Opioids I want to use opioids but I'm on suboxone

[WellTram]

I was never on buprenorphine long term but people use tramadol while on it sometimes it works they say...and maybe other atypical opioids can work too but they probably provide u with their other then opioid effects while u are on buprenorphine. SRA + SNRI etc tramadol effect is actually very noticable and can be simmilar to low dose of amphetamine. But no it is not safe.

 

[4DQSAR]

Mostly buprenorphine is simply a competitive partial agonist. I assume if one has a sufficient quantity of an opioid with a similiar or higher affinity, they would compete (although the mean receptor-occupancy time might mean that buprenorphine stops the flash of an IV opioid.

But if someone has made it to buprenorphine, isn't the goal to eventially stop needing to consume opioids?

I can only say that I've talked to both police officers and probation officers who noted that people who went through full 'cold turkey' appeared less likely to return to opioids. I suppose the point being the sheer horror of the experience 'rewires' the consciousness to produce aversion to all opioids.

 

[WellTram]

Mostly buprenorphine is simply a competitive partial agonist. I assume if one has a sufficient quantity of an opioid with a similiar or higher affinity, they would compete (although the mean receptor-occupancy time might mean that buprenorphine stops the flash of an IV opioid.

But if someone has made it to buprenorphine, isn't the goal to eventially stop needing to consume opioids?

I can only say that I've talked to both police officers and probation officers who noted that people who went through full 'cold turkey' appeared less likely to return to opioids. I suppose the point being the sheer horror of the experience 'rewires' the consciousness to produce aversion to all opioids.

I did a lot of pure hydromorphone for example...had fentanyl and basically everything except levomorphan, methadone and very rare ones...And buprenorphine was so potent i couldnt pee..Smoking ton of pure hydromorphone made me so high it was in heaven but i still could at least pee...But buprenorphine must have extremely high affinity...U would probably have to consume a lot of some fentanyl derivatives to overpower buprenorphine....or fentanyl + some atypical...

And yes I agree that using buprenorphine as a substitution for other opioids should be enough to be satisfied and if u are not, maybe your tolerance is super high and using different drug on top of it - maybe just simple cannabis would be more effective than using other opioids on top of buprenorphine...Sure 1000mg of tramadol will make u feel something atypical but u will also suffer brain damage from seizure....
Try to look for uppers, psychedelics or cannabis...Downers are risky and opioids won't make u any higher cause u already are high on buprenorphine u just can't notice it now

 

[SoCalShordie]

Hey fellow blueys!
I'm a former heroin addict and I've been on suboxone for the past 3 years now. I'm currently on 12mg down from 24mg and I live in Australia. The only reason that is relevant is because the way the suboxone program works here is you start off having to go to the chemist everyday to recieve your dose and they have to supervise you taking it. After a month or so of that, they only have to supervise one dose and give you 6 "take aways" and you onlg have to go weekly. I'm currently sitting on a cache of 14 × 20mg of Targin (oxycodone 20mg/naloxone 10mg) and I want to experience that warmth again.

During the weeks after my supervised dose I have been tapering my dose down to 2-4mg a day (excluding the one day a week i have to go to the chemist). I'm well aware of buprenorphines binding affinity is stronger than naloxones, and it can take anywhere from 72 hours to a over week to completely clear your system of suboxone, also depending on the variables of metabolism and amount of time on suboxone. Last time I tried this I took 320mg of oxy, 360mg of codeine with some tarpentadol after waiting three days after my dose and it wasn't very noticeable and wasn't worth the withdrawal, but I also didn't taper my bupe down beforehand. But now I have 280mg of oxy and I want to make the most of them, so my plan is to keep my dose below 2mg during those 6 days before I go back to the chemist and see how that goes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I could best go about this? I know a fair bit about suboxone given how long I've been on it and how much I frequent this site, but I still have a lot more to learn. Is there any way this could be done or should I just come off the bupe? Or maybe even switch to Methadone?

Thank you all for any and all input, and stay safe out there. xo

Yeah, not gonna happen babe. You will never feel the effects of the good stuff while subs in your system. I’ve been there too. That’s why suboxone never worked for me. The cravings were so intense and relapsing meant just wasting money and not getting high.

I switched to methadone and honestly it saved my life. It has enough of a buzz that you don’t have cravings. Never got that with suboxone. I never thought I’d live to see the day without a craving. But I got on methadone for a couple years, tapered off, and now I have around 5 years completely free of opiates. Not one relapse, not one craving since. I say you give methadone a try. It could have the same outcome for you.

Message me if you ever have any questions

 

[puke]

U know when I was on methadone I heard quite a few times people tell me u can't get high on dope while on methadone, like it counteracts it or something. Welp I'm telling u I could and that's why I would still occassionally do it an not have to worry about wds. People must say that to just kinda boogeyman u out of doing it telling u it won't work. Oh use to be on 100 mg and have been off 16 years now off methadone, can't believe it's been that long already.

 

[4DQSAR]

@WellTram - opioids do that to people. A simple alpha blocker is usually sufficent to solve the problem.

 

[WellTram]

@WellTram - opioids do that to people. A simple alpha blocker is usually sufficent to solve the problem.

U mean, taking an alpha blocker solve the "not being able to pee" problem ? I didn't have this problem now for many years if i take anything but if i knew this in the past, it would helped me a lot.

 

[4DQSAR]

U mean, taking an alpha blocker solve the "not being able to pee" problem ? I didn't have this problem now for many years if i take anything but if i knew this in the past, it would helped me a lot.

In response to your points - Yes and yes, it happens. It can be limited to certain opioids. I had two extremely painful experiences with tramdol.

You might think after being hospitalised a first time my clinician may have finally conceded that plain codeine or even dihydrocodeine would be better options. But no.

It was only because the same doctor in the hospital asked me why I was back with a week and being informed my GP refused to substitute that words were evidently exchanged and a formal letter sent.

As if I would be taking either of those very weak opioid for a buzz? Insane. Anyway my GP left the profession and became an aromatherapist of all things. I strongly suspect he KNEW he was getting so many formal complaints, it was better to change profession that be struck off.

 

[WellTram]

In response to your points - Yes and yes, it happens. It can be limited to certain opioids. I had two extremely painful experiences with tramdol.

You might think after being hospitalised a first time my clinician may have finally conceded that plain codeine or even dihydrocodeine would be better options. But no.

It was only because the same doctor in the hospital asked me why I was back with a week and being informed my GP refused to substitute that words were evidently exchanged and a formal letter sent.

As if I would be taking either of those very weak opioid for a buzz? Insane. Anyway my GP left the profession and became an aromatherapist of all things. I strongly suspect he KNEW he was getting so many formal complaints, it was better to change profession that be struck off.

I am mostly prescribed dihydrocodeine but they do rotations with morphine and once in a while with tramadol - i should not take it cause my epi risk is higher so they changed my main prescription to dihydrocodeine and for me it workes better than morphine. It's actually my second fabourite after hydromorphone. Tramadol works too but every day it has different potency so my liver enzymes probably work differently every day.

 

[4DQSAR]

Wow - rotating opioids has pretty much been discredited, unless it's specific to your case.

I have to remind people that as synthesized, tramadol is in fact FOUR stereoisomers, the cis-pair being used medically. The bizarre thing is that the (1R, 2R) aka (+)-cis enantiomer, the semi-rigid homologue of codeine is responsible for almost 100% of the analgesia in man.

I have posted how cheap tramadol is and how simple it is to resolve those two cis isomers and then how simple to O-demethylate - (+)-cis ODMT having been shown to be around 2.5x more potent as an analgesic in man (orally). I would guess via paretheral administration and based on animal models it's a lot like morphine i.e. five times as active.

So why then is the cis-pair still the only form used medically? Because it was only ever sold as 'less abusable than codeine' without anyone adding 'oh yeah, also vastly more toxic in overdose'.

We had a mini-epidemic of mostly young people dying because they were messing with codeine phosphate tablets where a strip of 10 x 30mg provided them with a decent 'buzz' and street-wisdom suggested that 10 x 50mg tramadol should have more or less the same effect. So sad to say a lot of kids ended up dead - seizures being common.

 

[WellTram]

Wow - rotating opioids has pretty much been discredited, unless it's specific to your case.

I have to remind people that as synthesized, tramadol is in fact FOUR stereoisomers, the cis-pair being used medically. The bizarre thing is that the (1R, 2R) aka (+)-cis enantiomer, the semi-rigid homologue of codeine is responsible for almost 100% of the analgesia in man.

I have posted how cheap tramadol is and how simple it is to resolve those two cis isomers and then how simple to O-demethylate - (+)-cis ODMT having been shown to be around 2.5x more potent as an analgesic in man (orally). I would guess via paretheral administration and based on animal models it's a lot like morphine i.e. five times as active.

So why then is the cis-pair still the only form used medically? Because it was only ever sold as 'less abusable than codeine' without anyone adding 'oh yeah, also vastly more toxic in overdose'.

We had a mini-epidemic of mostly young people dying because they were messing with codeine phosphate tablets where a strip of 10 x 30mg provided them with a decent 'buzz' and street-wisdom suggested that 10 x 50mg tramadol should have more or less the same effect. So sad to say a lot of kids ended up dead - seizures being common.

Your tramadol safety concerns and also the enantiomeric part of your post is very true.
This seizures are preventable ( if u are lucky and some antiepileptic med will do absolutely nothig except only one effect - eliminating seizures completely. Which I am lucky in this situation ).

Many ultra rapid metabolisers are able to achieve long and semi amphetamine-like hybridhigh with tramadol, feeling ENERGY, EMPATHY, very intense opioid effects later when u have been through 3 hpurs of the high it can provide. I loved it but it is unfortunately more toxic then for example codeine phosphate. Yes it's true and it is also really cheap to produce compared to other mild ( if recommended doses are taken ) opioids.

Rotrating is not done usually.
My doctors from private algesiology clinic and me realised after a while that for me it does help preventing tolerance from getting higher but like i mentioned, morphine which they chose do less for me compared to dihydrocodeine and tramadol is used only after 2 rotations of previous were done because while it works for me it is dangerous because of seizures. I had many seizures, some of them while falling down the stairs. I had to learn how to write again after one

Classic codeine works for me too but for some another individual reason i coudn't stop tolerance to build RAPIDLY and they also say it is not very effective after certain dose because enzymatic metabolism to more potent metabolites is often reduced by the codeine - simply they know that codeine can prevent itselt from turning into morphine ( and others ). Tramadol do not have this disadvantage but it has even worse one - seizures.

So...after not even oxycodone was doing much for me and not wanting to go into hydromorphone again we made decision than dihydrocodeine is my individual preffered option.
And we tried many, i am on prescriptions for many years now...

Drugs including opioids can be very individualy different in effects.
Somebody would take oxy immediately rather than other choices but i found the best effects, most positive effects and least negative with dihydrocodeine which is quite poorly described in literature. U need to dig deepet to find the right descriptions ( i mean research proved descriptions like potency to receptors, half-life, bioavailability and metabolism into many metabolites....

Just try to find the righ one for YOU and avoid very appealing ones not because they can't be used safely but to use them when something serious happens and suddenly your casual painkillers will not help.
Just my advice.

Have a nice and healthy day everybody.