14-year-old has parents arrested for drug counts

[Love In Vein]

What a very tragic situation this is,its one thing to be addicted to drugs(disease) and its another to be put in jail by your own daughter, maybe because she was having a bad day?

It's really obvious you've never hung out at a methlab and really don't know what you're talking about.

If you want to have your opinions, fine. But get some perspective on things.

Otherwise nice families don't just happen to cook meth on the side.

If it wasn't for the war on drugs this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

The war on drugs doesn't matter here. Her parents would have been arrested and imprisoned in a country with a liberal attitude on drugs all the same. There aren't countries that tolerate amatuer chemists synthesizing drugs in the home. Especially when it puts the child in danger and shows a complete lack of regard for the child.

If it was merely, that the child would be placed in suitable care, and the parents had to attend drug rehabilitation then it would be quite reasonable that the girl would 'inform' upon her own parents. Being 14, she would no doubt understand that they could be going to jail for a very long time.

She will get suitable care. And her parents will have to go through drug rehabilitation along with parenting counseling before they get their daughter back on top of a stint in prison.

This is more than just a drug crime. You've got endangerment of a child and neglect. On top of it being really safe to assume that her parents were abusive.

Poor girl, she will probably regret this for the rest of her life. But really, just an innocent girl caught in in the 'war on drugs'.

It's really disgusting you're going to pretend like you care about the girl when all you care about is using this story to support your beliefs that the war on drugs is wrong.

 

[psychetool]

I believe this girl did the right thing. Meth ravages your mind, body and soul IMO. Using hard drugs around young, impressionable children is simply stupid and wrong.

You say she singlehandedly wrecked her life and her parents ?

I say her parents are the ones who fucked up their life, and hers. Think about how fucking STUPID you would have to be to leave equipment to make meth laying around your house when there is a child present. Many of the chemicals used are very dangerous and flammable.

I have spoken to many people who grew up with drug addicted parents and not one of them had a 'good' childhood. Many addicted parents don't mind leaving their children to fend for themself for days while their out on a binge, especially once their of an age which they can take care of their own food and getting to school.

Personally I think she will have a better chance of blooming to be a well rounded person growing up with her foster family rather then with her tweeker parents.

The police already had them under investigation - so I doubt it would have been that long before they were busted anyways.

It sure would take a lot for me to call the cops on my parents - but having my parents producing meth would DEFINITLY warrent a call to the police.

My heart goes out to that poor girl.

Psychetool

 

[blah]

Love in vein, can you provide any proof that the parents were being abusive? Or is it just an assumption? Safe to assume? How come? Maybe you make too many assumptions?

Had these parents been chronic alcoholics they wouldn't be going to jail. And they could make alcohol in their own homes no problem. And many things are flammable.

I suppose you would also support narking in your own parents if they were growing a little marijauna in their house aswell? I mean it supports terorism8) Because of people like you, it is becomming not uncommon for children to nark on their own parents.

And I will say, I do not for one moment condone what the parents did, but to suggest for one moment that jailing them is going to help is simply proposterous.

If I assumed anything, it would be that the parents were 'addicts',victims of a 'disease' of which they desperately needed help,not punitive action.
And instead of prostituting themselves or stealing, lieing and cheating, they took the more logical option.

Whether you realise it or not, you are fuel for the 'war on drugs'. Having sucked in all the propoganda you now perpetuate the myth that criminal sanctions can some how reduce the prevalence of drug abuse in society, where as the complete opposite is true. The more they spend to fight drugs, the worse it gets. Of course if supply was some how reduced surely the price would rise, you know supply and demand. So if the price rises, wouldn't you expect a coressponding increase in burglary and all crime? Since addicts have to support expensive habits?

Well in the USA, you got 2 million prisoners already, the highest prison population in the world. Mostly for drug offenses. And has the demand for drugs gone down? Has crime fallen?

See, in more civilised societies,such as Switzerland for example, addicts are prescribed heroin,and believe it or not it helps them, and society, all crime is reduced.

They don't have to lie,cheat or steal or prostitute themselves to get their fix. And they can still have kids, imagine that. Cause addiction is a 'disease' which requires treatment and rehabilitation not jail. To assume all drug addicts are depraved,low life child abusing parents is as judgemental as a person could get.

So you keep on your narrow minded crusade and help to perpetuate the 'war on drugs' and in another decade see what results have eventuated in the USA while more sensible countries like Holland and Switzerland have achieved far greater results with regard to drug abuse.

You are aware though, are you not, that places like Holland have far less use of marijuana where it is freely availible? Where as in the USA, where marijauna 'supports terrorism' and might make you shoot your best friend, use is very very high.

But hey, we all know who suffers the most from this 'war' don't we? Yes thats right, the kids. And because of a completly unregulated supply of drugs is left in the hand of criminals younger and younger people are useing drugs of all kinds, and thats as bad as it gets,and primarilly because of individuals like yourself who have obviously bought all the propoganda and perpetuate the 'war on drugs' Addicts need help, not war.

 

[JPN]

"Protect the children" is the main war cry of the government. Given the child worship culture prevailing in the US (if not throughout western culture) the govenrment can justify the suspension of any rights using child protection as an excuse.

Of course, when the same child consumes drugs, he is no longer worthy of any kind of protection, but should be severely punished (criminal record, denial of federal funds to attend school etc). It seems the use of a substance currently classified as illegal immediately transforms this poor little angels into dangerous criminal adults.

As for criticizing parenting skills, well, I don't have any brats myself. However, seeing the hysteria, suspension of common sense, and voluntary surrendering of personal freedoms in exchange for government protection that seems to accompany parenthood, I do not plan to have any kids anytime soon.

 

[Love In Vein]

Love in vein, can you provide any proof that the parents were being abusive? Or is it just an assumption? Safe to assume? How come? Maybe you make too many assumptions?

Maybe I've known too many meth addicts, meth cooks and read too many true accounts.

Asides from the part where these parents were heavily involved with methamphetamine for at least 8 months to the point of causing themselves to be investigated for that long, there's nothing I know about meth addicts that would suggest these were even possibly nice parents.

Had these parents been chronic alcoholics they wouldn't be going to jail. And they could make alcohol in their own homes no problem.

That's great and all. But methamphetamine and alcohol are two different things. And they were arrested for synthesizing methamphetamine in their home.

And many things are flammable.

You know, my house has a lot of flammable things in it. But it tends to lack on things that will cause major explosions due to slight mistakes.

My house also tends to lack chemicals that release toxic flammable fumes when used properly, too.

I guess all my house lacks is the obligatory methlab, huh?

If I assumed anything, it would be that the parents were 'addicts',victims of a 'disease' of which they desperately needed help,not punitive action.

They weren't just addicts or victims of disease.

They made drugs and spread their disease and fucked up their kids life.

Being an addict doesn't excuse you from crimes you commit against others.

And after prison they are going to get help as the judge is going to make it a requirement that they get various forms of counseling and probably have to go through a halfway home before they get their kid back. Then they'll have a probation officer checking up on them to make sure they're not getting into trouble again.

And instead of prostituting themselves or stealing, lieing and cheating, they took the more logical option.

Really? I always thought the logical option to earning money was getting a job and working.

Whether you realise it or not, you are fuel for the 'war on drugs'.

Considering I use drugs myself, that's pretty fucked up.

Having sucked in all the propoganda

I haven't sucked up any propaganda. Why don't you go and read through the posts I've made over the past two years.

you now perpetuate the myth that criminal sanctions can some how reduce the prevalence of drug abuse in society

Where did I ever say that?

I don't even believe that.

Maybe if you got over your pro-drug bias you could read my posts objectively and see that I am neither universally for or against drugs.

where as the complete opposite is true. The more they spend to fight drugs, the worse it gets. Of course if supply was some how reduced surely the price would rise, you know supply and demand. So if the price rises, wouldn't you expect a coressponding increase in burglary and all crime? Since addicts have to support expensive habits?

You haven't said anything to support your statement that the opposite is true.

Yes, criminal sanctions inflate drug prices. But you haven't shown how deflated drug prices equates to drugs being less prevalent in society.

Well in the USA, you got 2 million prisoners already, the highest prison population in the world. Mostly for drug offenses. And has the demand for drugs gone down? Has crime fallen?

And if those people weren't in prison would there be less drug users?

See, in more civilised societies,such as Switzerland for example, addicts are prescribed heroin,and believe it or not it helps them, and society, all crime is reduced.

LOL. Yeah, a society that's prospered thanks to the Holocaust that's still holding billions of dollars and countless pieces of art owned by holocaust survivors. A society that enables criminal enterprises around the world, including terrorists organizations. A society that enables the very organizations flooding America's drug markets to function. A society that enables criminals from all over the world to avoid prosecution for serious crimes. How fucking civilized!

Anyways, other than to say you need to check out your statistics on drug and crime rates in countries with "liberal" drug policies instead of relying on statements made by pro-drug or drug policy reform organizations, I'm not going to bother arguing with the rest of your statements. I don't support the War on Drugs.

 

[*Vi0let*]

How can some of you insensitively say that "this girl ruined her parents' life and probably her own"? They ruined their own lives and were probably ruining hers. Why bash the poor girl? If anything, rant about how unjustly our government punishes drug offenders.

 

[blah]

Love in vein, I will reiterate, 'you are fuel' for the 'war on drugs'.
You just keep on with the 'hard line' approach and help perpetuate the inhumane treatment of drug users world wide especially in the USA. Unfortuanatly far too many people are in jail because of people like yourself who just havn't taken the time to look at the facts, which speak for themselves. Aquaint yourself, for a start, with the history of prohibition and how prevalent drug abuse was when drugs were by and large 'freely availible',right back to ancient Rome.

You seem to focus in on one aspect of drug abuse, ie the negative consequences to the user, and or children in their care.
What about the Homocides? Thefts? Corruption?Prostitution? Organised crime?

Go and have a look at some of the 'USA execution fact websites'
You will find, information relating to some of the most heinous, horrific crimes, a 'large proportion' of which involves drugs,mostly the aquisition of them. Whether meth users strung out and in the process of breaking and entering(for a fix) end up shooting people(dead), or rips offs where poeple are murdered. Then, check out prison inmate statistics.

See, the more you succeed in the 'war on drugs' the higher the price and therefore even more crime, thefts, homocides, and corruption and organised crime. If thats the society you want to live in keep on with the crusade and invest in more security. On the other hand, maybe one day you may realise 'treatment' is the only sustainable option.

To nark on your own parents which will put them in jail, for perhaps many years is depraved. The girl won't realise this perhaps till many years later, or maybe the day after she did it,but her parents required help not war.

 

[Del]

Some day that girl will grow up and realize that she singlehandedly wrecked her own life and that of her parents. It sickens me to see kids who have more allegiance to a misguided war on drugs than they have to their own parents.

Sure, it was irresponsible of the parents to be doing what they were, but their victimless crime is not deserving of what they are about to receive as a punishment.

And as for the "serious" help you say the parents need...they're headed to prison. Do you really think they're going to receive that sort of help in prison?

I agree with what Craig said.

 

[Love In Vein]

You just keep on with the 'hard line' approach and help perpetuate the inhumane treatment of drug users world wide especially in the USA.

I've served time before. Don't talk to me about inhumane treatment.

You didn't even pay attention to what I said. I don't believe in a hard line approach to drugs. I don't believe people should be inprisoned for simple drug crimes.

Unfortuanatly far too many people are in jail because of people like yourself who just havn't taken the time to look at the facts, which speak for themselves.

What facts haven't I looked at? I've spent the past 10 years researching drugs as much as I've been using drugs. Infact I've spent more time reading about drugs than I've spent high on drugs. That's a LOT of time. It's probably far more time than you've spent. In addition to my time researching, I have real life experience.

I DON'T have to have the same opinion you do simply because I know the same things.

Aquaint yourself, for a start, with the history of prohibition and how prevalent drug abuse was when drugs were by and large 'freely availible',right back to ancient Rome.

Been there, done that.

I understand the social impact of prohibition, decriminalization and legalization about as well as anyone can.

For example, I've filled notebooks designing a system of controlled legalization. And I've filled a notebook tearing apart all of the flaws in the system.

And asides all that, at this point you're side-tracking the issue to make your point that you're against prohibition.

I get it already, okay?

You seem to focus in on one aspect of drug abuse, ie the negative consequences to the user, and or children in their care.

The entire point of this thread is based on an article where these two parents had a methlab in their home and their 14 year old child turned them in.

That is what I'm focused on.

What about the Homocides? Thefts? Corruption?Prostitution? Organised crime?

That's not what the article was about.

Go and have a look at some of the 'USA execution fact websites'
You will find, information relating to some of the most heinous, horrific crimes, a 'large proportion' of which involves drugs,mostly the aquisition of them.

What the hell does that have to do with the article?

See, the more you succeed in the 'war on drugs' the higher the price and therefore even more crime, thefts, homocides, and corruption and organised crime.

Well that's a whole other issue.

On the other hand, maybe one day you may realise 'treatment' is the only sustainable option.

Well.... these parents are going to be put in drug treatment after they serve their time, in addition to other counseling, which I've already said.

So it's kind of a moot point on top of completely ignoring the fact that this isn't just a drug case.

To nark on your own parents which will put them in jail, for perhaps many years is depraved.

To fuck up your kids life and endanger them is depraved, among other things.

The girl won't realise this perhaps till many years later, or maybe the day after she did it,but her parents required help not war.

Yeah yeah yeah, you already said that.

If you're going to continue, why not keep your content relevant to the article and thread? If you want to discuss why you believe prohibition is wrong, start a new thread.

 

[ikarus]

Given the child worship culture prevailing in the US (if not throughout western culture) the govenrment can justify the suspension of any rights using child protection as an excuse.

There's a good reason for that "child worship" (as you put it). Our species biggest job is to ensure it's own survival, which is done by making babies, and having them grow up to make babies of their own. And who's rights were suspended here? I'm not really clear on that one....

 

[craig420]

There's a good reason for that "child worship" (as you put it). Our species biggest job is to ensure it's own survival, which is done by making babies, and having them grow up to make babies of their own. And who's rights were suspended here? I'm not really clear on that one....

I think the discussion has strayed from the article a bit. I thought a mod would close this thread at this point, not feed the fire. However, if you throw the bait, I'll bite...

You really want to argue that the nonsense that the government feeds us is part of a bigger plan to ensure the survival of our species? Come on, let's get real. For starters, with the current overpopulation on this planet, it would likely be more beneficial to discourage "making babies".
Furthermore, this argument makes the assumption that the claims the government makes on behalf of children are correct. The war on drugs has largely been fueled by the thought that incarcerating anyone that uses, makes, or sells drugs somehow makes our children safer. However, this assumption has been shown to be blatantly false. Every society that has decriminalized drugs has experienced lower crime rates and lower drug use. Conversely, every society that has criminalized such actions has experienced a resultant increase in crime and drug use. So, I fail to see how such maniacal concepts such as our war on drugs will help to ensure the survival of our species. Perhaps you can clue us in.

And as for "who's rights were suspended"...I believe JPN was talking about the suspension of rights caused by the war on drugs in general...not specifically in relation to this article. I don't feel anyone should need to elaborate on how the war on drugs has infringed on personal civil liberties; if you aren't aware of how this failed social experiment has tread on our rights then you certainly need to study the issue more.

 

[BA]

Oi, I'm going to ask that the discussion at least stays in the general realm of the topic from this point on.

 

[voodoosoup]

did that make anyone else think about george orwell's 1984?

 

[Harlequin]

she probably wants absolutely nothing to do with her parents any time soon until they've sobered up for a while and get themselves mentally put together again.

If she's 14, she won't want anything to do with her parents until about age 30.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I believe that the girl was a victim merely because her parents were using the drug. I know first-hand how it feels to have parents who use meth and it really sucks. They do NOT act right as a parent, and if you were in that girl's position, it would only be a matter of time before you snapped and had to find some solution.

People who use meth are NOT good parents. They act violently, and get very angry for stupid reasons. They blame all of their problems on other people, including their kids. They will make the kids feel horrible about themselves, and not give a shit.

 

[craig420]

People who use meth are NOT good parents. They act violently, and get very angry for stupid reasons. They blame all of their problems on other people, including their kids. They will make the kids feel horrible about themselves, and not give a shit.

Ahh, nothing like some prejudicial stereotypes to show your closed-minded, ignorance.

So many people have been brainwashed into believing that anyone who touches this "evil" drug automatically become monsters...no middle ground of course. As soon as you use it, you become a horrible parent, a violent criminal, a raper of women, an unproductive member of society. Wait, does any of this shit sound familiar? It's the same crap that the government and people like you have spewed for nearly a century in efforts to criminalize a number of drugs...first marijuana, then heroin, lsd, cocaine, meth, etc.

Do you really believe it is impossible to use meth responsibly? The drug doesn't do evil shit...just some people who do evil shit happen to use meth. And if they didn't have meth available to them they'd probably be out shoving cocaine up their nose or binge drinking all night. These are addictions problems and often manifest themselves with whichever drug is available to them.

 

[Icey]

^^^
There is NO justification for any parent to be using meth. If you are a parent...you shouldn't be doing things like meth, coke, or any other hard substances. What kind of example does this leave for the kid??? Not a very good one. Im not saying that meth makes you a terrible person in anyway...but if you have children...its a whole different story.

 

[craig420]

^^^
There is NO justification for any parent to be using meth. If you are a parent...you shouldn't be doing things like meth, coke, or any other hard substances. What kind of example does this leave for the kid??? Not a very good one. Im not saying that meth makes you a terrible person in anyway...but if you have children...its a whole different story.

Elaborate on why this would automatically make you a horrible parent. Is this because these things are illegal? or is it because these items are inherently bad or evil?

Do you believe that drinking a a glass of wine in front of your children is bad? How about a beer? How about pounding 12 beers in front of your child? How about pounding 12 beers and smoking 2 packs of cigarettes in front of your child? How about pounding 12 beers, chain smoking a carton of cigarettes, and watching violent television programs in front of your child? How about drinking a whole damn case of beer, smoking the whole damn carton of cigarettes, all the while watching adult themed, violent television, and cursing up a storm during the whole thing....and then telling the bitch wife to go out and grab more beer and cigarettes?
All of this is legal.


Do you believe that sneaking a toke of marijuana out of view of your children is bad? Do you believe that smoking some pot when you're at a friend's party (while your children are at home with the babysitter) is bad? How about maybe doing a small line of cocaine at that same party? How about dropping some rolls at a rave? Now, the dreaded meth...how about a small bit of meth when you're at a party?
All this is illegal. But I would contend that any of these items will impact a child far less than any of the legal actions I mentioned above.

My point?
It is not what you do so much as it is how you do it. You can be a resonsible parent and still take drugs responsibly in moderation WITHOUT impacting your child's development or safety. You can fuck up your child in any number of ways, both by legal behavior and illegal behavior. But just cause I choose to partake in illegal drugs on occasion would not automatically make me a bad parent. And likewise, just because I obstain from drugs or other illegal behaviors does not automatically make me a good parent.


If everyone we're genuinely interested in the "example" we left for children then:
-We wouldn't speed on the roads driving them to school or soccer practice.
-We wouldn't go to McDonald's just cause it's quick and easy.
-We wouldn't buy them video games; we'd have them get off their asses and play outside.
-We wouldn't let them watch half the shit we let them watch cause we're too lazy to monitor what they do or find something constructive for them.
-We would recycle everything.
-We would pick up trash in our cities.
-We wouldn't smoke cigarettes.
-We wouldn't drink alcohol.
-We wouldn't drive gas-guzzling vehicles.
-We wouldn't curse.
-We wouldn't make prejudicial comments about those we don't know.


Ahh, shit, that's a lot of work though. I guess it's just a lot easier to stay off the meth and say that that makes you a good parent.

 

[Icey]

As a responsible parent, you have the responsibility to show your kid what is right and what is wrong. And doing any drug...(including alcohol and cigs)...in front of your child is not a good thing in my opinion. Do I smoke, drink, and do other things...yes i do. BUT...if i have a child...my goal in life will be to make his/her life worth something. Not show them the bad things in life. I would quit cold turkey anthing i do if i had a child. Are there responsible ways of taking drugs...yes...BUT...do you want your child taking the drugs. Because i know i wouldnt. Your goal as a parent is to raise that child the best you can...and if you wanna do it on drugs...i guanrentee they will one day find out. And personally i know plenty of kids wouldnt want their parents doing drugs either. cause then that shows the kid its ok. "mommy and daddy do it...so why cant i" I've watched drugs break up realtionships with children, marriages, and many people. Just remember parents are the biggest influences on most childrens lives...so think before you do.

 

[Summer of Love]

while i do think that person(s) with a child or children running a meth lab should be forced to shut the lab down, just because of the extreme chemical hazards of the lab, i really, really disagree with the fact that the owners of the lab are being sent to prison. i think this DOES represent the fact that the war on drugs has gone way over the top and is destroying lives of people who are completely innocent of any violent acts. the lab owners were not directly victimizing the child in any way. while it is extremely dumb in my opinion to run an extremely dangerous lab while being responsible for a kid, i think the fact that they are likely to spend decades in prison just for manufacturing/possessing a simple chemical is fucking ridiculous, no matter how dangerous the lab. i seriously doubt the lab owners were running it just to victimize the child. they just wanted to make money.
so, while people can say that the hazards of the lab, the effects of the drug, the addiction potential, etc. justifies putting those people away for up to 60 years, i disagree because of the fact that there was no direct violent act or any sort of victimization. i think the only thing that should happen to them is to have the lab shut down, like i said, just because they do have a child in their possession, and meth labs are extremely hazardous. locking them up, in my eyes, is nothing more than fuel for the war on drugs and a horrible injustice to the lab owners and the young girl, even though she turned them in herself. im no psychic, but i think in the years to come, the girl will regret doing that deeply.