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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

4-Fluoroamphetamine

Treacle said:
Where is the research showing that MDMA is even neurotoxic in humans? The only studies I've ever seen have been shown to be flawed. The most recent study has shown no cognitive impairment in MDMA users, so it can't be causing much damage whatsoever, if it is.
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The studies are gonna be reported on in 2 completely different ways from both poles of the argument..

Some studies show that SERT densitys return to near normal levels but as far as i know it's accepted that 5-ht axons, while the DO grow back, grow back incorrectly. What this means in terms of emotional stability / intelligence, i don't know. Also, the studies do not indicate to what degree the users were abusing MDMA, if it was just MDMA, and alot of other things i believe would be seriously relevant to wether or not MDMA is neurotoxic.

It seems to be generally accepted that it can be.
 
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Treacle said:
So, instead of being a cocky, know-it-all cunt, try providing some information, instead of running your fucking mouth..
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You are the one running your mouth here, not me. There was a link to an article in my post, so did I or did I not provide information!? Your response had nothing to do with the original statement I was adressing, nor was it closely related to my answer. Did you even bother to click the link and browse the abstract? MDMA is actually mentioned in the article as a positive control for the neurotoxicity of other compounds...OUCH!

To me, you are the one acting like 'I only found bogus articles and now there's one study that didn't find cognitive impairment so MDMA won't cause any damage whatsoever'. Not really the attitude of someone looking for information to form a balanced opinion; more the attitude of someone frustrating my attempt to help someone else. I did not regard your post as a genuine information request, but more like just making a statement and taunting me to prove you wrong. So unless you can persuade me you were genuinely interested in information, I'll just remain arrogant and egotistical in my ivory tower, with all the articles you need at my disposal.

^ I would go with a dose of 120mg - 140mg.
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Personally, I'd suggest a starting dose of 80-120 mg. While 80 mg might not be enough to tickle the hot spot for at least 50 per cent, the more sensitive people will feel really fucked up on 140 mg. So in light of 'better safe than sorry', I always opt for 80-100 mg at the first try, sometimes 120 mg in people likely to be less sensitive.
 
Er, the link you provided in your original post was about MDAI, so why would I have looked at it? We are talking about MDMA here. Look, I've read tons of stuff about MDMA neurotoxicity, and a lot of the studies 'proving' that it is in fact neurotoxic have been debunked. Stuff like primates being given huge IV doses, and the like. http://www.thedea.org is an excellent site for reading about the debate. I agree that it could be, if the dose was large enough, but not always. Anyway, this isn't the thread for this (as you keep saying), so let's just forget it, unless you want to start a new thread for a debate. There are plenty about already, and the general answer is that people don't know.
 
I've not heard much about MDMA causing heart problems. I've certainly never heard of any users claiming such. Not that it hasn't happened, of course. Compared to things like tobacco and cocaine, the risk must be quite low for heart problems. It's a shame to think that something so wonderful can cause serious problems (not that me or anyone else I know has come across these).
 
I dropped 150 mgs of mdma crystal last month and my heart was banging like a goodun.

Make of it what you will, but it doesnt sound as healthy as going for a bike ride or jog TBH, lol
 
^ Noone said it was, it is a stimulant so by definition it will increase heart rate considerably above baseline... high bpm by itself does not equate to cardiotoxicity though.

However mdma is a 5-ht(2b) agonist from what i remember so it is damaging to the heart to some unknown extent, subjectively a lot less so than the majority of other widely used stimulants imho.
 
IRL.icecoolmadness said:
However mdma is a 5-ht(2b) agonist from what i remember so it is damaging to the heart to some unknown extent, subjectively a lot less so than the majority of other widely used stimulants imho.
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MDMA is a 5-HT2B agonist yes, as is one of its most toxic metabolites: MDA. ARTICLE

However, although I don't really mind derailing a thread, this should be about 4-FMP and not about MDMA. Perhaps someone can open a MDMA + 5-HT2B thread, so we can take the discussion elsewhere?

Er, the link you provided in your original post was about MDAI, so why would I have looked at it?
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I didn't mean to say you should have. But if you had, you would have seen that MDMA was actually the positive control for neurotoxicity. So by definition any compound from that study that was reported to be less neurotoxic, was less neurotoxic than MDMA itself.

unless you want to start a new thread for a debate
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I'd suggest to take it to PM. Opening a thread will just end up like all the other threads, with the MDMA fanboys and e-tards claiming it is all a conspiracy, and the majority of the posters with an academic background with a lot of stress and frustration...
 
Oh, right. So you think because you're an academic, that you have the real answer to the question? Do you think that other people can't read? I've agreed already that it MIGHT be neurotoxic in high doses, but I don't believe it's substantial enough to cause any cognitive issues (I know this from personal use). I'd rather die than have a debate about it via PM with you. I've never claimed it's ALL a conspiracy - I just don't believe a lot of the studies that were government funded. Do you blame me? Drop it now, because you're coming across as a proper dick. If you want a thread opened about the issue, then why does someone else have to do it? Do it yourself, if you care so much. I've never known anyone who has had any problems from MDMA. I'm done with the matter.
 
Other than 1 post last year, I haven't posted since 2004.

I am coming out of retirement to request that if you have something to discuss that does not pertain to the topic of this thread, that would be 4-Fluoroamphetamine for those of you who have forgotten, please begin another thread or find another ongoing discussion. Please keep this on topic.

Thank you.
 
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Recluse said:
Has any one tried it? If so how strong are the effects?
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I took an adulterated pill that was reported to be high MDMA on pillreports. The Zurich test center says it had a high dose of 4-FA.

Come up felt weird, no rushes and took an hour and a half to come up. I felt pretty clear headed but introspective and a bit empathetic. Crazy chewing and wanted to talk a lot but not happy/love or any of the best effects of MDMA. Kind of sad really.

Reminded me of that gray crystal that made its rounds last year that turned marquise black with a fizz. It missed something, a lot of us speculated it was MDEA, still not convinced it wasn't.
 
Right, had to unapprove some posts. Only one of them was dodgy, but two responses had to go too.

Thanks to the members who stepped in to warn the guy attempting to source - you know who you are.

As for the offender, a warning has been issued. On a minor note maybe someone should have used the report button on this one, as it was only by chance I came across it.

Carry on (minus the solicitation) ... :)
 
In my experience I do not think 4-fa is really something worth buying. Especially as a replacement for mephedrone. There is not really any euphoria to speak of, and it is not really like mdma at all.

I tried every kind of dose and hadn't touched mdma in over 2 months. the source was reliable and others had recommended their product.

I don't understand all the good comments about this drug, it just eleveate my heart rate. It wasn even very useful as a study aid.
 
fluffybudzz said:
I don't understand all the good comments about this drug, it just eleveate my heart rate. It wasn even very useful as a study aid.
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As a player in the RC-game, you should always remember rule i.e. lesson #1: Every individual reacts different to every substance. So although it is your right to share your own experiences with 4-FMP, I don't think it is really contributing anything to question other peoples experiences/comments. Not everyone likes soccer, not everyone votes republican, not everyone appreciates 4-FMP.
 
3rd_I_blind said:
As a player in the RC-game, you should always remember rule i.e. lesson #1: Every individual reacts different to every substance. So although it is your right to share your own experiences with 4-FMP, I don't think it is really contributing anything to question other peoples experiences/comments. Not everyone likes soccer, not everyone votes republican, not everyone appreciates 4-FMP.
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sorry, i think you got the wrong end of the stick. i just said i didn understand why the comments were all so positive. i never questioned anyones personal experiences, i just gave my opinion.

didn mean to cause a ruccus ;P.
 
Rule #2 (I think it should be #1!) for RCs:
Don't treat them as replacements for things which already exist. That's not what they're supposed to be, no matter how vendors hype them. Nor can they live up to that hype.
 
Transform said:
Rule #2 (I think it should be #1!) for RCs:
Don't treat them as replacements for things which already exist. That's not what they're supposed to be, no matter how vendors hype them. Nor can they live up to that hype.
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That wouldn't really work tho as the vast majority of them are analogues of some of our favourites:

mdai -mdma
mpa - meth (not a fav tho obviously)
mxe - ket
25c - acid

We probably shouldn't treat them as such but that is certainly what they are marketed as
 
fluffybudzz said:
We probably shouldn't treat them as such but that is certainly what they are marketed as
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No real problem here, as long as people realize they are cousins and not identical twins. ;)

It would also be strange if the RCs were marketed without a reference to an established substance; no one would know what to expect. BTW, is MDAI really marketed as an MDMA-analogue? If I'm not mistaken, around here it was more linked to MDA than to MDMA. However, I never really dug deep into the MDAI; MDMA hardly interests me, let alone some lower-potency RC MDMA-analogue.
 
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