) await something much greater and eternal. He told me it is all of our inheritance if we choose it to be! He has given all a choice! He told me that when I was very down in life and crying because all I wanted was to feel the happiness I felt while on E all the time, asking why if it feels so good, why is it looked as being bad---that's when I learned that I knew it was not the way I should be walking, I knew it all along and like a baby hurt and trying to seek shelter from the world I opened up my heart and arms to him for him to pick me up and he has never let me down!
I'm not trying to change anyone's views or to impose them on anyone, everyone has the right to live the life they feel best for themselves, but let's not completely rule it out---because we can not see it or fathom it!
Spirituality is important too, it is the light glowing from the deepest part within ourselves, it is what makes us unique and SPECIAL!
PEACE
Skye*
 
Frat:
1)Your first statement is what's known as circular reasoning "If you believe it is true, you'll see it is true, and when you see it is true, you'll believe it is true".
2)You seem to have placed some sort of special significance on "Faith". Faith is not some kind of magical power, It's belief in something for which there is no supporting evidence.
3)Everyone who is religious shares your 'feelings' not just Christians. Which leads to the question: "How did you determine what you felt was the Christian God, and not something else?"
4)Where do Christians get off thinking you can't be happy without God? Life if full of ups and downs, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist or whatever.
5)If you don't believe a lot of stuff in the bible, why do you bother? Is it 5% true and 95% false, or the reverse? And how did you come to your conclusion. The Resurrection is just as unrealistic as Noah's ark and talking donkeys.
6)How do we 'choose' to let Satan into our lives? Romans 5:11 Stats clearly that our decent into sin was the result of Adam, and that ALL have sinned. It's central to Christian belief that we are born miserible sinners and need to seek salvation, not the reverse.
7)Romans 13:11 NRSV: "Let every person be subject to the governing athorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those athorities that exist have been instituted by God" Now who was it that is causing War?
Skye:
1) I'm assuming you mean "Heaven" when you refer to eternal life. Lets examine that: Rev. 12:7 there was a war in heaven, 19:14 there are indeed armies in heaven, Matt: 11:12 shows heaven is constantly suffering violence, Matt 11:11 shows inequality in heaven. Matt. 24:35 says "Heaven and earth shall pass away..." I could go on, but It doesn't sound like paradise.
2)Not everyone has any sort of choice for Salvation, not everyone has heard of Jesus. And since "All have sinned" they appear to be unfairly going to hell. John 3:18 is particularly harsh in this reguards, "He that believeth not is condemned already".
Ok I'll shut up now, but if your in the mood for an email discussion my mail is [email protected]
 
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