A very dark topic...Read at your own risk.

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why is it dark? why is it so depressing?
It's what I believe. Actually, I don't consider an afterlife. Now is all we know, so why should a new realization about something that has nothing to do with you depress you?
So god doesn't exist, so there is no heaven or hell. So what? Are you going to stop doing the things you were doing?
If anything it should give you strength to know that you have complete control over what you do and where you go.
 
Holy shit 6 pages! I left this party on page 2. someone call the cops. goto sleep people........
 
I agree with you, mxmim. I understand this is an extremely touchy subject, each individual has his/her own set of beliefs and I respect that.
Personally, I believe in God, Jesus, and every word of the Bible. I am a Christian (not all Christians are hypocrites, bad, etc.) and I truly believe God will come into one person's life at his/her own time. It angers me to see people trying to push God on someone, I guess because of experience. But I do know God is a loving God, although He doesn't approve of some of our actions, He still loves us unconditionaly. He isn't the one who made this world so complicated and bad...we are the ones to blame. God gives us a choice to accept Christ, He already knows that choice, but it is still the person's decision.
Well, I guess I'm the only one on the board who feels this way. That is my beliefs and I'm not putting down anyone else who doesn't agree with me. Just wanted to share my 2 cent.
-Jamie
smile.gif
 
Alright, I can't realy reply intelligently to this thread without reading all 6 fucking pages of it... But, I still want to throw in my lil' two cents cause I'm just cool like that.
My personal (yes, PERSONAL) proof that god is bullshit:
God is supposed to be perfect. HELLO!!! Why the fuck would a PERFECT being need creations to entertain him or creatures to love him? A perfect being would just spin forever in the void thinking the ONE THOUGHT; which I believe would be something like "wow, being perfect sure is fun."
I'm just gonna' state right here and now that if I get attacked for this view I'm not going to defend it any further. It's...................
PERSONAL!
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"The spirit-world doth open lie,
thy sense is shut; thy heart is dead.
Up, scholar, lave with courage-high
thine earthly breast in the morning red!" -Goethe
 
JB123
>But I do know God is a loving God...
>He isn't the one who made this world so >complicated and bad...we are the ones to >blame. God gives us a choice to accept >Christ, He already knows that choice, but it >is still the person's decision.
Not possible. How could it not be Gods fault? He created us and he knew what exactly he was creating and what would happen. If there's a God, there is likely no real choice. It may seem like a choice, but it's all preordained.
But then God is perfect, so God's Fault is an oxymoron.....yet the world is imperfect, and since gods perfect, the world can't be imperfect, unless he's not a perfectly good deity. But he's supposed to be perfectly good. I'm so confused!
I think i'll just choose no god. Any being comes up with a design this complicated and messed up clearly doesn't deserve my unconditional love....at least not until he/she/it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists and that he/she/it is God.
glowstick
"Why are we here? Becuse we're here. RTB"
 
JB123
>But I do know God is a loving God...
>He isn't the one who made this world so >complicated and bad...we are the ones to >blame. God gives us a choice to accept >Christ, He already knows that choice, but it >is still the person's decision.
Not possible. How could it not be Gods fault? He created us and he knew what exactly he was creating and what would happen. If there's a God, there is likely no real choice. It may seem like a choice, but it's all preordained.
But then God is perfect, so God's Fault is an oxymoron.....yet the world is imperfect, and since gods perfect, the world can't be imperfect, unless he's not a perfectly good deity. But he's supposed to be perfectly good. I'm so confused!
I think i'll just choose no god. Any being comes up with a design this complicated and messed up clearly doesn't deserve my unconditional love....at least not until he/she/it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists and that he/she/it is God.
glowstick
"Why are we here? Becuse we're here. RTB"
 
Glowstick, you rock.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
 
God as a perfect entity chose to create other nonperfect beings because God chose to behold God. It's mathematics. 1 and 0 united to create enough energy and create the universe.. 0 = infinity.. If you became zero you would be infinite and all observant (God).. and it goes by these fundamental laws.
1. The universe exists
2. Laws of the universe exist(order of the universe is self selection bias)
3. Fundamental physics constants exist. (constants appear in equations that represent the laws of the universe)
4. Universe is expanding closely to the physical rate.(expansion rate is greater than or equal to the cristical rate)
5. Life exists in the universe.
6. Intelligent life exists in the universe.
By these laws:
Anthropic Principle
1. Past, present and future state of the universe is sensitive to valuse of fundamental physics constants and initial state of the universe.
2. If the valuse of fundamental physics constants or the initial conditions were outside a small range, the life(and intelligent life) would not have arisen the universe (universe would have been very different from what it is observed to be) universes like ours would be commonplace everywhere.
Weak Anthropic Principle (wap)
Life is forbidden in a universe except for a small range of valuse of fundamental physics constants and initial conditions.
Strong Anthropic Principle (sap)
Wap and the affirmation that the values of fundamental physics constants and initial constants are restricted to those ranges that alow the emergence of life.
Particopatory Anthropic Principle (pap)\
Wap or Sap and the affirmation that intelligent observers are necessary for the existence of the universe.
Final Anthropic Principle (fap)
Wap or Sap and the affirmation that once intelligence exists it will never perish.
In normal terms. Something intelligent had to be there to observe the Big Bang otherwise it would not have happened. The 0 is the intelligent being and the 1 is us and all around us in the universe.
 
allright, so where does the 0 being come from? is it a "perfect" 1 from another universe?
if so (or if not), who is the creator of mr. zero?
getting confused here...
 
I asked that very same question in school, the teacher couldn't answer it, booted me from class, so I got sent to the pastor and dean.
The response I got... as humans we only comprehend a beginning and an endpoint [birth and death] we can't comprehend an entitity that always is, was, and always will be, it doesn't fit our linear perspective on life as we know it.
 
So then, if something is incomprehensible, then it exists necessarily?
Try brushing up a bit on your logic.
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
There is no God.
At least not the so-called "God of love" of the Christian religion.
You can believe in this God if you want, I really don't care. If it makes you feel better and gives purpose to your life, by all means, go ahead and believe. If it gives you structure and morality in your life, then good for you. If it helps you in any way or gives you the motivation to get out of bed every morning, then I applaud you.
But don't tell me God actually exists. And that I need to believe in him or else burn forever in hell.
I've already been to hell. I'm manic-depressive, and let me tell you, I've seen both heaven and hell- extreme highs, extreme lows, bursts of insanity randomly mixed in with sanity, and much much more. I've been on the brink of death before and had it look appealing. I don't know much, but one thing I DO know. And that is, I would never ever wish this feeling upon any human being. Ever. My best friend is also manic-depressive, and let me tell you, if I had the power within me to make her well and never cry again, even if it meant giving up my own sanity for hers, I would do it in a second.
God has that power. If he is all-powerful like you say. And God is supposed to be a God of love. So tell me something Turbo Monk or anyone else on here:
WHERE THE FUCK IS GOD???
 
Firstly...i think about death the majority of my waking hours. I had a heart transplant 7 years ago and now i am obsessed with death.
Anyway...
I think the question has a few prongs. I think namely it is possible to believe in a creator and not in a specific relegion. I also believe that one can believe in a creator and not an afterlife. Now, i think it is unfair to assume that becuz we cannot see or explain G-d logically that we should obviously come to the conclusion that he does not exist. When i was up late at night thinking about this I began to think about the Ant. An ant cannot fathom that we drive cars, drink coffee, have jobs or post on BL. An ant's mind is incapable of processing this type of thought. Perhaps our human brains cannot fathom the type of process the energy or power a creator uses. The "logic" of the creator has to be different than hours. It's immposible to relate to something above you. You cant make our brains work on a diffrent plane, like an ant cannot understand that the foot that smashes him is attached to a human. everything we see here on earth has a maker, everything. Human brains also cannot fathom the idea that something comes from nothing. the idea of nothing is immposible to comprehend. Einsten said "matter cannot be created nor destroyed". All matter in our universe is here forever and was always here, it can only be converted into differnt matter or energy. Who put the original matter here? Did it just pop into existence?? I persoannly cannot explain it. In addition that whole satan thing is BS ( in my humble opinion). No dark angel makes people do bad things. in everyones mind is a good inclination and a bad inclination. Free will is what makes us people. Relegion to me is a seperate topic, but the possibiliy of a creator seems likely to me. However, the idea of the son of G-d and all that stuff insults my intelegence (it's just my opinion - please dont take offene). I tell myslef to listen to my good inclination and to enjoy life becuz I do not know if there is an afterlife. I have never seen a ghost etc... But i do see magic in the world. Go see what some martial artists can do and u swear it is real magic...I dunno...i guess to sum up the creator seems likely to me.
[This message has been edited by boytictak (edited 28 July 2000).]
 
First of all the christian god isnt the "God of love" it is the "judgmental God". It is a God which they very much created in order to justify the horrendous travisties they have committed in our history. I wont get into the Holy Crusades, or the invention of a 'pope' or even all the little bits and pieces Christians stole from other relgions (which includes most of the concepts of love). But as an example, when the spanish first went into the americas to look for the seven fabled cities of gold, they justified it by saying it is the will of god.
When they came upto indian villages, they would say "fall on your knees and accept Jesus or we shale know you as satan worshippers and you shale be killed." And that is pretty much the exact quote. Who ever fell on their knees were taken as slaves and sent to work camps, everyone else was killed. The God of love? -BAH! I'd say its more a political power then anything else. It classifies the world as "us" and "them" in order to justify raping, killing, torturing other people while at the same time alienating its own followers from the population in order to reaffirm control. This is still happening today.
But where is God? If you ask me you will have more luck learning about god from those Indians who were captured then christians. All those cultures and religions oppressed and wiped out by christianity over the years, they are the ones that know of God. And Christianity has left us with an empty shell.
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We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem
 
The Crusades:
The goal was to launch a counterattack against the Seljuk Turks [a Muslim power that had begun actively attacking peaceful Christian pilgrims traveling to Jerusalem] in Anatolia then defeat the Muslims in Syria and Palestine and eventually retake Jerusalem from the Egyptians.
It was the Christians who were oppressed and under attack. I do hope by now you know the difference between a counterattack and acts of terrorism.
 
Um yeah.. Goal of the childrens crusades.. To sell children off to the Slavers to fund the next crusades.
Oh then there was the 4th crusade that ended up Pillaging constinontipol (sp?) which was the capital of the church that the time. And if memeory serves me correctly they even put a whore called mary on the popes chair during the celebration of their victory.
Man, u can use what ever reasing u want. But you cant explain how cutting open the guts of the dead civilians to look for swallowed jewelry is the work of God.
Oh, and there's the making up of the pope to better control the population. There is no ancient scrolls that said we needed a pope, and jesus certainly didnt mention it. But the church made up the rule that says "the pope is never wrong cause he is holy and gets his orders directly from god."
l respect and admire the current pope, and especially what he has done for poland. But what of the popes in the past that had sex with their own sisters? and other whores? and did many other 'evil' deeds all of which r documented.
Oh, and has anyone noticed how the being called satan and the worship known as satanism didnt come into our history until after the christian church came into power?
 
Turbo Monk: Do you actually believe that the Crusades would have occured if they were not profitable? There was huge amounts of wealth to be gained, and the Christians wanted it.
 
Turbo monk: Yeah, a counter attack is when we do it. An act of terrorism is when they do it.
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We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem
 
Hey...to everyone who thinks there is not a GOD, and that man created GOD...
Could you please send me some RAIN for my lawn, ummm...purify the atmosphere with some good ole man made electricity, explain to me how the hell man created the living cycle we all participate in and have enjoyed for quite some time...water, food, oxygen & etc. and also explain to me why, if mankind is so intelligent to create everything in the beginning then why is everyone at odds with each other over this topic? I just don't understand why no one has yet been able to explain any of these things to me...but since those of you that say there is no GOD...are so sure of yourselves...and seem to have developed some kind of knowledge that has convinced you of this...then please fully EXPLAIN YOURSELVES and don't forget my lawn needs some RAIN!!!
THANKS with LOTS OF PLUR*
smile.gif

Skye*
 
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