Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy 2C-I Thread - Take Two

[3rd_I_blind]

BTW, how much experience with psychedelics do you have? If you tripped just a few times, I wouldn't advise taking 2C-I at concert, because it is not really comfortable and good setting. 2C-I has side-effects(nausea & body-load), which are quite pronounced during come-up, and you won't be able to lie down if you wish, and vomiting won't be very comfortable too. Besides that, 2C-I is a psychedelic, it can cause difficult experiences, having such kind of trip can be indeed worthwhile, but not when you're in public setting.

You are right it is always better to be careful when considering psychedelics. However, in my extensive experience, I can't really consider 10 mg (or less) a true psychedelic, it is rather a stimulant with some soft psychedelic properties. Of course, every individual might react different. But if the OP has any experience with a true psychedelic whatsoever, I can't really imagine 10 mg 2C-I giving discomfort.

Bodyload and nausea are also - generally - dose-related, so although you definitely have a valid point, I was not really paying attention to the possibility of bodyload. Moreso because we hardly experience any bodyload on 2C-I, not even on ~20 mgs so I can't hardly expect (for myself) any problems on 10 mgs or less.

Well, the mentality that "hey I'm bored imma just grab my stash" can quickly lead to you very frequently doing drugs with the excuse that you were just bored and looking to liven up an evening.

This is more or less exactly what I meant. There's no problem with making something that is fun 'more fun' by taking some 2C-I of whatever else. But I don't really see the point in going to a boring concert, so you have to resort to drug use to at least have a bit of fun. That said, I'm sure most people have done this at least once in their lifetime. I just think drugs should be used to add extra joy to joyful activitities, not to 'ease the pain' of boredom.

Do you think I would even feel anything / be worth doing at 5-10 mg?

Unless you have a quite low susceptibility to 2C-I's effects, I can't imagine you won't feel anything at 10 mg. So it would definitely be worth doing, especially since it is also a mild social stimulant, meaning you are more likely to enjoy your company and lighten up the spirit with some nice jokes or whatever. Best advice would be to test how you feel under 10 mg at a more appropriate setting first, but being optimistic as I am I just can't foresee real problems with 10 mg 2C-I at a concert.

 

[any major dude]

lots of people find 10-12mg adequate for their tastes. Plenty of folks do enjoy taking significantly more, but "tripping" seems to start at around 8-10mg for most people. Much below ten and you'll probably just have a threshold type experience, or maybe a ++. As always though, YMMV

 

[DwayneHoover]

10mg is just too low to actually get any psychedelic effects. At that level it is just like some sort of upper. Might as well just drink a couple stiff cups of Starbucks and same the 2C-I for actual tripping. But to each his own I suppose.

 

[any major dude]

You're overestimating the commonality of your experience again dwayne

but yeah, these things are quite variable from person to person. I know a number of people that get decent visual & physical effects from 10-14mg, and at least one person that didn't notice much til 20mg. YMMV

 

[DwayneHoover]

Yes, AMD... I am not claiming to be some infallible oracle. OBVIOUSLY it is just my experience. MUST you whack my knuckles and insert involuntary disclaimers around EVERYTHING I say? Give your readers a little credit to understand what they are reading, they are not little children nor I the Pied Piper.... and give me a little respect to say what I feel like saying the way I feel like saying it... Blulight exists FOR THE MEMBERS NOT FOR THE MODERATORS... you are in OUR service remember.

Ok sorry <rant off>

I do love you by the way

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

Moderators are a little heavy in PD lol Humour bypasses are common

 

[allium]

I can't really consider 10 mg (or less) a true psychedelic, it is rather a stimulant with some soft psychedelic properties

Well, there are many people who don't get many psychedelic effects from 10-12 mg, but there are many people can trip on such dose. I underestimated the power of 2C-I untill I tried it. My first(and my girlfriend's first) PD was 2C-I. We both took 12 mg, and the experience was truly psychedeli(but difficult). I got some great(one of the most brilliant) visuals, I felt dissociated and emptied during the experience and I didn't had full control over the trip(though I didn't freakout). What is more important, I got certain "insights". Believe me, it was really impressive, but I am not a good writer to express it. As for my girlfriend, she didn't get any visuals, but she got strong mental effects, which not every psychonaut get from higher doses of more powerful psychedelics: extreme time dilation, (complete) loss of propriception, distortion of "body size"(she felt herself really small - like my finger). Again, I am not a good writer, but our experience was intense and profound, especially for just 12 mg of 2C-I.
Of course, first trips are always more magical, and I can handle 12 mg of 2C-I now fairly easily, and now I can't get such effects from this dose, but it is trippy for me.

Never underestimate the importance of set&setting and never underestimate the power of chemical. This sentence is not really for you, but for people who don't have much experience with PD.

Bodyload and nausea are also - generally - dose-related, so although you definitely have a valid point, I was not really paying attention to the possibility of bodyload. Moreso because we hardly experience any bodyload on 2C-I, not even on ~20 mgs so I can't hardly expect (for myself) any problems on 10 mgs or less.

It is indeed dose-related, and that's why I advise not to do doses higher than 12 mg. 2C-I is the most nauseating psychedelic I tried. Vomiting doesn't really correlate with comeup nausea, so I never puke on 2C-I, but it can be really uncomfortable.

This is more or less exactly what I meant. There's no problem with making something that is fun 'more fun' by taking some 2C-I of whatever else. But I don't really see the point in going to a boring concert, so you have to resort to drug use to at least have a bit of fun. That said, I'm sure most people have done this at least once in their lifetime. I just think drugs should be used to add extra joy to joyful activitities, not to 'ease the pain' of boredom.

This definetely makes sense.

Instead of taking 2C-I in uncomfortable setting(at concert), why not just stay at home and take the same dose?

Best advice would be to test how you feel under 10 mg at a more appropriate setting first

This advice is definitely good, especially is skazz don't have much psychedelic experience.
I advice the same thing, but with paying attention to tolerance(in its usual sense).

Blulight exists FOR THE MEMBERS NOT FOR THE MODERATORS...

Moderators are members too. And one of the goal of bluelight is harm reduction. IMO, it is better if someone takes 8-12 mg of 2C-I and get underwhelming results rather than if someone takes 20 mg of 2C-I and freak out, ruining not only his fun but also fun for other people.

Also, I think your recent comments in this thread can be interpreted like if they are about general tendencies, because you didn't state clearly that they are based on your experience. So I think any_major_dude left his response because he interpreted your comments in this way.

EDIT: sorry if I am pain in the neck.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I think it is a general tendency if you read alot of trip reports that MOST people will find 10mg mainly stimulating and only very mildly psychedelic, if at all. That will be the average response to that dose IN MY OPINION of course. Duh. Nice that you got major psychedelia from only 10 but that's not really typical in my experience AND in reading peoples' reports. My "name" is on this. I am saying it. OBVIOUSLY it is only my opinion. Again, duh!

 

[skazz]

So whats up with the nausea? It sounds like 10 mg can make some people really nauseous and some people wont even feel nausea at 20 mg? Does eating a lot or fasting before hand have an effect on this?

 

[greenmeanies]

the side effects of each 2C-X will depend on body chemistry as well as stomach contents. check out the other thread right now about staggering doses, it contains more info on the nausea side of things.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Empty stomach (no food for 3 hours prior) helps. So does smoking pot.

 

[skazz]

How does an empty stomach help? If staggering the dose helps wouldnt having some food in your stomach slow the absorption and ease the nausea?

 

[DwayneHoover]

staggering dose just makes it not work as well... activity depends more on peak concentration not total amount. why it helps, I dunno, I guess maybe because then it gets thru stomach into intestines and absorbed faster, so its sitting in there causing irritation (= nausea) for a much shorter period of time?

 

[allium]

^^ I wouldn't say that full stomach considerably slows absorbtion of 2Cs. I am almost 100% sure that psychedelic nausea related to activation of (5-HT) receptors in the brain; it is not normal nausea/stomach irritation, it is a "hallucination"(however, if you vomit - you vomit in reality)

I you have little experience with 2Cs, I would suggest having very light meal before the trip, so your stomach won't be full, but won't be absolutely empty.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

I am almost 100% sure that psychedelic nausea related to activation of (5-HT) receptors in the brain; it is not normal nausea/stomach irritation, it is a "hallucination"

It is quite likely that the majority of nausea experienced with psychedelics is related to 5-HT receptor activation. But this does not mean the nausea is a hallucination. Probably the highest density of 5-HT receptors can be found in the intestines, where they control motility. Activation of these receptors by a psychedelic would cause spasms in your intestines, leading to a nauseous feeling. Beside that, the chemoreceptor trigger zone (the area of your brain that controls vomiting) also contains 5-HT receptors. Since this area is more easily accessed than deeper parts of the brain (it's function is to puke out harmful shit, so makes sense it is relatively easy accessible), it is quite common for the nausea to come up before the experience is at it's peak.

Empty stomach means it is more likely for psychedelics to end up in your intestines, which can cause major discomfort. Therefore, an empty stomach is not advisable. A light meal about an hour before intake is usually perfect. You can also try and talk yourself through the nausea; realize it is only caused by activation of receptors and not because you are actually sick or ate something nasty. Once your trip reaches full intensity, the nausea usually fades out. Oh yeah, and puking won't really help in most cases, since the chemoreceptor trigger zone is still activated by the psychedelic in your blood i.e. brain.

 

[allium]

^ Really interesting, thanks for the explaination.

But this does not mean the nausea is a hallucination

Well, the feeling of nausea is real in the same sens in which seeing visuals is real, however visuals are considered hallucinations, so why nausea isn't?
Anyhow, I wasn't sure if it is possible to call nausea "hallucination", that's why I quoted it. It is very different from usual stomach discomfort, stomach ache, and usual nausea. Of course, YMMV.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and puking won't really help in most cases

I agree, but sometimes it provides great relief, and at least vomiting is ... well, "entartaining", so you don't have to tolerate this feeling in your stomach.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

Well, the feeling of nausea is real in the same sens in which seeing visuals is real, however visuals are considered hallucinations, so why nausea isn't?
Anyhow, I wasn't sure if it is possible to call nausea "hallucination", that's why I quoted it. It is very different from usual stomach discomfort, stomach ache, and usual nausea. Of course, YMMV.

Well, first of all, technically speaking, visuals are not hallucinations but pseudohallucinations. But that's more about semantics than anything else, so fuck it... But in light of this debate/discussion/whateveryawannacallit, it does make sense to come up with this argument. Visuals are a pseudohallucination, in that the user can easily distinguish them from what is real; you can't interact with visuals in a serious way. However, the nausea is (in the majority of cases) directly caused by activation of receptors in the gut or in the chemoreceptor trigger zone (CTZ). Therefore, it is indistinguishable from 'real' nausea, since that is also caused inside the gut or the CTZ. So the nausea could be regarded as a true hallucination, since it is indistinguishable from 'real' nausea. But since it is not a product of the mind, I think the term 'hallucination' is out of place here...

Vomiting might provide relief yes, but it is generally not a healthy thing to do. Also, you can easily trick yourself in some placebo-effect of having to vomit every time instead of just blocking out the nausea until it takes off on it's own. This is especially well-known (at least where I'm from) in the case of MDMA, where some users are absolutely convinced they have to puke almost every time to start up their roll. In my experience, people that know how the nausea originates are usually a lot less likely to experience it, and that fighting the nausea mentally (i.e. waiting it out and just think of something else) creates a sort of natural resistance to developing nausea in your next trip. That's why I prefer to elucidate the mechanism and telling people to just wait until the dope hits the mind, instead of going puking.

 

[thomas2laylum]

found 2c-i to be unpleasantly stimulating, almost more stimulating then psychedelic

gained lots of insights and was quite giggly, honest and humourous; mild empathy effects, but wasn't able to up the dose into any sort of visual effects due to the excess stimulation effects

perhaps it was the batch or my biochemistry (probably this) or the setting, but there was a good middle of the trip after i dosed a little more and it became rather uncomfortable, but drew calm in thinking through topics of spirituality. later it became quite euphoric and more trip like

perhaps with the 2c-b i will be trying soon i will stagger it with smaller doses at a time

worthwhile, but a bit uncomfortable
it made my spidey senses tingle

 

[Assphace]

i'll sometimes take valerian with my 2ci, it may just be placebo but it seems to cut down on a lot of the stimulation without affecting the trip much if at all

 

[DwayneHoover]

Empty stomach means it is more likely for psychedelics to end up in your intestines, which can cause major discomfort.

HUH? Were you high during basic biology class in grade school? Stomach primarily DIGESTS substances (but some minor absorption occurs here, though not much); intestines ABSORB nutrients/chems into the bloodstream.

So, any drug has really got to make it past stomach into the intestine to work... except for LSD which is active in such minute amounts that it IS absorbed across mucus membranes enough to start working immediately.

But a drug like 2C-I that needs 15-25mg to work, has pretty much got to make it to the intestine to be absorbed and function... therefore slowing down this process by having it mix with food in the stomach is counterproductive. You want the normally fairly rapid absorption of taking it with liquid on an empty or mostly empty stomach... a small snack is probably not going to affect it much, and may promote enzymes that make it absorb a little better possibly and if you are prone to nausea could help.

Personally I am not and have never once gotten nausea from 2C chems... friends who did it empty got off as expected within the hour... those who did it after a meal complained that they were not getting off, or only felt "a little something" 2-3 HOURS after consuming.