2-D/Digital/Photoshop Art Discussion

[ShaDDoW]

This is being "artistic and meaningful"? bM, you're not helping matters with your argument, especially the "second opinion" part.

Yes. And if you don't like my art, don't vote for it. It's that simple.

I'm not harassing anyone or causing shit. I'm having simple fun with a contest, while abiding by the rules.

You don't need to fight to take the fun out of things. It's ok to smile once in a while. It won't hurt, I promise.

 

[SA]

You don't need to fight to take the fun out of things. It's ok to smile once in a while. It won't hurt, I promise.

I can understand how you could have reached that conclusion, since you're used to seeing things through Lounge glasses, as that is where you dwell most, but I assure you that I have yet to crack a frown on any of this. The smile has not left my face since last night.

 

[ego_loss]

Let's all just agree that, as far as art related threads on BL go, Catch-22 is the one to blame. If it weren't for him, I would still be helping to maintain an iron rule over Visual & Performing Arts, where the word "art" wasn't so completely subjective that it could be separated into half a dozen different contest threads.

Anyways, my main point has always been that photoshop is no less valid of an art medium than paint or pencil. [edited]

 

[wesmdow]

you know what ego loss, just because YOU like to work in photoshop doesnt mean its what the thread is about.

its like me entering a photorealistic painting inthe photo thread.'

i NEVER dissed photoshop as a form of art, athough honestly it takes much less talent, and more technical skill.

i actively work with both of the mediums.... my thread ISNT ABOUT PHOTOS.

the more i thought about it, the more i want it to be REAL WORLD ART. WHY is that SUCH an issue with you?!

so, to satisfy YOU, basically, blissfulmenace went through the effort of making a photoshop ONLY thread.

THEN you bitch about too many art threads--theres just no satisfying you.

enter the photoshop contests, lets see how good you really are.

and stop insulting me. make your own thread if you think im so incompitent... o wait! youd rather just bitch than actually DO work.

lol its funny cuz its reflected by your choice of mediums aswell. photoshop is by far the easiest method of making a badass piece of art in the shortst amount of time.

theres a thread for each kind of art form, and then some. the more cluttered this forum gets, the more likely an art forum WILL be reopened.

wtf is your problem? its like youre just trying to cause conflict, blaming others because you cant follow guidelines.

[last warning]

 

[wesmdow]

they belong in an art thread.. because theyre artistic and meaningful, even if theyre not skilled..

not to mention hes posting it there to get a second opinion on his work not for his art to get assraped.. everything in the lounge gets assraped

i agree--a thread for humour art/comic strips/funny ORIGINAL images would be an awsome contest, also suited for SO.

the lounge is too... i dunno how to say this w/o being offensive, but its a worthless forum from which absolutely nothing is gained. its good for a laugh now and then, or to see camwhores post naked pics.

its NOT good for art threads, it wouldnt be taken seriously (even funny things lol) because no one gives a fuck about anything in that forum.

and the more art threads that compile here and continue to work will encourage the opening of an art forum, which there really should be already.

 

[SA]

i NEVER dissed photoshop as a form of art, athough honestly it takes much less talent, and more technical skill.

To insinuate that it takes less skill to use Photoshop than a brush and 12 tubes of paint is not only insulting, but highly inaccurate.

i actively work with both of the mediums.... my thread ISNT ABOUT PHOTOS.

the more i thought about it, the more i want it to be REAL WORLD ART. WHY is that SUCH an issue with you?!

So, it is not OK for me to object to Lounge-like mspaint art alongside serious art, yet it is OK for you to entirely dismiss one medium? A bit hypocritical, aren't we?

theres a thread for each kind of art form, and then some. the more cluttered this forum gets, the more likely an art forum WILL be reopened.

WRONG! If this is the mindset which you set out with - to clutter this forum with as many "art" threads as possible in the hopes of getting an Arts forums as soon as possible - I can tell you right now that, in my humble opinion, you will fail.

its like youre just trying to cause conflict, blaming others because you cant follow guidelines.

What ARE the guidelines? It is still unclear which mediums are allowed and which aren't... and WHY. You can't just say "Not allowed" and present "photoshop is for slackers" as your argument and expect that to be accepted as the rule. You can't just make up and change rules to suit your fancy; you can't change contest deadlines to suit your schedule. To put it bluntly, this is not your contest, just as it will not be your Arts forum, if there ever will be one at this rate. When was the last time you asked for an opinion from the contestants/participants/Bluelighters. All I have heard to date is "me, me, me".

Make a valid case for your rule(s), quit with the insults and let's get on with paving a path to an Arts forum... if you still want one.


P.S. That was the last soft warning regarding insults. Next one will count.

 

[wesmdow]

To insinuate that it takes less skill to use Photoshop than a brush and 12 tubes of paint is not only insulting, but highly inaccurate.

So, it is not OK for me to object to Lounge-like mspaint art alongside serious art, yet it is OK for you to entirely dismiss one medium? A bit hypocritical, aren't we?

i actually supported the idea of mspaint created art in the 2-d art thread. i dunno where you got that impression. if you want to create something in photoshop or mspaint, by all means, do it. i just dont like the idea of editing a photo and calling it original artwork. i will be more specific in the future. bare in mind, this is the first time ive tried anything like this... so im learning as i go.

as far as painting vs photoshop goes? im going to have to disagree with you there. theres no CTRL z in real life. photoshop is much more forgiving. like i said ive done both. painting is more difficult--as is drawing. actually drawing/painting the line is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult than manipulating a set of tools. there is math behind photoshop and logic, effects are created via mathematical equations.

real life art on the other hand requires practice and skill--you cant just draw something the way QE did. with photoshop, you could take a photo and emulate that in 10 minutes.

photoshop is just a totally different thing--apples and oranges. its for a different purpose than other 'classic' mediums, which really require practice and training.

i changed the rule. i think thats fair, given this was just round 1, and i didnt even consider this issue when making the rules.

WRONG! If this is the mindset which you set out with - to clutter this forum with as many "art" threads as possible in the hopes of getting an Arts forums as soon as possible - I can tell you right now that, in my humble opinion, you will fail.

seems to me that a lot of people showing a vested, long-term interest in these multiple art threads is the best way to prove that an art forum would be successful. "clutter" was a bad word choice.

What ARE the guidelines? It is still unclear which mediums are allowed and which aren't... and WHY. You can't just say "Not allowed" and present "photoshop is for slackers" as your argument and expect that to be accepted as the rule.

i said any medium except for an OBVIOUSLY too vague description of photoshop. again, ive fixed this.

You can't just make up and change rules to suit your fancy; you can't change contest deadlines to suit your schedule. To put it bluntly, this is not your contest, just as it will not be your Arts forum, if there ever will be one at this rate.

when i made the thread, i didnt have a job--then i got 2 that week. the night it was supposed to end i worked untill midnight and was exhausted--with another double shift starting the next morning. im not perfect, but job takes precidence over bluelight, IMO.

youre right, it isnt my contest. but i did set the rules and do the leg work. (unless making polls is difficult? i honestly have no idea).

When was the last time you asked for an opinion from the contestants/participants/Bluelighters. All I have heard to date is "me, me, me".

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=307458 - i didnt A) know that all contests had to follow that format.

B) i was suggesting a positive change, not a negative one.

C) i didnt notice the other thread untill i saw that link.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=303318

well, theres 2 examples of where i asked for others opinions....

whens the last time you asked?

Make a valid case for your rule(s), quit with the insults and let's get on with paving a path to an Arts forum... if you still want one.


P.S. That was the last soft warning regarding insults. Next one will count.

ive got a solid set of rules down, its in the second round. here they are:
1) images must not already be in the bluelight gallery. lets keep this fresh.ia behinf this thread is PHYSCAL MANIPULATION of any medium.

2) the thread will stay open for a week (i can do it this time, got my schedule down), closing at midnight (approximately) a week after its started.

3 images are limited to 700x700. any image larger needs to either be linked, or it is disqualified.

4) no photographs. edited or unedited. now there is a suitable thread for your edited photoshop pictures here. as far as other mediums go: as long as it is 2-d (you can put in a scanner, although obviouly taking a picture is more practical), it goes. crayones, pastels, paint (oil and acrylic), engravings, and the like.

5) pieces of photos in a piece are acceptable. collages are acceptable. using photoshop to 'touch up' your original piece is OK as well.

6)please include the original dimensions of the work, the mediums used, and any other info you feel is relevant.

7) voting will take place during the weekend, ending at midnight on tuesday. please, dont vote for your own entry 8)

P.S. warn me if you want to.

 

[ego_loss]

as far as painting vs photoshop goes? im going to have to disagree with you there. theres no CTRL z in real life. photoshop is much more forgiving. like i said ive done both. painting is more difficult--as is drawing. actually drawing/painting the line is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult than manipulating a set of tools. there is math behind photoshop and logic, effects are created via mathematical equations.

real life art on the other hand requires practice and skill--you cant just draw something the way QE did. with photoshop, you could take a photo and emulate that in 10 minutes.

photoshop is just a totally different thing--apples and oranges. its for a different purpose than other 'classic' mediums, which really require practice and training.

I actually agree with you. It takes absolutely no skill to use Photoshop. Just like it takes no skill to paint or draw. Any yob can push buttons, just like any yob can start brushing paint all over a canvas. The fact that you are using a brush instead of a mouse or tablet does not automatically make it better.

 

[DG]

I can see a little bit where you are right wesmdow. I can agree on one point...digital art is definitely forgiving for mistakes or things you dont like whereas almost all other mediums (drawing if in pencil is easier to fix tho) is not fixable.

I think digital art is different than classic art but that doesnt mean it should be excluded.

 

[SA]

wesmdow is trying to separate digital art from (other) 2-D art. Therein lies the problem.

 

[DG]

If you were going to exclude the digital art then you would have to split all other types of art as well. Just because something is done with a paintbrush doesnt mean it only is a painting...there are tons of different types. Look at how an art history course is set-up. You compare tons of paintings and other art whether it is a landscape painting done by oil or a landscape painting done by watercolor. They look totally different but they serve a place together. Or a portrait done in the classical period to a portrait done by Warhol. They still can be looked at together...

 

[wesmdow]

0 but it does. have you ever painted? drawn?

lets go through some famous artists:

leonardo, michelangelo, van gogh, monet, rembrandt, escher, picasso, and normal rockwell?

think you could just pick that up in a day the way i picked up photoshop?

 

[ego_loss]

^^
Yes.

 

[ego_loss]

Wow. It sure is easy to trivialize things!

If you learned everything you need to know about Photoshop in "a day" than you aren't doing much with it, and you really have no room to speak.

 

[wesmdow]

all im trying to point out is that there IS a difference.

fuck man, even a coke bottle is art!

the lines in the sand have to be drawn somewhere, and in the case of my thread, i feel that it should encompass 'classic' mediums, OR ORIGINAL digital art.

a simple edited photograph, such as chrissies (which is badass, im not criticizing it), is NOT comperable to a portait by the likes of rembrandt.

i could edit the picture the way she did in 15 minutes, and REALISTICALLY, thats not what i want in the thread.

you mentioned that you feel like 'non serious' stuff belongs in the lounge. similarly, i feel that artwork that takes little time or effort doesnt belong in a thread devoted to those whove SPENT said time and effort.

im not hating on photoshop, i have no idea where you picked that up. i just think it is not a legit way to create NEW art. its an EDITOR. you EDIT images, not create them.

 

[SA]

im not hating on photoshop, i have no idea where you picked that up.

You're not hating on photoshop the program, but you are putting down people/artists who use it.

think you could just pick that up in a day the way i picked up photoshop?

It is unfair to continuously dismiss one group of artists as inferior to another simply based on the medium used.

 

[wesmdow]

Wow. It sure is easy to trivialize things!

If you learned everything you need to know about Photoshop in "a day" than you aren't doing much with it, and you really have no room to speak.

youd be surprised what you can learn in 24 hours of using meth.

photoshop is ridiculously simple, too, compared to other computer graphics programs. its basically self explanatory, and if its NOT, you can google it or figure it out yourself with half a brain.

...at least i can.

 

[wesmdow]

wesmdow, the flaw in your argument is this continued assertion that one group of artists is better than another simply based on the medium each uses.

the flaw in YOUR argument is that i said they were BETTER.

i dont like half of them.

however, their SKILL is something that cannot be paralelled; you reach a ceiling with photoshop, you can only learn so much and then you have it mastered.

with classic art, its just a totally different ball game.

like i said, apples and oranges.

classic art takes a significantly larger amount of time (and effort in some cases) to master than does photoshop.

classic art also requires a vast set of other skills and equiptment that photoshop does not. for example, maintaining your brushes properly, knowledge of solvents, physical coordination, the ability to express an idea on paper..the list goes on and on.

with photoshop, its a different set of skills, yes. and it does require skill no doubt. but not the same KIND. not just anyone can sit down and draw photorealistally, whereas someone can sit down and edit a photo in 20 minutes to make it look badass.

im not insulting photoshop, or promoting painting (i actually dislike painting). what im saying is that the 2 are not comperable.

photoshop edits whats already been created. classic art creates.

 

[SA]

however, their SKILL is something that cannot be paralelled; you reach a ceiling with photoshop, you can only learn so much and then you have it mastered.

with classic art, its just a totally different ball game.

The ceiling with photoshop is strictly in logistics - the buttons, the commands, the rules. The artistic factor is without limit, it has no ceiling.

photoshop edits whats already been created. classic art creates.

Photoshop does both.

classic art takes a significantly larger amount of time (and effort in some cases) to master than does photoshop.

It takes me longer to do an equation in my head than it does on a calculator. Is one result more valid than the other?

classic art also requires a vast set of other skills and equiptment that photoshop does not. for example, maintaining your brushes properly, knowledge of solvents, physical coordination, the ability to express an idea on paper..the list goes on and on.

So, some jobs are messier than others. Again, it doesn't make one more valid, or talented.

i dont like half of them.

Perhaps that's the whole problem? In that case, why not do what some kept telling me to do - don't like it, don't vote?

 

[wesmdow]

go ahead and chastize ego_loss for his insult to us classic artists then. apparantly he could learn to paint like rockwell in a day.

thats pretty insulting to the art community as a whole.

and no, i havent insulted anyone. its ALL inferred. i feel that photoshop is not generally (you CAN do it) a MEDIUM in and of itself. you need images in it to manipulate.

like i said, its an editor, not a creator. i dont see how thats insulting to anyone.

editing the newspaper is a pretty well respected job, no?