[MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke

[Pegasus]

^Good post, I agree the stress of the situation is often to blame.

I'm gonna bump this over to the Cannabis forum with the rest of the RC cannabinoid discussion.

 

[LimberLambda]

Ah, thanks a lot. And here I thought I was being novel and clever...

 

[perKeceT]

this stuff isnt good for your mind. my brother smokes pure AM2201 every day and even when he isnt on it hes clearly not all there mentally. there are no long term studies on the effects of these drugs and they are very dangerous and unpredictable.

 

[purple_cloud]

Thanks for sending this over to CD guys...I'm gonna move it into our synthetic cannabinoid MEGA thread, since we try to keep all synthetic discussion in there

 

[eLeSaH]

this stuff isnt good for your mind. my brother smokes pure AM2201 every day and even when he isnt on it hes clearly not all there mentally. there are no long term studies on the effects of these drugs and they are very dangerous and unpredictable.

Maybe you should talk to your brother WHY he needs to do it every day. Too much stress in real life?

 

[Chainer]

So, I tried reading more on this and found no actual scientific studies on this stuff (if you know of any, a link would be greatly appreciated).

Did you read the first page? The first post? There are none, this is a RESEARCH CHEMICAL.

Basically, I'm looking for anyone else's post-use experiences, or any ideas on this.

There are about 50 pages of information in this thread and the previous thread. Searching or checking the Cannabis Directory, found in my signature, will help you locate the previous version.

Or if anyone knows what the hell is even in this spice stuff, seeing as JWH-018 and a couple other simmilar cannabanoids are now illegal in the US, wondering what the hell they spray on this stuff. Hell, I can't even find the name of a manufacturer.

This is exactly the reason why I tell everyone to AVOID PREMADE BLENDS. You have no idea what they use, and it has been reported several times that they use the waste and toxic from the synthesis process for JWH/CP/whatever. It's toxic.

As for a manufacturer, check every college chemists student's basement; John W. Huffman (hence the name, JWH) has remarked at how easy it is for anyone with basic chemistry knowledge to produce JWH.

Use of this drug is a very firm YMMV. For instance, I've been smoking synthetic powders for over a year now, less regularly now then when I started. I only smoked a pre-made blend once before writing it off completely (that stuff is garbage and far, far, far, far more expensive), and I have never noticed any side effects. My roommate smoked a cig covered in JWH, assuming he would handle it as well as I do, and he ended up in the hospital (paranoia + vomiting).

 

[Chainer]

I know that the first part of this thread says only to use pure acetone, but I'm guessing that the reason behind this is because the acetone evaporates readily and the compounds are very soluble in it. The liquid in these electronic cigarette cartridges, however, are made of propylene glycol mixed with water, nicotine, and flavoring. So the question is, would any cannabinoids be soluble in propylene glycol, and if so do the atomizers in electronic cigarettes produce enough heat to vaporize the compound?

I spent months trying to figure out a way to use JWH in my e-cig, Mega Yeti-510 and The Screwdriver. I wrote up paragraphs on theories on how to do this, as there was -NO- information on how. I finally found out a way, but to make it properly potent per drop, the amounts I needed to use were simply too high. I ended up just putting the powder right on top of the attonomizer, which worked, but also fucked up the atty within 2 weeks. You're going to need a strong battery and atty for this to work at all, though, not some cheap e-cig from a mall or those overmarketed BLU e-cigs.

And yes, you are right about the acetone... and no, none are soluable in PG, but some are in VG. The stupidly hard part is getting the mixture down so that each drop delivers the desired about (I went for 10mg/ drop, it ended up being a mess).

If you figure it out, let me know, I'd love to find out how to do this properly, but it seems nobody else has tried this like I have... at least that was the situation 8+ months ago when I tried it.

Edit: I found it. Here's the thread I opened a while back when I hit a road block. That's probably the best source for information on this subject you can find, I know it was at the time.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I see theres a legal product being advertised by an internet vendor; said to be made from Damiana herb with added chemicals AM-694 and AM-2201. Anyone have any thoughts what this might be like, or have they tried it ?

 

[Chainer]

Haven't tried it, but I assume it would be a pretty mellow ride for a little longer then most JWH varients. Damania is a tasty plant, IMO. I wouldn't bother ever using any pre-made blends, but at least they bothered to tell you what the active ingredients were... although you can't be certain that is what they really are. I prefer my JWH compounds to the AM or CP series, but a nice mix of JWH and AM can be very enjoyable.

Like always, I suggest you do the searching yourself, as many reports will differ from one another even on the same substance. I also HIGHLY suggest you scrap the idea of buying pre-packaged blends all together and just find the raw, pure chemicals you desire and make your own blends. It's super easy and a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of what you'd be paying. Generally a pre-packaged blend of 3-5 grams runs about the same price as a gram or two of PURE PRODUCT, depending on vendor and variant.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

^^ Thanks for the reply, good to hear the stuff will likely be pretty mellow. I will bear your other advice in mind. As i am just an occasional dabbler in cannaboids these days i think i will probably just get a small sample of the product as it is, as its very convenient and easy all ready made , but if i like the stuff enough to even consider getting any more then I'll definately be doing as you suggest..

 

[crOOk]

Has anyone tried dissolving them in low proof ethanol and administering the solution rectally?

 

[Kenaz]

Has anyone else noticed that the new (AM-xxx) smoking blends are particularly harsh on the lungs? The batches I've picked up post-018 ban have left me wheezing like a Catholic priest at a choirboy convention. I never had a particular problem with any of the JWH-*** compounds, and have generally found that cannabis helps rather than triggers my asthma. But every recent blend I've tried -- from gas station specials to lovingly-crafted artisanal mixes -- has been hell on my respiratory system.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I see theres a legal product being advertised by an internet vendor; said to be made from Damiana herb with added chemicals AM-694 and AM-2201. Anyone have any thoughts what this might be like, or have they tried it ?

I don't know how "legal" that is going to be, might depend on the state.

ZZ-1 so far and the 0-XXX destinations are one of the few frontiers left as far as things that are not analogs of already illegal substances.
Also, some laws (like here in PA) are worded to include ANY substance that produces similar results to the now illegal JWH chemical destinations, so Damiana with those substances could still be considered illegal to posses and consume.

Here is some info on that:

MPPP;4’-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone
;(RS)-1-(4-methylphenyl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-1-propanone

4’-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MPPP) is a stimulant drug. It is very
structurally similar to α-PPP, with only one added methyl group in the para position
on the phenyl ring. MPPP was sold in Germany as a designer drug in the late 1990s and
early 2000s,[1][2][3] along with a number of other pyrrolidinophenone derivatives.[4][5]
Although it has never achieved the same international popularity as its better-known
relations α-PPP and MDPV, MPPP is still sometimes found as an ingredient of
grey-market

α-Pyrrolidinopropiophenone (α-PPP)
4’-Methoxy-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MOPPP)
3,4-Methylenedioxy-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MDPPP)
3’,4’-Methylenedioxy-α-pyrrolidinobutiophenone (MDPBP)

Systematic (IUPAC) name RS)-1-(4-methylphenyl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-1-propanone

Formula C14H19NO
Mol. mass 217.306 g/mol

(cab this be confirmed by any labs?)!!!

The only loophole in the law I have found is food products that ARE for consumption and additives that produce similar effects to cannabinoids by producing and sustaining ananadamide levels in the brain and targeting the same receptors as THC, these are the two available naturally occurring additives that can be added to fatty chocolate as a catalyst, * read Beltramo, and D. Piomelli "Brain cannabinoids in chocolat" for info.

N-oleoylethanolamine and N-linoleoylethanolamine.

like a said only a few available avenues of legitimate research left in the US so far they can't regulate chemicals the brain naturally procuces, got to be very careful in interpreting the individual laws in your own states.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Has anyone else noticed that the new (AM-xxx) smoking blends are particularly harsh on the lungs? The batches I've picked up post-018 ban have left me wheezing like a Catholic priest at a choirboy convention. I never had a particular problem with any of the JWH-*** compounds, and have generally found that cannabis helps rather than triggers my asthma. But every recent blend I've tried -- from gas station specials to lovingly-crafted artisanal mixes -- has been hell on my respiratory system.

there may be a scientific reason for that, at one point they were making variations that lacked a certain O ring which was supposed to cause cancer (jwh-250) was one of those that was missing the ring, with few destinations being left it is no doubt if all they are left with are the more potent/dangerous destinations which must be what the government wanted since they are on the kick to ban everything, the more documented overdoses and deaths they get from these newer supposedly still "legal" products the more they can push for permanent banning of all the other already schedule 1 substances and their analogs.

Remember many of these substances were around and being used for 10 years....(with little or no fan fare) that was a long stretch without mass "overdoses" or deaths....now in the last year since they pushed for the ban it has spiraled into more underage children using them (they are now cool and illegal) as well as adults having adverse effects from the many newer/stronger blends as the vendors push to keep their products legal, so what you have is stronger products that have not been tested for 10 years hitting the market which is exactly what Republicans and other tea party lawmakers want, they already increased funding to PA prisons 50% in my home state, they are ready.

are you?

Please don't buy the commercial stuff, don't contribute to their (the lawmakers) agenda, if you have to experiment on your monkey use available legal chemicals and your own solvents and substrates (I recommend EverClear and Damaina) look for safe doses in lab rat experiments available from University studies and go by weight of subject and doses to determine what is safe.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Has anyone tried dissolving them in low proof ethanol and administering the solution rectally?

Sure, I doubt anyone will admit it tho

 

[bobbycontract]

I do not see the allure of synthetic weed, I would just rather smoke the natural safe stuff. Am I the only one that feels this way or why do you smoke it?

 

[jeremysdemo]

well for one when I quit smoking pot (back in the 90's) the THC levels were up to 18% from 5~8% in the 60's, too me that stuff was just too strong (purple haze comes to mind) and rendered me incapacitated to preform my normal daily task, I prefer a mellow buzz not smoking myself retarded.
Secondly there is the manner in which it is commercially grown (unregulated) which means they can use any type of fertilizer and any types of pesticides on their crops (remember the US banned a bunch of pesticides and fertilizers because of birth defects) these compounds (1000's of tons of them) were likely sold off to third world countries which produce MJ.
A lot of people are concerned about their health these days so smoking anything actually is a detriment, however I would not suggest eating anything produces commercially because of the for mentioned possibility of chemical contaminants (like people get throat cancer from chewing tobacco) if one could grow their own and control the environment then eating bud could be organic and healthy but the space required to do such is large as well as the energy (for indoor growing) and water, one would need about 99 plants for a single persons oral supply a year, manufacturing MJ holds sever fines and time sentences not to mention they can take you children away from you if you have them.

All legalities aside the advantages to these synthetic cannabinoids as well as many others that produce cannabinoid like effects in the brain is for one space 10G of JWH-250 takes up about as much space as a small dimebag but can produce about 5.29oz of medium potency smoke when infused with Damiana, plus you have the advantage of having the raw compound which you could in theory infuse to any other substrate (tobacco for example) for digression in places smoking something that smells like pot would be frowned on as well as the advantage of making your smoke or oral product any level of potency a person desires and administered in any manner of way to the body without the higher risk of chemical contaminates associated with commercially grown MJ.
One of the other advantages was you didn't have to associate with the criminal element of MJ, but that is rapidly changing in most states as this formerly legal million dollar market has just been handed over to drug cartels.

The other advantage to some of them is their healing properties, if memory serves me correct one of the AM series is used to treat Old timers disease (my nickname for it) because it bonds with the free radicals that are stuck to the receptors in the brain and helps release them into the blood stream to be removed from the body thus restoring brain functionality when it comes to memory, so it's like health food for the brain, shame they illegalized it for "possession, consumption or distribution".

That's about all I got as far as pro's for synths and further research, that being said I am a pro MJ legalization supporter decade long member of NORML (not a famous member yet tee hee) because as far as I am concerned nature has the best formula already however it is not practical for every day use as long as it is illegal in the US and being produced the way it is and also because personally I don't want to support the drug cartels who control it's production and distribution, some of those are powerful people whom are dealing in a lot of other drugs and involved in many murderers, since 1999 my hands are clean of that, amen cross your heart and hope to live.

be safe and take care.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

@ Jeremysdemo. Thanks for the reply. I'm in the UK, not the US. It may be naive of me but if the vendor states the stuff gets through a legal loophole, then thats good enough for me. I'm not overly concerned about the legality issues.

Regarding the stuff itself, i tried it for the first time last night, at the tail end of a 48 hour binge, consisting of MDPV, MDAI, Spice, red wine & Etizolam. I took what i knew would be a knockout doze of etizolams to end the binge, but i thought ive probably got half an hour to play with before the downers send me to sleep. So i made a tiny spliff using just 3 small pinches of the stuff with a bit of tobacco at either end of the joint so as to minimise waste of the product.

My God thogh i was not atall prepared for what followed. I was absolutely knocked for six. Collapsed on the couch, moaning and rushing all over my body (never had huge rushes like that before), felt like a full colour firework display going off in my head. I have no idea if it was just the canniboid doing this, or a combination of everything i had taken potentiating everything else. This was slightly over the edge of being too intense to cope with, felt like coulours swirling in my head at at a hundred miles an hour, felt like it could be trippy, once my head cleared abit, if it was going to, and i wasnt sure if my mind was in the right place to cope with anything trippy, after such along binge. . Thankgod i had already taken the etizolams, and was starting to feel my mind calm right down. Just made it to bed, fell asleep immediately for 12 hours sold rest.

I definately wont be taking so much of the canniboids next time, as boy that is strong shit. And i will be taking mdai first to put my mind in a good, calm place. I wont be combing it with MDPV either, as that probably made the stuff madder than it would have been otherise.

Does my intense reaction to the stuff seem normal, or is probably just a result of taking it at tail end of a MDPV binge ?

 

[jeremysdemo]

well if it is AM-694 you got and tried that has the ability to build up in the system and be released at once due to it's possible metabolism to ω-fluoroalkanoic acids, studies of related compounds have shown this anyway.

There really isn't enough data on human use of the MDPV or AM-649 to know how they would react together but if I had to guess with a rudimentary education of the science behind it I would say it is possible for the two to have combined effects on the metabolism increasing the release or time in between intervals of the release which would explain the waves you describe.

synthetic cannabinoids are no joke and can be deadly,(not in the way the government and media wants to portray them) but in the way any concentrated substance is, I would recommend starting with the lowest possible dose and not mixing with any other chemicals till you know how the subjects body reacts.

 

[Chainer]

Please don't buy the commercial stuff, don't contribute to their (the lawmakers) agenda, if you have to experiment on your monkey use available legal chemicals and your own solvents and substrates (I recommend EverClear and Damaina) look for safe doses in lab rat experiments available from University studies and go by weight of subject and doses to determine what is safe.

lololol, ow my head. Who do you think pays for University studies? The government. Check out the psyc research opps and psychinfo.com and psycsearch. good luck finding any real studies on any of these compounds, it'll be a long time before any of us is able to determine what is "safe". None, that would be "safe". Also, relative weight/dosage information, which I doubt you will find, is a joke when talking about lab rats. Completely different everything, and this is not a psychoactive chemical that is causally linked to dosage/size - 15mg is 15mg regardless of if you are 4'7 or 5'11

I use 100% acetone, instead of everclear. Agree with most of what you said besides that last part, that's just fooling yourself. These are RCs - RESEARCH CHEMS. Don't be too shocked if you grow an extra pair of tits.