A very dark topic...Read at your own risk.

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this is a very entertaining post.
i like that the xians (oh yeah, and the muslims)are saying "THIS is how it IS" while the evil atheists and agnostics are saying " this MIGHT be it".
ack, i can't remember who used the term "buffeting" (or whatever, which was GREAT), but, has anyone noticed that it can be applied to this post? like the person who sad this post made them sad and they felt bad for the atheists (as if they want/need your pity!) b/c they didn't believe, and that they led such "NEGATIVE" lives. ugh...when it was already mentioned SEVERAL times that atheists can lead decent lives...you know by not attending matthew sheppard's funeral with a "god hates fags" sign. (dateline or some show did a show about women in the KKK and the one woman had her 5 year old holding a picket sign that had the words "anal sex" on it. struck me as "moral" and "christ-like")
and i really am very delighted that some bler's are willing to participate and encourage this discussion (which is NOT a fight).
i do have a ?uestion, though: is anyone familiar with any atheist/agnostic groups (do any even exist?) that have forced beliefs onto people? or told those who believe in jesus/god that they will be punished for that?
damn, i have learned more here than in my phil. class. GRATZI!
p.s. i have yet to read the sartre essay...eek
 
"It never says which day of the week"
Wait a minute, I thought you said it was Saturday?
Forget asking 10 different people and getting ten different answers, I can just ask you the same question 10 times and get 10 different answers!
smile.gif
 
"Since you're so fast to question God, why not question your educators?" - Turbo Monkey
We did, they're the same ones who taught YOU.
But the educators that you are actually referring to, are required to question each other.
That's how science works.
That's how we're able to have this conversation.
Welcome to evolution.
Isn't it beautiful?
If you need something to worship, worship THAT. It's done more for you than "God" ever did.
 
> No free will? Please.
> You can help someone out when they need a > hand or you can kill them by putting a 40
> caliber bullet through their skull, the > choice is yours.
So then which quality do you believe God does not have?
You clearly believe god exists, so we can skip that one.
Do you believe that God did not create the
world and all the things in it?
Do you believe that God doesn't know everything?
Do you believe that God is actually mostly
good, but a little bit bad as well (er not all good).
Or is it that contrary to popular belief that
God makes mistakes?
I ask, because if all of the assumptions I mentioned a yesterday are true, then God created the universe and earth and either man or the seeds of life that lead to our existence knowing that Hitler would rise to power and commit horrible attrocities, that Jeffery Daumer(sp) would find Gay men/boys tastey morsels and that the longest war in recorded history would be carried out in his name.
Why would God do this? It'd be one thing if God didn't know everything. Then you could say were just a big experiment or a Deity's version of a soap opera.
But if god doesn't know everything, then he utimately is fallable. And one of the main reasons for putting one's faith in God is that God is infallable.
I can see looking past this and still believing, since faith has nothing to do with logic. But to not even see a paradox that is blatantly obvious baffles me.
glowstick
 
*sigh*
I love play upon words.
What's the difference if He rested on Tuesday or Sunday? The 7th day could fall on any of those.
I think people overcomplicate very basic principles. It's "remember the sabbath and keep it holy" not "try to determine which day I rested suckers and rest on it or you're all going to hell."
God doesn't care to be analyzed, He just wants to be loved, which ironically, are two human principles. After all, he made us in his own image.
[This message has been edited by Turbo Monk (edited 24 July 2000).]
 
poopie-
I consider myself agnostic so you would consider me an evil atheist and agnostic(whatever).
Guess what, bud? I KNOW there is no God. I KNOW that when I die I will cease to exist except in the minds of those who knew me.
Here's a story. A few days ago, I picked up a stray kitten. He was extremely weak and starving so, I fed him, bathed him and gave him love. When I woke up the next morning he was dead on my bed, tangled in sheets and drenched in urine. I remebered how he was purring against my chest the night before, it really, really got to me. Then I thought about why he had to die. If there was a God what use would he have with a stray kitten's spirit? Would the cat have died if I'd never found it? What if? Everyone ponder those two words. Ask those two words about everything. What if my parents had never hooked up? Would I still exist? No, I fucking wouldn't! There are no god damn spirits! We're just fucking people! Get it through your fucking minds that there is no such thing as a fucking spirit!!! The little kitten died because of reasons I can't determine, it could've strangled itself under my weight and tangled in sheets, it could've eaten too much, it could've forgotten to breathe, but under no circumstance did some Godly power say it was time to die for the poor defenseless kitten. It pisses me off that people can believe in a righteous God that "loves" everyone when shit like this happens!
If there is a God and I'm wrong about believing there isn't one well, FUCK HIM! I would rather rot in the pits of Christian hell than be with the guy responsible for killing all the people I love. And I deeply mean it.
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Give every police officer, judge, and government official in the US a bean...And X will be legal.
 
DOWN BOY!
um, perhaps you didn't pick up on the sarcasm there.
let's get this straight, i wasn't calling atheists/agnostics evil, just mocking those who do hold that position. and, if you KNOW god doesn't exist, i thought that put you in the "atheist" (or perhaps, "firm disbeliever") category. heh.
now, i think anyone who claims whether or not they KNOW of the existence (or NONexistence, for that matter) is somewhat foolish, and maybe even arrogant.
although i do not believe in a "god", persay, i cannot rule out it's existence.
IF there is a higher being, i don't think we'll ever be able to completely understand it...how could we, with our mere mortal minds?! but, it's so enriching to discuss it.
one might say that that kitten died (and those who you knew, also) for the better (but that's always hard to understand, especially when it happened recently).
the question i posed in my post was sincere...i was hoping some of you phil./religion.history buffs could help a grrl out.
 
Necro, you just have to come to grips that most people live in a fantasy world. Not everyone is unplugged. Not everyone is ready to be unplugged.
smile.gif

This why I think the whole ecstasy culture is so important, it's unplugging people (well, most of them) and showing them that heaven IS available here on earth, WITHOUT religion. That the one thing that EVERYONE is looking for can be seen, by taking one little pill, and finding out that all you need is one silly acronym to define everything.
And of course, Necro, your last post reminded me of a quote:
"Millions cry themselves to sleep each night. Thousands are slain daily. Hatred is spawned by the minute. Resulting in an endless, pointless cycle. This isn't war. This is your reality. Where is your god now?" - Unknown
(BTW, I think Poopie was being sarcastic)
"God doesn't care to be analyzed, He just wants to be loved, which ironically, are two human principles. After all, he made us in his own image." - Turbo Monk
You have created such a cute little god!!
Well done Timmy.
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"Ecstasy, changing the way the world thinks.... one person at a time."
 
i think this shall one day become a famous quote...courtesy of *stasis*:
Faith is completely unnecessary except to make man feel better about the notion that
there is no purpose to his existence.
couple of more things...some people are now born w/o wisdom teeth...and it's pretty obvious that our appendixes (appendices??) our downright useless. is this not proof of evolution?
anyone else pretty sure that our environment/foodweb would function smoothly if humans were wiped out? but, if the vile cockroach were terminated, all hell would break loose? (my mom made me start thinking about that one..heh)
 
EACH STARTLING STORY WILL HURTLE YOU TO THE VERLY LIMITS OF THE HUMAN MIND.
EVERY TERRIFYING SOUND WILL FORCE YOU TO QUESTION YOUR VERY EXISTENCE.
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| |Don't Stop -|- It's the Real Sound| |
 
EACH STARTLING STORY WILL HURTLE YOU TO THE VERLY LIMITS OF THE HUMAN MIND.
EVERY TERRIFYING SOUND WILL FORCE YOU TO QUESTION YOUR VERY EXISTENCE.
------------------
| |Don't Stop -|- It's the Real Sound| |
 
this isn't directly related to any direct thread here so far, but I'm curious about something...
A few years ago, I had a roommate who was raised Baptist. He was a decent sort, kinda goofy, but friendly, honest and generous. One time, we got into a discussion about his beliefs, and he mentioned that "if you don't take the lord Jesus Christ into your life, you will burn in hell". That struck me as being rather odd coming from someone who seemed so decent otherwise. I asked him if that included myself, who had some doubts about the existence of god, and who definitely did not believe that Jesus Christ was god even if there was a god. He said "It's your choice..." looked at me sadly! and we ended our conversation.
I thought about that, and thought about the billions of Hindus, Muslims, Jews and others that make up a majority of the world's population, most of them are good people that were raised with different spiritual beliefs. If you are Christian, do you truly believe that all of these people will not go to "heaven"? If that's the case, what kind of exclusive place is this? What kind of god demands that you worship him in order to gain admittance? Is this belief just a reflection of your spiritual beliefs of the afterlife, or do you follow this in your earthly life i.e. anyone who is not Christian is inferior or leads a lesser life, is not happy, needs to be directed? Oh, those poor Muslims/Hindus/Atheists/Agnostics!
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"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality."
-Jules de Gautier
 
Techno Crisis...most people posting here agree that we will never definitively prove things one way or another in this forum. But why should that stop us from discussing it anyway? It's entertaining, it's fun, it's enlightening and educational. Strangely enough, I'm finding I'm learning more about myself by reading how other people feel. Relax, enjoy and participate!
 
this goes a bit in AJe's direction and is mainly directed to TurboMonk:
all your answers come from your christian belief system. as there are other "major" religions on this planet, people living/believing in these believe systems may give other answers, even if it's just the substitution of the word "god" by another word, like "allah".
now imaging yourself (just for a minute) as somebody who is standing outside of all those belief systems (like a newborn child)(or like a creature from outer space, if that provides enough distance to planet earth's belief systems). how would you answer some of the questions raised in this thread? it would be really nice if you would repost one of your previous replys from this standpoint. i don't question your beliefs, it would be just interesting to see, how "abstract" (dunno if this is the right word here) you can think about an issue...
much respect to all sides,
cmd
 
i once went through my days of believing in the judeo-christian god and then went through my days of having no god at all until i finally came to one conclusion. it may not be for all of you, but here it goes. i believe a supreme being exists that is neither male or female. God is too powerful a being to be restrained by sexual orientation. and most importantly to me.. we all find God when it is our time to find God. if you don't believe in God it's just because it isn't your time to find God. when you're ready you will. but everyone and everything will eventually find God because it's what we are all seeking and trying to fulfill through other means.. including x.. all roads evil or good lead to God
 
jesus sucks my dick for crack money... just thought id let u know. religion is a prison of the mind as well as body. free your mind. u dont need a fairytale to live a happy life.
-k
 
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