2-D/Digital/Photoshop Art Discussion

[wesmdow]

i dont want them in the thread because edited photos are not original art!

its that simple.

its not insulting, its not rude, its just the way i feel.

YES, you can use photoshop to make original art, although it isnt the ideal program for it, seeing as its a photo editor.

and once you can do anything with photoshop, yes, you do have rather unlimited creative potential, within the limits of photoshops buttons and filters.

the same argument can be made against classic art as well, but it doesnt stand up so well because it takes a LOT more training, practice, hours, etc to reach that same level with classic mediums.

and why are you letting ego loss insult me, but forcing me to hold my tongue?

 

[SA]

i feel that photoshop is not generally (you CAN do it) a MEDIUM in and of itself. you need images in it to manipulate.

You most certainly do not need a starting image. You can start with a blank canvas, just as in the "REAL" art world you speak of. Dude, wake up. It's 2007! Why are you stuck in 1807? I grew up surrounded by some of the best art in the world myself. Museums were a weekly feature. Summer and winter palaces were weekly trips. You don't need to explain the differences of one versus the other to me. I do not, however, dismiss the mediums of today, or favour them any more or less than the mediums of yesterday.

and why are you letting ego loss insult me, but forcing me to hold my tongue?

There is a difference between criticism and ad homs.

 

[wesmdow]

but you DO recognize a difference.

notice how 3-d art isnt included as well?

its not because i dont have respect for sculpture--in fact i AM a sculptor--its just that because of the difference in the 2, i feel its unfair to those who prefer to use the old school methods, due to the time and effort put into their work.

i mean, look at chrissies photo. it kicks ass no doubt.

then look at mz_thizzles, QE's, or my entry, to name a few. the effort put into works like that is significantly larger than the time and energy expended on making a few minor alterations to a badass photograph.

do you at least see where im coming from?

i want the thread to be about classic art. how about we change the title of mine, and then bM's thread can encompass any kind of artwork, photoshop, mspaint, w/e.

maybe call it something along the lines of "classic 2-d art thread,"

and i suppose ill have to set down some more limits to the mediums allowed...

 

[wesmdow]

and seriously, why is ego loss being allowed to be an ass while i get chastized???? mind answering that? MUST i report him to get an answer? i hate doing that.....

also what do you think of the rules i set down. fair?

 

[ego_loss]

im not hating on photoshop, i have no idea where you picked that up.

I think I got that idea from you making statements like:

i just think it is not a legit way to create NEW art. its an EDITOR. you EDIT images, not create them.

... often in the same sentence where you try to say that you aren't hating on it.

I mean, there are so many flaws to that line of thinking that it's hard for me to know where to begin.

If you only use Photoshop to edit shit, fine. I rarely use it to edit photos. In fact a majority of what I do is totally original. I have used it to create logos (including one that was used in the BL header for a couple years), I use it to design fonts, I use it for web graphics, I use it for all sorts of things. That is the source of my issue with you. You express yourself with paint, I express myself with pixels. If your idea of art is based entirely upon the medium then you really have no place calling yourself an artist... you are simply someone who can paint.

 

[ego_loss]

and seriously, why is ego loss being allowed to be an ass while i get chastized???? mind answering that? MUST i report him to get an answer? i hate doing that.....

also what do you think of the rules i set down. fair?

I'm not allowed to be an ass. I don't know if you've noticed, but mods have been editing my posts as well.

 

[SA]

but you DO recognize a difference.

As already pointed out, I am aware of the difference.

notice how 3-d art isnt included as well?

umm... the contest is called 2-D Art. Did I miss something?

its not because i dont have respect for sculpture--in fact i AM a sculptor--its just that because of the difference in the 2, i feel its unfair to those who prefer to use the old school methods, due to the time and effort put into their work.

i mean, look at chrissies photo. it kicks ass no doubt.

then look at mz_thizzles, QE's, or my entry, to name a few. the effort put into works like that is significantly larger than the time and energy expended on making a few minor alterations to a badass photograph.

do you at least see where im coming from?

Yes. You are again trivialising one form of art over/under another.

i want the thread to be about classic art. how about we change the title of mine, and then bM's thread can encompass any kind of artwork, photoshop, mspaint, w/e.

You should have named your thread Classical Art On Paper or Canvas or something of the sort right from the beginning.

maybe call it something along the lines of "classic 2-d art thread,"

and i suppose ill have to set down some more limits to the mediums allowed...

Perhaps you should make sure all chips are in place before proceeding onto the the next round.

P.S. I have edited all art threads to follow the same format. Please follow that format in the future. It makes for a cleaner board and makes it easier to find these threads now and in the future. Thanks. (thanks to alasdairm for that suggestion)

 

[wesmdow]

see you have a misconception about what i mean.

(and why photoshop for creating? arent there better software programs out there with features better suited to creation?)

i am trying to point out the difference here. without a photo, youd be hard pressed to make an image in photoshop to meet the requirements of the thread. hence, this is editing.

also, web graphics and fonts are technically art, but not the KIND of art, the genre, that i was trying to get people to enter in the contest.

i REALLY have to go to work now. i will continue this debate later. however, unless SA takes away my thread, no photography of any kind is allowed after round 3, so there may not be a point in debating as i agree with you in principle.

 

[DG]

Just wondering...so if it wasnt just a photoshopped image you wouldnt have an issue with 'digital art'?

What about if someone submits something they drew in Illustrator?

 

[SA]

i will continue this debate later. however, unless SA takes away my thread...

You need to shake that boogey man off your back, man. Seriously. And I don't mean me.

 

[wesmdow]

i trivialize it because of the effort/time spent. and i readily admit it.

it isnt fair to compare the 2, because one photoshop produces much better results much faster, with less effort.

its still real art, just not what im looking for.

this is the first time ive done anything like this, and BOY are yall roasting me for it!

SA will you rename the thread titles?

"bluelight weekly 2-d non-digital art contest"

^does that sound descriptive enough?

 

[wesmdow]

You need to shake that boogey man off your back, man. Seriously. And I don't mean me.

what does that mean?

if i recall you took over someone elses threada while back,... maybe im mistaken.

i do reckon you could just close the thread and tell me not to make more, which is what i was getting at.

unless you DO DO that, no photos allowed.

 

[SA]

8(

I guess I might as well go do the witch's float test. LOL

 

[wesmdow]

so youre closing it because i wont allow photos?

sean already made a photoshop only thread, which i think is kinda cool.

and mazdans is also cool.

is that what youre implication is tho? youre closing my thread?

 

[wesmdow]

you know sarcasm doesnt convey well over the net due to the lack of body language and vocal tone, so it may seem obvious to you what you mean, but i have not a bloody clue.

also im american, so if youre not that might explain why i am clueless. britain/australia have such a different dialect....

 

[ego_loss]

i feel its unfair to those who prefer to use the old school methods, due to the time and effort put into their work.

Which do you think more time and effort
This painting or this MSPaint piece?

 

[SA]

so youre closing it because i wont allow photos?

sean already made a photoshop only thread, which i think is kinda cool.

and mazdans is also cool.

is that what youre implication is tho? youre closing my thread?

LOL. My implication is that I made no implications whatsoever. You have accused, tried and convicted me of doing something I hadn't even thought of. The only thread I've closed here recently was the other "debate" one you started this morning, in which I referred you back to this thread.

 

[wesmdow]

o i musta been trippin on that.

you still could close my thread tho, if you disagreed with my rules.

thats what i was getting at. i know you didnt imply it, but it STILL COULD (technically) happen. thats all i was getting at.

you also read too much into things.... lol.

 

[wesmdow]

Which do you think more time and effort
This painting or this MSPaint piece?

tell me where i said ALL paintings are good, or ALL digital art is bad.

obviously it isnt the case.

however in round 1, it was an issue.

thats why i wanted to leave it at "significantly altered," and yours met the requirement (IMO), but chrissies did not.

and as such, it isnt fair to allow for photos since people can just do what chrissie did.

 

[QuestionEverything]

I can't believe how out of hand this has gotten. I mean, in all seriousness, Wesmdow - I gave you huge props for trying to start something like this up considering that many of us talked about it but never actually put anything into action. Beyond that though, I really think you have got to stop thinking of this as yours.

Is this not something that you want others to want to participate in? If it is, you are going to have to take others' opinions into consideration. The contests aren't here to please just you, they're here for the community right? They are supposed to be fun; that's quickly diminished.

It's 2 dimensional art, that includes any flat medium (with the exception of photography because of the other thread and contest rules already established and agreed on).

I am an artist, I work in many, many mediums, and I find it utterly ridiculous for someone else to try and tell me that my digital art is not as valid as my oil paintings on canvas. Truly, if you've never spent massive amounts of time in photoshop, illustrator, indesign, etc. - then I don't think you have the experience to even begin to make a judgment like that.

i trivialize it because of the effort/time spent. and i readily admit it. it isnt fair to compare the 2, because one photoshop produces much better results much faster, with less effort.

It's nothing for me to spend weeks on digital art, just like I do my paintings and drawings. Digital art isn't easier, it's different, but not easier, and to make a statement that implies that artists working digitally spend less time and effort on their work is completely inaccurate, and to be quite honest, only tells me that the person making the comment really doesn't have a clue about creating art in those programs in the first place. That's not a personal attack, but really, maybe you only use photoshop to edit photos, but that's certainly not all it's capable of, so if that's truly what you believe, you're just wrong.

its still real art, just not what im looking for.

Again, you asked for 2-d art, which includes any medium. If you're going to pick and choose what you want based on your own preferences this isn't going to manifest into anything positive.

this is the first time ive done anything like this, and BOY are yall roasting me for it!

I hope you don't really feel that way. The problem is that everyone tries discussing and offering advice, but you really come off abrasive and with the attitude that it's your contest and nothing anyone else says matters to you.