Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

[JessFR]

I tend to agree.

It's probably not an outright false statement to say "some people can manage a heroin habit without it destroying their lives".

But there's a major problem.. Nearly all of us either believed that or told ourselves that early on, and nearly all of us were wrong.

Heroin, in the social climate we are in today, regardless of issues like fentanyl and other shit, is EXTREMELY likely to fuck up your life and nearly all of us in some way or another also didn't wanna believe that. We all wanna be the exception, we all wanna believe everyone else did something wrong and if we just do it a bit differently we can keep using forever.

But it's virtually all crap, if you're thinking like that it's just cause you love heroin. And hey, no judgement, I love heroin too. I destroyed everything in my life, pawned and lost everything I ever owned, fucked up every relationship I had, ended up in debt, homeless, stealing and prostituting myself. Yet I STILL love heroin and would still do it every day if I could.

But you can't.. if you think you can, it's almost certainly just lying to yourself. You might sustain it for a while, but in all likelihood you're just gonna end up like all the rest of us.

 

[dalpat077]

Please, just. Could you leave it be? This is the opposite of HR.

I know you're super into the stuff, but please stop trying to convince others that it's a good idea, I beg you..

When curious people see posts like yours, and I kid you not, almost every single thing you ever posted in this thread is like "hey, it's not so bad, I'm a functional addict, and I love it so so much, you should try it - it's worth trying it" - and that's all fine for you, srsly, I'm happy you're happy. But it also creates the illusion for the curious people to say "HEY, they're functional, so if they can do it, I can do it." - but you and I know they can't. I would be surprised if the number of functional addicts was as high as 2%, but you nonchalantly leave that out.

You KNOW how many people OD, how many people fuck up, sell their stuff, steal from their parents, fuck their friends over, live on the streets, shit I read about some dude putting ice tea in the syringe for his best friend because he didn't want to share the heroin (yeah the best friend died)

It's absolutely fine that you're doing good, but you KNOW how much horror it causes to so many others, and that they're not as good as you are at either controlling themselves, or lying to themselves, I really don't know you or your psyche, but just..please? At least dial it back? Aren't you scared that people read your posts, think "Heyyy, that means I can control it too", and try it?(everyone thinks they're special and great, and one "positive" example is often enough to convince someone) That thought would kill me.

This is nothing personal, but your posts are all over this thread, and I'm scared of the influence they're having honestly. You downplay this stuff like it's gummibears

Much as I hate to say it but I agree with this. As you well know. And I have no beef at all with the member that posted this (I have not interacted with them at all) and there's also another member who is a big fan and who I consider a friend (as far as that's possible on forums such as these anyway) and we've had some very interesting debates on this.

I think these dudes are on very slippery slopes. And what you're saying here echoes my own sentiments. I never got into Heroin out of sheer fear of the stuff and all the shit that I'd heard about it and seeing one or two that were totally fucked up on the shit (and I'm talking early '80's here). But as I've noted: if one of these books was my first and only source of reference back in the day well who the fuck knows. Well actually I do know. I'd probably be singing the same tune as most that have been there, or are still there, and have the t-shirts and scars to prove the horrors and the dangers of this shit.

As I also noted on another thread on this topic: when reading some of this new shit that's being put out there you'd swear, based on some of their statistics presented, that there isn't a drug problem at all anywhere in the world i.e. it's just a simple and small fringe group on the edge of society that's ended up with addiction problems. I find that hard to believe. And if these dudes are fortunate enough to be able to use responsibly well then good for them. But I put it to you that they're the minority. It's well known around these parts that when it comes to Cocaine and Crack use and abuse my take on things is just as cavalier. But at least I'm honest enough to say that I know that I was just lucky and in the minority. And while I have a problem identifying with some of the Crack horror stories around here (not to mention Crack documentaries that I've watched over the years): it proves, to me anyway. that my outcomes were just pure luck and nothing more.

And don't get me wrong. I do understand, pretty well I think, as to why people go down this route. As I was just telling somebody just the other day: it's taken everything I have to not simply start climbing into my Fentanyl stash for recreational purposes. Because fuck it: in spite of my posts and rantings and ravings around these parts things have not been good for a long time. But I know that the last thing I need in life is an addiction that I cannot cope with let alone afford.

I've gone on enough (I know my posts piss people off). But I'll say this: this thread keeps coming up. And although I've no experience with opiates: I'd take the word of 99% of the Heroin addicts on this thread and their warnings over some liberal and supposedly forward thinking educated professor any time of the day or night. So far as I can tell: it's gamble and the odds are not exactly stacked in your favor that you're going to be able to use this shit in a controlled way for too long before it gets out of hand. So unless you're a gambler and with some very deep pockets and nothing to lose: find something else if you must.

Then again and sadly: it's not like I went down the Cocaine and Crack route blindly either. And in spite of everything that I'd been told or heard or seen back in the day: nothing would have stopped me. And didn't. And I didn't even have the excuse of finding something to try and deal with trauma or whatever else as there wasn't anything to deal with. Frankly: it was curiosity (and wanting to identify with a certain lifestyle back then). Who knows. I don't have the answers. Do discussions like this and these new books coming out fuel people's curiosity or do they put them into real life perspective?

 

[dalpat077]

If you're in the U.S. I can assure you that heroin is a lot less expensive than Oxycodone. Injecting will give you the most intense and euphoric rush that you'll ever experience in your life.

Again and no offense is meant to the OP here (as I said: I don't know you and, well, you've been a member here a lot longer than I have so I have show some respect I know). But how is this harm reduction advice? If I was a youngster and came across this and was a novice just looking for something to either take the edge off or have a good party time? Rich coming from me I suppose (re: Cocaine and Crack). Just saying I suppose.

This is an edit from earlier this morning,

To be far: I should add that my issue here is in the context of this particular thread. Apologies. Came down hard and heavy here on this post. Really not my place to have done so.

 

[dalpat077]

In my city we have safe injection sites or places addicts can go to use safely, and needle exchange programs, and organizations that give free needles, but the majority of IV drug users and hard drug addicts do not go to the safe injection sites, or use needle exchange programs.

This is very interesting. Never seen this stated before. Not questioning you at all because you'll know better than I. Just interesting. One would assume that this would not be the case (and seems to be the foundation on which most pundits of full legalization or, at very least, decriminalization of all hard drugs base their theories or ideas on). Be one hell of thing to discover that this is a general rule of thumb.

 

[December Flower]

I tend to agree.

It's probably not an outright false statement to say "some people can manage a heroin habit without it destroying their lives".

But there's a major problem.. Nearly all of us either believed that or told ourselves that early on, and nearly all of us were wrong.

Heroin, in the social climate we are in today, regardless of issues like fentanyl and other shit, is EXTREMELY likely to fuck up your life and nearly all of us in some way or another also didn't wanna believe that. We all wanna be the exception, we all wanna believe everyone else did wrong and if we just do it a bit differently we can keep using forever.

But it's virtually all crap, if you're thinking like that it's just cause you love heroin. And hey, no judgement, I love heroin too. I destroyed everything in my life, pawned and lost everything I ever owned, fucked up every relationship I had, ended up in debt, homeless, stealing and prostituting myself. Yet I STILL love heroin and would still do it every day if I could.

But you can't.. if you think you can, it's almost certainly just lying to yourself. You might sustain it for a while, but in all likelihood you're just gonna end up like all the rest of us.

I think until they learn better, most people will always assume that they're somehow special, so reading one "positive" example, paired with the grandiose illusion of being special - posts like "hey it's awesome, didn't destroy my life, I'm functioning 100% and I love it" are having a really really hard impact. And I've read through this thread, there's hundreds of these posts from the same person, all super positive about heroin.

I really like how you post about it. You're not being negative, you clearly say that you love it, and that you don't want to give it up.
But you also say what it did to your life, and what an impact it had on you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Be one hell of thing to discover that this is a general rule of thumb.

we did not have safe injection sites but most pharmacies would give out packs of safe injection kits for free, no questions asked. except clean spoons for some reason at least in norwich and leeds. they would have 10 clean needles+wipes+that toothed thing to dispose in +whatever i can't remember.

most of the people that i used with were pretty good about this to a point. in that they would generally use clean needles each time (but not always, eventually your packs run out). rest of the safety shit was more or less take it or leave it depending on what you have to hand and how much you care in that moment.

but, i used with people who weren't street homeless so had a place they could go, store their kit etc. have seen people with needles behind their ears (so, not remotely sterile or sharp) going to dirty using spots and that makes me feel a bit ill.

i don't think this has much of an impact on the health benefits of legalisation to users. quality of product and the dangers that go with buying more than you can comfortably afford on a black market run by murderous cunts are more of a risk for the majority of drugs users.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Please, just. Could you leave it be? This is the opposite of HR.

I know you're super into the stuff, but please stop trying to convince others that it's a good idea, I beg you..

When curious people see posts like yours, and I kid you not, almost every single thing you ever posted in this thread is like "hey, it's not so bad, I'm a functional addict, and I love it so so much, you should try it - it's worth trying it" - and that's all fine for you, srsly, I'm happy you're happy. But it also creates the illusion for the curious people to say "HEY, they're functional, so if they can do it, I can do it." - but you and I know they can't. I would be surprised if the number of functional addicts was as high as 2%, but you nonchalantly leave that out.

You KNOW how many people OD, how many people fuck up, sell their stuff, steal from their parents, fuck their friends over, live on the streets, shit I read about some dude putting ice tea in the syringe for his best friend because he didn't want to share the heroin (yeah the best friend died)

It's absolutely fine that you're doing good, but you KNOW how much horror it causes to so many others, and that they're not as good as you are at either controlling themselves, or lying to themselves, I really don't know you or your psyche, but just..please? At least dial it back? Aren't you scared that people read your posts, think "Heyyy, that means I can control it too", and try it?(everyone thinks they're special and great, and one "positive" example is often enough to convince someone) That thought would kill me.

This is nothing personal, but your posts are all over this thread, and I'm scared of the influence they're having honestly. You downplay this stuff like it's gummibears

Exactly. It's not as though heroin is the same as cannabis/hashish.

 

[JessFR]

This is very interesting. Never seen this stated before. Not questioning you at all because you'll know better than I. Just interesting. One would assume that this would not be the case (and seems to be the foundation on which most pundits of full legalization or, at very least, decriminalization of all hard drugs base their theories or ideas on). Be one hell of thing to discover that this is a general rule of thumb.

In my personal experience, noone goes to safe injection facilities unless they happen to live right near one anyway and are homeless.

I could go into the why's, but essentially I think they boil down to nobody being soooo terrified of overdosing that they're willing to wait the travel times to have their drugs.

Plus, you want somewhere quiet when you have your shot.

Needle exchanges people definitely use, but not as often as getting needles from pharmacies. Almost all mine have been from either pharmacies or hospital vending machines. Needle exchanges are if you need anything more exotic. IME.

 

[Olivia Nicole]

Please, just. Could you leave it be?... At least dial it back?

I was watching a documentary recently called Reefer Madness and it struck me that the narrative around cannabis use was, decades ago, similar to what's said about heroin use today. 'Experts' and 'authorities' claimed it caused psychosis and ruined the lives of people who used it.

I'll be 27 next month and I respect older Bluelighters but I guess I want to shift the conversation and point out that you can use heroin regularly without destroying your life. If not for the stigma attached to heroin we would probably hear much more from people like the many who've posted in this years long thread that manage their habits responsibly (and yes, I've read every single post in this thread).

I'm trying to give a balanced perspective. The fact is we really don't know how many people can handle their dope and how many can't. The 'evidence' is only anecdotal. And as with the scary propaganda documented in Reefer Madness, the voices of a different experience are drowned out.

 

[JessFR]

Show me, anywhere in the world, where people end up on cannabis like people end up on heroin.

I used to do all sorts of really scummy things to make money with lots of other morally questionable people, and almost all of it was driven by heroin.

Some of that is the fault of the social environment and the laws but it still is what it is.

Weed is illegal here too, I've NEVER seen anyone prostitute themselves, sell prized processions, commit immoral and illegal acts the likes of which they'd previously never dreamed, etc, just for weed. Ever. Not once.

So don't tell me it's just that people "can't handle it". Cause it's crap.

Telling people that heroin doesn't cause brain damage, doesn't in itself cause organ damage, might be able stable if the law allowed people to get it for free, those are all parts of providing a balanced perspective to oppose the bullshit official sources tend to give.

Suggesting its not really that dangerous except for people who can't handle it.. Is complete horseshit. And there's a reason piles and piles and piles of people here disagree in spite of years of first hand experience.

Tbh the suggestion that there's actually piles of hidden stable heroin users reminds me of the "shy trump voter" that supposedly would deliver trump an overwhelming victory.

That turned out to be bs too. Turns out people aren't that shy.

 

[JessFR]

And here's the thing. Even if you really could get it for free in a social environment that allowed you to keep using heroin fairly safely and stably.

It's still gonna have taken over your life. You'll just be functional in spite of that.

Thats not exactly a good thing and unless your life is already sucky beyond imagination to start with, it's not a good idea to be encouraging or encouraging by downplaying anyone to be risking getting trapped using heroin, whether it's functional or not.

 

[December Flower]

I was watching a documentary recently called Reefer Madness and it struck me that the narrative around cannabis use was, decades ago, similar to what's said about heroin use today. 'Experts' and 'authorities' claimed it caused psychosis and ruined the lives of people who used it.

I'll be 27 next month and I respect older Bluelighters but I guess I want to shift the conversation and point out that you can use heroin regularly without destroying your life. If not for the stigma attached to heroin we would probably hear much more from people like the many who've posted in this years long thread that manage their habits responsibly (and yes, I've read every single post in this thread).

I'm trying to give a balanced perspective. The fact is we really don't know how many people can handle their dope and how many can't. The 'evidence' is only anecdotal. And as with the scary propaganda documented in Reefer Madness, the voices of a different experience are drowned out.

No offense, but I don't really see your opinion as well-balanced on the subject. You're clearly letting your own subjective outcome of your addiction take a major aspect of your views. I respect you for being able to control yourself, don't get me wrong..

but just read through TDS or Recovery..there's shitloads, literally thousands of threads in this forum alone from people desperate to get out of this addiction. You're so so strongly in favor of promoting that it's rather harmless, but these "anecdotals" can be seen clear as day all over this forum. But, guess what, your experience is also just anecdotal. Lots of people talking like you, too, and due to the forum being 20 years old, you can really follow a lot of these lives, and it doesn't seem to be ending pretty very often. Hell, I would curse my own words if they only made one person try this shit and never get out.

Please just think about the impact you might be having. I see that both sides of any argument should be represented, but you kind of ignore the pain it causes, because it doesn't cause it for you, and that's just not well balanced, and yeah, there's the thing of impressionable people reading that.

I've lost a friend not too long ago, he thought he was tooootally in control, denied everything for years and years even to himself - super high-functioning bullshitter. Absolutely played down the substance, too, "it's all just media propaganda, it's totally harmless". When he tried to quit, he realized, he was already too deep in, never got out. I fucking miss that guy

 

[JessFR]

Which is another reason you're not gonna be convincing most of us who've had to deal with this for a while, most of us have already seen what happened to people who were so sure they were functional and had it under control, sooner or later.

Many of us were once that person.

I'm not saying it's impossible to be functional, it's not impossible to win the lottery either, but the consequence of losing that bet is a few dollars. With heroin you're betting at the low end years of your life and negative experiences you're not gonna be quickly forgetting.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

As I've said before in the thread, the answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is "No". Always "No".

With that being said, I'm cautious in regards to making any kinds of statements about how inherently destructive something like heroin is, considering the profound distortions created by the legal/social context that drug use and misuse occurs in. Without a doubt, even within a very progressive context re: drug policy there would still be problems with some individuals abusing drugs...just as there are alcoholics in today's society. But a lot of the rhetoric surrounding "heroin" reminds me of people a hundred years ago arguing that alcohol should be kept illegal because it makes people go blind from methanol poisoning or something. Within a different context, such as one in which drugs were decriminalized, there were safe access points & drug misuse was a question for the medical/health system rather than the criminal justice system, many of the problems seemingly inherent with opioids would be eliminated or greatly reduced, including overdose deaths and anti-social behavior, etc.

That is not the world we live in and I get that. But...the voices who raise questions about the prohibition, who tease out the contradictions inherent in our barbaric and ignorant conception of drug policy, those are valuable voices to have in the discourse I think, and shouldn't just be automatically disregarded because there's a fear that some naive newcomer will privilege their voice/perspective over all of those who emphasize that heroin is indeed bad. In regards to Hart in particular, the first time I encountered him was in that film "The House I Live In" (great documentary BTW, one of my favorites) and I've read some of his work since...tbh I've never really been impressed with him as a writer, and some of his takes have just been bad, IMO. But I do respect that fact that he's a public person who's willingly put himself out there to violate the taboo of discussing recreational drug use, essentially. Yes, there are individuals out there "high-functioning drug users"...William Halsted was another famous example...and probably there would be many more if we had a sane public policy regarding drugs. But that's not the world we live in and, if you develop a taste for these kinds of drugs, it's almost a near-certainty that you'll develop serious problems down the line.

But, at the same time, it's just not right to claim that such people do not exist, or even that the majority of users of [insert drug] are NOT physically-dependent drug addicts, at any given time, simply to perpetuate the mystified "official narrative" of any illegal drug you care to name, for the admittedly-well intentioned reason of keeping naive (or arrogant, in the vein of "I know I'm strong enough to never get addicted, just like all these other high-functioning drug addicts!" people from experimenting, in potentially harmful or disastrous ways, with an illegal drug.

Drug use or misuse for any one person occurs at a confluence of physiological, social, legal, cultural and other factors...I support a radical overhaul of public policy regarding drugs in this country, as I know others here do as well. I've also seen the destructive and fatal consequences of drug abuse, so I sympathize with those emphasizing that & who may be more wary about entertaining other conceptions of the issue

 

[Olivia Nicole]

...Do discussions like this and these new books coming out fuel people's curiosity or do they put them into real life perspective?

I don't think there's any danger in speaking the truth:

1) you can try heroin once without becoming addicted
2) a lot of people become horribly addicted after using heroin regularly, but not everyone
3) the real harm has more to do with the sociolegal context of heroin use than the drug itself

 

[JessFR]

I don't think there's any danger in speaking the truth:

1) you can try heroin once without becoming addicted
2) a lot of people become horribly addicted after using heroin regularly, but not everyone
3) the real harm has more to do with the sociolegal context of heroin use than the drug itself

1. Is true only in the most profoundly distorted sense of the word.

It's like telling people they can play Russian roulette just once without ending up with a bullet to the head. Yes, it's true, you can. But a LOT of people won't.

And I wanna be absolutely clear about this, while you can't become dependant from using heroin once, you absolutely can become addicted from using heroin once, and many have.

2 is again true, but somewhat misleading. If you're not prone to becoming addicted to heroin, you're unlikely to be driven to wanna keep using it like someone who is. If you wanna keep using it and make justifications for why you should, it's likely you are one of the vulnerable ones.

3. Yes, I agree. Problem is we can't choose to not be in that sociolegal climate.

If you wanna argue that heroin doesn't have to be as dangerous as it is I think there's a LOT of truth to that. But it IS very dangerous in the environment it's used in now and that shouldn't be downplayed.

 

[December Flower]

If you wanna argue that heroin doesn't have to be as dangerous as it is I think there's a LOT of truth to that. But it IS very dangerous in the environment it's used in now and that shouldn't be downplayed.

I mean if guns shot gummibears, they would be harmless, too, but they don't. I'm not gonna go out promoting guns with the disclaimer "only if they shot gummibears", but that's this exactly: "it's totally harmless, if only the government legalized it" as if ever.

As I've said before in the thread, the answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is "No". Always "No".

With that being said, I'm cautious in regards to making any kinds of statements about how inherently destructive something like heroin is, considering the profound distortions created by the legal/social context that drug use and misuse occurs in. Without a doubt, even within a very progressive context re: drug policy there would still be problems with some individuals abusing drugs...just as there are alcoholics in today's society. But a lot of the rhetoric surrounding "heroin" reminds me of people a hundred years ago arguing that alcohol should be kept illegal because it makes people go blind from methanol poisoning or something. Within a different context, such as one in which drugs were decriminalized, there were safe access points & drug misuse was a question for the medical/health system rather than the criminal justice system, many of the problems seemingly inherent with opioids would be eliminated or greatly reduced, including overdose deaths and anti-social behavior, etc.

That is not the world we live in and I get that. But...the voices who raise questions about the prohibition, who tease out the contradictions inherent in our barbaric and ignorant conception of drug policy, those are valuable voices to have in the discourse I think, and shouldn't just be automatically disregarded because there's a fear that some naive newcomer will privilege their voice/perspective over all of those who emphasize that heroin is indeed bad. In regards to Hart in particular, the first time I encountered him was in that film "The House I Live In" (great documentary BTW, one of my favorites) and I've read some of his work since...tbh I've never really been impressed with him as a writer, and some of his takes have just been bad, IMO. But I do respect that fact that he's a public person who's willingly put himself out there to violate the taboo of discussing recreational drug use, essentially. Yes, there are individuals out there "high-functioning drug users"...William Halsted was another famous example...and probably there would be many more if we had a sane public policy regarding drugs. But that's not the world we live in and, if you develop a taste for these kinds of drugs, it's almost a near-certainty that you'll develop serious problems down the line.

But, at the same time, it's just not right to claim that such people do not exist, or even that the majority of users of [insert drug] are NOT physically-dependent drug addicts, at any given time, simply to perpetuate the mystified "official narrative" of any illegal drug you care to name, for the admittedly-well intentioned reason of keeping naive (or arrogant, in the vein of "I know I'm strong enough to never get addicted, just like all these other high-functioning drug addicts!" people from experimenting, in potentially harmful or disastrous ways, with an illegal drug.

Drug use or misuse for any one person occurs at a confluence of physiological, social, legal, cultural and other factors...I support a radical overhaul of public policy regarding drugs in this country, as I know others here do as well. I've also seen the destructive and fatal consequences of drug abuse, so I sympathize with those emphasizing that & who may be more wary about entertaining other conceptions of the issue

Honestly, I can't stop her from saying what she says here, that's her thing, and she's allowed to post whatever. But these people are looking for an excuse or information, while they read this, and she's delivering an excuse. More than that an excuse full of anecdotal first-hand experience, that people will take as "that's going to be my experience", but then it's not.

I just asked if she could stop being SO supportive, completely ignoring any bad sides in most of her posts, and yes, people are reacting to that. Why not tell your firsthand experience, and add how this IS FUCKING RARE? Na, she's like "just try it. it's awesome". That's HR or what?..

I would feel terrible about these posts if they were mine. Defending the poor, little, misunderstood heroin against the evil, abusive mankind, too weak to control themselves. That's what it sounds like.

 

[December Flower]

Like what happens if you WD @Olivia Nicole ?
How many friends have you lost?
How often have you ODd?
How are your veins?
How fucked up are your (mu)opioid receptors?

At least add anything balanced, if you want to be the person that brings "the balance" here, because if I didn't know better, I'd take you for an army recruiter. They also ignore the facts about how most soldiers come back with PTSD, being shot or worse. Just focus on this one soldier(that never saw war, but we don't say that) and look how strong and great and happy he is.

What's so great about a life where your body is unable to process body-own opioids and NEEDS a drug to exist, or your entire life-drive would be shot down without it? What happens if you stop, tell me. That's good existance?! Dependance for life?! That's what you're promoting is so awesome?!

 

[dalpat077]

Morning.

There's some great posts on this thread since yesterday. Again. Not going to quote all of them i.e. I'll be on this thread for the rest of the day if I attempted to do that!

I sort of get where @Olivia Nicole is coming from now. It should be talked about. But then again: that's what we're doing here already is it not?

The main thing here for me is the context. The question is (and the topic of the thread is) "Should I try Heroin". In my experience such questions are asked by people who are already curious and want to try something and are looking for an excuse or reason to not do so. And if they've not been given good enough reasons not to or have been presented with a so-called balanced view on the topic well then there's a potential problem in the making right there. And has been noted: there's hundreds if not thousands of threads and posts from current or past users and nowhere, other than on this thread, have I seen it being a recommended course of action. And at the risk of repeating myself: it's the one substance where this appears to be universal. And for me: that tells a story in and of itself.

As for functioning addicts not posting. That's probably very true. There's probably hundreds of thousands of functioning Heroin addicts and that don't even know about these forums etc. But they're still addicts. And please believe me when I say I'm not being condescending or judgmental here i.e. just stating things based on what I've learned here. As I understand things: they need to use in order to be functional because of the physical dependence. This as opposed to using at will and out of choice just for a good time. Maybe an oversimplification on my part (so all functional Heroin addicts feel free to take potshots at me i.e. as always open to learning and getting new perspectives on things).

As for discussing it in order to destigmatize the use of all substances including Heroin: probably not prudent here on this thread. But to me there's a fine line between destigmatization and desensitization. There's some dude on YouTube (I'll find the dude's channel if anybody is interested) that seems to have made it his life's work to make short videos almost on a daily basis of addicts in Philadelphia. And when I watch this stuff I cannot help but wonder: so if these people have safe supply etc. what then? Point being is that there has to be some type of follow-up on a socioeconomic level and I never see that being mentioned. Anyway. This last paragraph way further off topic than I intended. Sorry. And not sure I've much more to contribute to this debate.

 

[December Flower]

The main thing here for me is the context. The question is (and the topic of the thread is) "Should I try Heroin". In my experience such questions are asked by people who are already curious and want to try something and are looking for an excuse or reason to not do so. And if they've not been given good enough reasons not to or have been presented with a so-called balanced view on the topic well then there's a potential problem in the making right there.

I like that you get where I'm aiming at.
There's a bunch of threads where her posts would be very welcome, I'm sure she has strong strategies of how to not fall into the rabbit hole entirely, but this is not really the place, is it? And I really don't want to be an ass to @Olivia Nicole , and I'm really sorry if this hurts you in any way - I'm scared of the impact you might be having/have already had in the past. It's like @JessFR said: We don't promote Russian Roulette, just because 5 out of 6 people survive it.

I'm really really just worried about people reading this who are weighing it over, "should i or shouldn't i?", and this one super positive comment might be what tips the scale. We like to see ourselves in the people we experience, and we like to attribute ourselves strengths we don't have, if someone else has them. It doesn't have to be like that, sure, but there's a big possibility after all, given where this is being posted repeatedly.

Honestly, it would scare me so much that someone could take these words and develop them into a reason to do it, even if it's just one person. My friend also informed himself through blogs and forums, too, and he came to the conclusion that it's harmless, and it's all just media bullshit. Now he's dead. Might be, why I'm getting so emotional about this, but I can't shake the feeling that these kind of posts are dangerous