Lysergamides The Big & Dandy Non-LSD Ergoloids Blotter Thread

[literate]

That's the word he used.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Oh OK... LOL, then!

 

[any major dude]

IME "thumbprint" style doses last about 72hrs for acute effects, and there's some residual weirdness lingering for several weeks, but once the experience is integrated, back to normal(ish )

 

[SKL]

permatripping? Sounds like some druggie-lingo that someone in the DEA fantasized out of thin air as a PR thing? There is no such thing. Unless you mean the person became mentally ill, and some state of psychosis was triggered. But "permatripping"? That's pretty ridiculous, rather a juvenile expression IMO, no offense, but come on.

There is definitely such a thing as people who ate too much L and were never quite right in the head afterwards ... I dunno if you could correlate it to anything specifically wrong with them in a clinical sense, but it's definitely something that you can observe if you hang around festivals/raves/etc. Some schizotypal traits, HPPD-ish stuff, general weirdness ... ... but this has nothing really to do with the topic at hand. i think you can get to that place with any psychedelic, really, as it's more of a psychological thing than a pharmacological thing. The idea that people are "permatripping in a different way than people were permatripping in the 90s" is laughable.

 

[Jamshyd]

ITT: Attempts to make sense of the fact that no two trips will ever be 100% identical, and this is perfectly normal for any given psychedelic - LSD or otherwise, a la the pointless (IMHO) shroom-strain debate.

Sorry, didn't read entire thread but I'll throw my lots in with Amanitidine because he knows what he's talking about.

 

[amanitadine]

^^ Heh heh well I'm flattered good sir! Good to "see" you! I wanna know how things are, where yr at and such, but this aint the place. (off to go search...)

Cheers

 

[averagetool]

There is definitely such a thing as people who ate too much L and were never quite right in the head afterwards ... I dunno if you could correlate it to anything specifically wrong with them in a clinical sense, but it's definitely something that you can observe if you hang around festivals/raves/etc. Some schizotypal traits, HPPD-ish stuff, general weirdness ... ... but this has nothing really to do with the topic at hand. i think you can get to that place with any psychedelic, really, as it's more of a psychological thing than a pharmacological thing. The idea that people are "permatripping in a different way than people were permatripping in the 90s" is laughable.

I've heard that the psychosis may have something to do with the pineal gland being stuck open. Maybe that can happen on high doses with people who aren't prepared for ego loss? Just a thought! I know a girl who suffers from a more severe fear of public places than she had before she had what I would call an eye-opener of a trip! Some people just aren't prepared for it and bring some of the fear they develop during their trip back to reality with them!

 

[Roger&Me]

I've heard that the psychosis may have something to do with the pineal gland being stuck open.

God no 8( Psychosis caused by the ingestion of 5HT2A-agonist psychedelics is quite well documented and is not believed to involve the pineal gland in any way.

 

[Ismene]

There is definitely such a thing as people who ate too much L and were never quite right in the head afterwards ... I dunno if you could correlate it to anything specifically wrong with them in a clinical sense, but it's definitely something that you can observe if you hang around festivals/raves/etc.

Perhaps, but I think at least 99% of the cases you see at festivals where someone who only knows them through a friend of a friend and claims "he took too much acid and never came back" are highly doubtful.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

From the description of the GC/MS preparation--that it is from the aqueous extraction of a dose of this putative LS? lysergamide as laid on printed paper, probably many years ago--it seems like the spectrum might be unresolvable. Too much miscellaneous shit in the background, giving too low a signal to noise ratio.

That said, I am quite certain that I have consumed blotter (both printed/perforated and white-on-white) within the last decade that were both not (d)-N,N-diethyl-lysergamide (LSD) proper and were also clearly not a psychedelic amphetamine (DOX). The suggestions of N-sec-butyl-lysergamide and the N-pentyl-lysgeramide are pretty reasonable based upon the receptor binding profiles, discrimination potency and in vitro pharmacology (largely from the Nichols lab); but I don't know about the chemistry. As Nuke mentioned above, the largest mass peak doesn't really match up with what would be expected for a lysergamide compound.

I think it's safe to say, at any rate, most if not 99% of the stuff you find on blotters sold nowadays is not LSD. Real LSD lasts a solid 12 hours and is very anxiogenic. Also, its visuals only occur at relatively high doses and are slow moving. Startling flashes of insight are to be expected.

I wouldn't say that real d-LSD is always very anxiogenic--I've had L that was particularly anxiogenic during the come-up, but I have also had relatively neutral come-ups. I certainly agree with the duration bit: this potential lysergamide not-otherwise-specified is somewhat shorter in active duration. LSD itself does seem to have more of a psychostimulant effect, which may be interpreted as unpleasant 'tweakiness' by certain individuals (and may also contribute to the mania and paranoia of the stereotypical "dirty hippie schizotypal burnout" of drug war propaganda lore). The nature of the visuals is also a key differentiating factor in the experience of LSD proper versus our mystery ergoloid.

Edit: As for the comment that "99% of acid samples sold on the open market are not actually LSD," I call bullshit. Unless meant sarcastically, 99% (or even realistically, a majority of the market) is a ridiculous over-estimation. I would still say that this non-LSD psychedelic lysergamide is in the minority of blotter sold as LSD, but it did originate in the EU.

 

[userpurpose]

hey guys, my first post here.
I'm reading this topic trying to find out what I had, because, it can't be L.
I had hallucinations for more than 30h, language didn't have sense at times 30 hours after.
It's finally off now, it's verry pleasing to be back on earth.
My roommate had half of my dose, and it was well over 24h for him too.
I had several half doses of L on paper before this one, but no visions or anything. this was a paper too.
I used it two times, first time to take "whole thing" and both times sober, just first time I started drinkig when it started to kick in, because it started to feel too much, so I wanted to numb it a little, also, had some pills to relax, cause i was anxious.
So first time it was 15-18h, second time well over 30h.
It took about an hour to kick in, verry anxious both times during that period, but second time i knew how to deal with it. First time I had to take some pills for relaxation, a big dose actually, i was just calmer, but had hallucinations.
Second time I suspected that it might not be L cause it was way too long, I googled and found out that there's no way fo L to be that long, even for "non users".
So, can I post a pic of it here? i don't have any more, or plan to get some, but maybe someone could tell from a pic?
Shit was from amsterdam
Or I can try and sum up some words so maybe someone can tell by experience?
Also, shit tasted bitter. Too bad that i found after that "if it's bitter, it's a spitter"
it wasn't just bitter to me.

Thanks for helping, i'll be monitoring this subject and replying.

 

[moe.ron]

^you can post the pictures, but what you should do (if your located in the states) is go over to the North American social part of this sight and repost what you put here in the "Acid in America 2011" thread (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=547088) along with a pic, since your blotter definitely sounds like DOx. If anybody can, they might be able to help you.

 

[Solipsis]

I have read part of this thread before, sorry if I am repeating something said in the other part but how is it that in the very long discussions about clean vs. dirty LSD it is argumented that the explanation has to be placebo, since there are no LSD-like derivatives active in the microgram range... yet here we are talking about such derivatives, even if they are said to be as good as or better than LSD in terms of subjective effects.

Am I wrong to take this as a suggestion that it's not unthinkable at all anymore that there are similar compounds, equally potent, which are much LESS positive in effect?

God no 8( Psychosis caused by the ingestion of 5HT2A-agonist psychedelics is quite well documented and is not believed to involve the pineal gland in any way.

Apparently Nichols wrote an article about this saying that evidence supports the theory that there are two phases in the effects of LSD, one of which is stopped by 5-HT2A antagonists but the other one is only partially blocked. In that phase though haloperidol suddenly does have effect which acts through antidopaminergic action.
This suggests that D2 dopamine activity could account for at least part of psychotic reactions. I think that compounds that are unlike LSD in this respect might be less prone to cause psychotic reactions although even pure 5-HT2A agonism could most probably drive someone loopy.
Sometimes it is said that mushrooms have a somewhat smaller chance in this respect, perhaps that is because the action of the tryptamine alkaloids lack any dopaminergic component.

Just throwing some ideas around I don't mean to steer too much off-topic.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I have read part of this thread before, sorry if I am repeating something said in the other part but how is it that in the very long discussions about clean vs. dirty LSD it is argumented that the explanation has to be placebo, since there are no LSD-like derivatives active in the microgram range... yet here we are talking about such derivatives, even if they are said to be as good as or better than LSD in terms of subjective effects.

Am I wrong to take this as a suggestion that it's not unthinkable at all anymore that there are similar compounds, equally potent, which are much LESS positive in effect?




Apparently Nichols wrote an article about this saying that evidence supports the theory that there are two phases in the effects of LSD, one of which is stopped by 5-HT2A antagonists but the other one is only partially blocked. In that phase though haloperidol suddenly does have effect which acts through antidopaminergic action.
This suggests that D2 dopamine activity could account for at least part of psychotic reactions. I think that compounds that are unlike LSD in this respect might be less prone to cause psychotic reactions although even pure 5-HT2A agonism could most probably drive someone loopy.
Sometimes it is said that mushrooms have a somewhat smaller chance in this respect, perhaps that is because the action of the tryptamine alkaloids lack any dopaminergic component.

Just throwing some ideas around I don't mean to steer too much off-topic.

Perfectly on topic. What Ive been arguing for some time. The evidence and other scholarly info shows conclusively that the old "nothing else but pure LSD can fit on a blotter" mantra is PURE BS. WRONG. Total smarty-pants inaccurate presumptiveness. Obviously there are OTHER active compounds, proven here. And yes, solipsis, it is VERY logical as you say that:

"it's not unthinkable at all anymore that there are similar compounds, equally potent, which are much LESS positive in effect?"

Two thumbs up and two toes up! Thanks.

 

[IamMe90]

I don't think most people on PD think that there aren't compounds that can fit onto blotters, we see enough topics about blotters containing DOI/etc enough and I think most people here are savvy enough to know that LSD isn't the only psychedelic active in the microgram range...

 

[DwayneHoover]

Thanks IamMe90... but for a while there was a cadre of people who kept repeating over and over "its all totally real pure LSD, any and every divergence in effect is just all in your head, placebo, set/setting etc." Perhaps the evidence and other discussion here has for now quieted down that trend, which IMO only unintentionally assisted the bunk pushers.

 

[userpurpose]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
so, here's a pic of the trip that I took. 2 pcs.
Miligrams can fit on a blotter, no doubt, i talked to some friends who are pharmacists (pharmacy, legal drugs, not drugs drugs :D).

So, i googled dox, and a lot came out, since I had only half blotters of lsd(proven by others), but this new stuff I took was waaaaaaaaaaaay stronger, so some websites said that dox is a lot stronger.
I had really strong visions for normal time, could be lsd, like 3hrs, i had the presence of my third eye, saw with my eyes closed, felt like i could go back in time, my mind connected with my roommates, heavy telepathy, when roomie was holding beer and he almost started pouring it on the floor, i didn't say a thing just a thought and he would say okey, i can see it(looking in the other direction). We listend to new world simphony by dvorak, and muse (ressistance), and music was moving us back in time, actually, roomie didn't see that, just me and the girl. All three of us were trippin way over 24hr.
so it was 3-4hrs of really visionary out of the body experience, i felt like I woke up from "sleepwalking", waking up from life itself.
I was clinging on to the heat radiator in my room, it was way too hot to be held, i got burnt a bit, i felt like as long as i'm touching it, i have a password for going back to earth, because friends were totally out there and didn't understand anything. So radiator was my thing like the thing from inception(movie). It was hard being out there in a place with no time and space, and have to control theese two. they would go to the bathroom and after 2 songs (time didn't make sense, so i could understand song time) i would have to go and get them because they would look at the mirror a lot, or forgo where were they.
Don't get me wrong, i liked superstrong visions, and clarity, and understanding everyhing. But after 30hrs (4 hours heavy visions, and the rest was coming down and phylosophical, sometimes words woul loose sense) i started to wonder am I coming back EVER. That was a bit too much, since i didn't know that it could last that long.

 

[Hallucinogenius]

I am supposedly getting one tab of PRO-LAD and one of ALD-52 from a vendor. Ill post if i notice any differences to normal acid.

I might give it to a friend as a blind test, just tell him its acid and ask if he noticed any differences to the acid we normally get. So i dont placebo any differences.

Can an NMR test be done on a single blotter?

 

[Incunabula]

Sorry for exhuming a stinking corpse, but I just recently fell over this piece of information on another forum. And I though it needed a mention in this thread.

It´s quoted from Ron69. And it´s concerning scopolamine.

It’s apparently been added to some LSD in order to potentiate the effects of street acid. SWIM has come across LSD with scopolamine or atropine in it. It makes your face a little red and your eyes get super dilated and you feel a little dry. It’s actually quite a nice combination, very visual, more so than pure LSD is. The usual amount added to the acid is said to be about 20 micrograms (according to some old LSD chemists SWIM once chatted with, don’t know if it’s true or not). It doesn’t seem to be a common practice.

 

[psilocybonaut]

Miligrams can fit on a blotter, no doubt, i talked to some friends who are pharmacists

Since it's already been resurrected.....why would a pharmacist know ANYTHING about laying compounds onto paper? lol...