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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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jamesBrown said:
I dont thinik they have much actually research or data on the long term effects of using subutex or suboxone for long periods of time, since its fairly new to the medical world as a maintanence drug. Before it was only prescribed for short amounts of time in the form of Temgesic or Buprenex(spelling).

I think the only thing we know about long term use of bupe is that it causes dependancy just like any other opiate(except a littel different) but thats not even guaranteed and is more based on your daily dose level and the amount of time you have been on them.
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Yeah, if you have been OK for the first 4 years, I am sure that you will continue to be OK for some time.

By the way James, I tried IM buprenorphine. I rather enjoyed it, though I am still for the most part IVing.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Yeah, if you have been OK for the first 4 years, I am sure that you will continue to be OK for some time.

By the way James, I tried IM buprenorphine. I rather enjoyed it, though I am still for the most part IVing.
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Thats actually very interesting. Please keep me updated.

Unfortunately I need to go try to relieve my pain again so ill be back later on today maybe.

Laters.
 
just got back from the hospital after a near fatal asthma attack from which I lost 80% lung function. I have been on and off heroin for the last three months, about a book a day, with some sub breaks in between, the longest probably being a week.

I am debating whether suboxone is a good medication for me to be taking. On the one hand it does control cravings with me, at higher dosages, but not to the point of which I actually stop having cravings (mind you, I don't believe in miracle pills, so I can't blame subs for this). I've also recently found that no matter how much suboxone I take, and no matter the ROA, I can almost always get high within 24 hours or less, which is very strange because I used to have to wait a good four days to feel heroin, but yesterday, less than 24 hours after taking 24 mg, I shot 2 bags of not even very good dope, and I felt the effects. Granted they were not completely present, but they were definately there. I have of course taken into consideration that I have not given my body enough time to build up probably enough half life, but in the past, when I have been on 24 mg a day SL/sniffing, I still could get high within about 24 hours. Some might consider this lucky, I just think it's weird.

Since I've been back on the sub pretty much for almost a week now ( except for yesterday, and I havn't taken any so far today,) I'm thinking of trying to dramatically decrease my suboxone tolerance, using the SL route. I know it is going to be a hard thing to do, but luckily I've loaded up on benzo's.

My ideal goal really is to taper off the suboxone completely, or at least get to a place where I only dose small amounts once every other/3 day's. I'm not sure if this plan will work, but thanks to this site there are lots of tapering plans. I would eventually like to get to a place where I could go a week without any sub, and then if I get a craving, take a small amount, and relapse on that, rather than start a horrible downward spiral into heroin addiction, which I've found is completely unsustainable and obviously dangerous, especially considering my lung problems.

I would like to formally thank everyone here who has contributed, as the information on bluelight truly is invaluable. I do not trust my sub doctor, nor any doctor, when it comes to withdrawals of any sorts.

I also don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. Buprenorphine can work wonders for some people, I'm just not sure that a maintenance program is my best chance at recovery. That being said, I want to take this taper as slowly as possible. I know there are lots of taper plans here on this site, but if someone could point me in the direction of one that is particularly good, and lasts over the period of about a month or so, it would be truly appreciated.

Thanks once again to Bluelight and all its members.
 
Znegative said:
just got back from the hospital after a near fatal asthma attack from which I lost 80% lung function. I have been on and off heroin for the last three months, about a book a day, with some sub breaks in between, the longest probably being a week.

I am debating whether suboxone is a good medication for me to be taking. On the one hand it does control cravings with me, at higher dosages, but not to the point of which I actually stop having cravings (mind you, I don't believe in miracle pills, so I can't blame subs for this). I've also recently found that no matter how much suboxone I take, and no matter the ROA, I can almost always get high within 24 hours or less, which is very strange because I used to have to wait a good four days to feel heroin, but yesterday, less than 24 hours after taking 24 mg, I shot 2 bags of not even very good dope, and I felt the effects. Granted they were not completely present, but they were definately there. I have of course taken into consideration that I have not given my body enough time to build up probably enough half life, but in the past, when I have been on 24 mg a day SL/sniffing, I still could get high within about 24 hours. Some might consider this lucky, I just think it's weird.

Since I've been back on the sub pretty much for almost a week now ( except for yesterday, and I havn't taken any so far today,) I'm thinking of trying to dramatically decrease my suboxone tolerance, using the SL route. I know it is going to be a hard thing to do, but luckily I've loaded up on benzo's.

My ideal goal really is to taper off the suboxone completely, or at least get to a place where I only dose small amounts once every other/3 day's. I'm not sure if this plan will work, but thanks to this site there are lots of tapering plans. I would eventually like to get to a place where I could go a week without any sub, and then if I get a craving, take a small amount, and relapse on that, rather than start a horrible downward spiral into heroin addiction, which I've found is completely unsustainable and obviously dangerous, especially considering my lung problems.

I would like to formally thank everyone here who has contributed, as the information on bluelight truly is invaluable. I do not trust my sub doctor, nor any doctor, when it comes to withdrawals of any sorts.

I also don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. Buprenorphine can work wonders for some people, I'm just not sure that a maintenance program is my best chance at recovery. That being said, I want to take this taper as slowly as possible. I know there are lots of taper plans here on this site, but if someone could point me in the direction of one that is particularly good, and lasts over the period of about a month or so, it would be truly appreciated.

Thanks once again to Bluelight and all its members.
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What you are asking advice on is a VERY complicated situation.
Also, I have a question for you, why do you not want to taper quickly?...why must it be a slow taper? Are you worried that it will cause you discomfort or WD syndroms if you tapered quickly, because after you posted about how you have been using heroin and subs etc...I think you could immediately just start taking like 4 mg's and then within a week, be down to like 1.5mg's and then stay at or around that dose....maybe 0.5-1mg...maybe 2mg's. Whatever the sweet spot is for you. I think ALOOOOOOOT of people who want to taper down there suboxone dose because they dont want to take as much as they are rescribed think that its going to be a horrible experience coomparable too or worse than heroin WD's.....and that is just not true. The only way that could happen is if you have been consistently maintaining at a very high dose for a very long time, which you have not. Atleast you just told us that you have not. So it should be no problem guaranteed.
Allthough, if you wanna slow taper just for the hell of it and for no good reason at all, then go ahead, it wont hurt, it will just slow the process down. I cant tell you how many people I have given advice to about being able to taper much quicker down but they literally are just too scared too do it and they dont, but when the day comes when they finally grow a pair and drop down alot all of a sudden, they almost ALWAYS feel even better than they did before they dropped down. They actually begin to enjoy the benefits of low dose subs. And then they think..."what the hell was i so scared off?...why didnt i do this sooner?".
I dont understand those people anyway...I mean, you could VERY EASILY drop your dose down to like 4mg's like I said...immediately....and feel great...BUT, if for some weird reason you feel uncomfortable or something, all you gotta do is take more subs until you feel better. Maybe in like 2mg incriments until your fine. I think you would be suprised at how low you can go.
So....my point is that there is NOTHING to be afraid of in trying a quick drop down in your dose to 4mg's or less....you can always just take more if you need to(but im willing to bet you wont need to).
 
Znegative, I think aiming for bupe once every two days is a pretty reasonable aim to have. You're already to the point where you know your heroin habit is not sustainable, and you want to control cravings as much as possible from what I understand. Bupe certainly helps greatly with this, though for most part the satisfaction is not complete. However, it definitely seems to me to be the best option you have in front of you right now.

Getting the dose to your personal "sweet spot" is probably worth working towards as well. For most people, this seems to be around 2mg or less, and while this dose doesn't work well as a "blocking" dose, your desire to be clean seems to be dependent more on your personal willpower than bupe already (24 hours is not very long to have to wait to dose heroin...)

Good luck, and best wishes.
 
jamesBrown said:
I dont thinik they have much actually research or data on the long term effects of using subutex or suboxone for long periods of time, since its fairly new to the medical world as a maintanence drug. Before it was only prescribed for short amounts of time in the form of Temgesic or Buprenex(spelling).

I think the only thing we know about long term use of bupe is that it causes dependancy just like any other opiate(except a littel different) but thats not even guaranteed and is more based on your daily dose level and the amount of time you have been on them.
Click to expand...

I think that the lessened effects of bupe on hormones and sleep, breathing, etc, all point to bupe being a pretty safe compound for long-term usage. They also certainly did trials on the medication in its initial phases, which should have exposed any glaring issues.

If I was going to be on any opiate for a long period of time, I can't honestly think of one I'd rather be on than buprenorphine!
 
Pegasus said:
I think that the lessened effects of bupe on hormones and sleep, breathing, etc, all point to bupe being a pretty safe compound for long-term usage. They also certainly did trials on the medication in its initial phases, which should have exposed any glaring issues.

If I was going to be on any opiate for a long period of time, I can't honestly think of one I'd rather be on than buprenorphine!
Click to expand...

I agree. bupe would be a great drug to choose when picking an opiate to be on for the long term. But, to be honest, I might actually choose methadone over bupe, as long as that BS about daily visits is gone and I could get monthly scripts. That would be sweet. I would probably do a rollercoaster maintanence and start at like 40mg's/day and then move to 60mg's/day a few days later, and then 80 and then 100, and then 80 again and then 60 and then 40...and back and forth like that. I think that would allow me to get some euphoria from the methadone(cuz we all know that after a certain period of time of being at a certain dose you eventually stop "feeling" the "goodness" of it). But if you are constantly moving your dose up, you will get more and more out of your methadone, and then I will peak at 100mg's, and then slowly move it back down to 40 over the course of 3 or so weeks, and then back up again for the mild euphoria. Its called "mixing it up" I believe...hehe
 
^ this is a good idea, and i would be curious at the effectiveness of it.....have you heard anything james baby?

1 mg today, and i snorted 1mg last night.....most euphoria I have received from bupe thus far.....it was quite the great experience. I think being at 1mg SL everyday is starting to get even better....if thats possible....

edit....it was .5mg
 
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SkagKush said:
^ this is a good idea, and i would be curious at the effectiveness of it.....have you heard anything james baby?

1 mg today, and i snorted 1mg last night.....most euphoria I have received from bupe thus far.....it was quite the great experience. I think being at 1mg SL everyday is starting to get even better....if thats possible....
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I havent really ever heard of that, I just made it up.

....and I told you that you would enjoy dropping down to that lower dose. I promised and I delivered(wel the subs did). It took you forever, you always had an excuse as to why u should not lower ur dose yet, and now look what happened...hoorah.
 
Pegasus said:
I think that the lessened effects of bupe on hormones and sleep, breathing, etc, all point to bupe being a pretty safe compound for long-term usage. They also certainly did trials on the medication in its initial phases, which should have exposed any glaring issues.

If I was going to be on any opiate for a long period of time, I can't honestly think of one I'd rather be on than buprenorphine!
Click to expand...

I agree, I also think buprenorphine has a limited effect on hormones due to being a partial agonist. Methadone is apparently just as bad as other full agonists if not worse, when it comes to the way it will repress your endogenous hormonal levels.
 
at james....... i had a few slip ups yes..... and i dropped down when comfy, i didnt wanna rush anything..... i had no real reason to.....
 
^ i will probably attempt once i acquire some micron filters........

edit....james... that dose last night was 0.5mg.....not 1mg
 
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Damn, I have a ton of catching up to do.

Anyway, I binged hard on some amazing heroin, I was gone out of this world. Almost left this world if you know what I mean.

A full script of klonopin, 2 week worths of suboxone, and some heroin, well you can tell where things ended.

Plus, I got a brand new Xbox 360 & Call of Duty Black OPs, that means I won't be able to get some dope for a while, but I am 100% getting some Christmas dope.

Not sure if I mentioned this, but my sub Dr wouldn't give me a month worth. He said that once the new year comes he'll start, but unfortunately I feel like he was just saying that, and when time comes, something else will come up. I'm just so sick of going there, it's such a hike. I feel sorry for mmt patients.

I will read and reply to all the posts I have missed when I get a chance.
 
JamtasticX said:
Not sure if I mentioned this, but my sub Dr wouldn't give me a month worth. He said that once the new year comes he'll start, but unfortunately I feel like he was just saying that, and when time comes, something else will come up. I'm just so sick of going there, it's such a hike. I feel sorry for mmt patients.
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Didnt you say that you have failed a couple or few DT's with weed or maybe some other drugs before? That can lead to distrust and make it MUCH harder to gain access to monthly scripts.
 
SkagKush said:
^ i will probably attempt once i acquire some micron filters........
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Just make sure to read up on IM technique. For instance, you want to sterilize the area, and you want to aspirate the plunger to make sure you aren't in a blood vessel. Then, when you are going to inject, you want to do it slowly, so it doesn't sting.

jamesBrown said:
Didnt you say that you have failed a couple or few DT's with weed or maybe some other drugs before? That can lead to distrust and make it MUCH harder to gain access to monthly scripts.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would just find a doctor who does monthly scripts without DT's.
 
im so lucky....my cannabis use does not affect my SMT....i told my doc i will not be stopping....i have a med card signed by another doc.....i do use responsibly for the most part, but i still smoke for fun.....
 
SkagKush said:
im so lucky....my cannabis use does not affect my SMT....i told my doc i will not be stopping....i have a med card signed by another doc.....i do use responsibly for the most part, but i still smoke for fun.....
Click to expand...

It would seriously blow my mind if a doctor would prefer his patient to relapse on heroin, than to stay on Suboxone, and smoke weed.
 
^ my feelings are that this would make sobriety so much harder.......and i could not agree more with the capt.....
 
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