pharmakos
Bluelighter
if those people don't care then they shouldn't read/post in this thread.
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
changing metabolism of nutmeg= different metabolites & effects?
- Thread starter StaySedated
- Start date
if those people don't care then they shouldn't read/post in this thread.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I was replying to the one or three complaints as to why no one has replied with info yet.
indelibleface
Bluelight Crew
Frankly, I don't think experimentation with allylbenzenes is safe at all.
Allylbenzenes like safrole (and myristicin, elemicin, eugenol, et cetera) have been shown to cause tumors in rats. Furthermore, even if this is not applicable to humans, these compounds are known in the literature to be hepatotoxic to some degree. You're simply poisoning yourself with toxic compounds to get a high that is really not comparable to better, safer, more widely used drugs.
(Source: ScienceDirect: Toxic properties of compounds related to safrole)
Allylbenzenes like safrole (and myristicin, elemicin, eugenol, et cetera) have been shown to cause tumors in rats. Furthermore, even if this is not applicable to humans, these compounds are known in the literature to be hepatotoxic to some degree. You're simply poisoning yourself with toxic compounds to get a high that is really not comparable to better, safer, more widely used drugs.
(Source: ScienceDirect: Toxic properties of compounds related to safrole)
StaySedated
Bluelighter
^ even if they are being metabolized into less toxic substances?
*also, i told a friend of mine about the combo so he tried it ang got the same effects i got. he had also tried nutmeg alone and said there was a huge difference in effects.
*also, i told a friend of mine about the combo so he tried it ang got the same effects i got. he had also tried nutmeg alone and said there was a huge difference in effects.
Dr Mamba
Bluelighter
I agree, tried this combo, with beef and potatoes, and had a completely different experience than nutmeg alone, TR later.
polymath
Bluelight Crew
Almost everyone(including myself) seems to say that the nutmeg high is similar to cannabis... I wonder why no researcher has tested whether a cannabinoid antagonist such as SR141716 would negate the effect of nutmeg in experimental animals. In my own experience, taking the 5HT2A antagonist risperidone before taking nutmeg doesn't eliminate any of the psychoactive effects. So probably the effect of nutmeg isn't mediated by 5HTA2-receptors, like the myristicin -> MMDA hypothesis would suggest.
StaySedated
Bluelighter
5-HT antagonists don't really completely block out psychedelic's effects...
- from Erowid Psychedelic Crisis FAQ
thorazine and risperidone have similar mechanisms of action on blocking serotonin receptors. the fact that risperidone didn't block nutmeg's effects doesn't prove anything for sure, and you didn't mention if you took the nutmeg with black pepper(which gave much more psychedelic effects).
polymath
Bluelight Crew
^^
I didn't take the nutmeg with black pepper... How much pepper did you use yourself? Doesn't that have a stomach irritant effect at large doses? I wouldn't like to irritate my stomach as some time ago after binge drinking for 3 days I puked black bloody vomit...
I didn't take the nutmeg with black pepper... How much pepper did you use yourself? Doesn't that have a stomach irritant effect at large doses? I wouldn't like to irritate my stomach as some time ago after binge drinking for 3 days I puked black bloody vomit...
StaySedated
Bluelighter
a few grams of black pepper. to my suprise it actually didn't bother my stomach at all and it wasn't hard to get down(i just put it in water). i would actually say the black pepper kind of settled my stomach after ingesting all the nutmeg.
blessedamines
Bluelighter
it is stated that allylbenzenes are metabolized in rats and other subjects (dont beleive human studies have been done) to some pretty nasty products via the route of dihydrosulifid and epoxy metabolites cause hepatoxicity, now knowing that i wouldnt proceed but someones got to, lets keep this thread running and see what we can figure out. we need to analyze urine samples for mmda and such. does anyone know if mmda is further broken down in the body or is it just excreted, isnt a pratial metabolite of MDMA, MDA? in that thinking would mmda possibly metabolize to mda?
StaySedated
Bluelighter
MMDA could cause a positive for MDMA or amphetamines, if one of the metabolites is MMDA. we still have no clue what nutmeg + black pepper metabolizes into...
polymath
Bluelight Crew
MDMA is metabolized to MDA, and that is a removal of N-methyl. The conversion of MMDA to MDA would be a removal of a methoxy group at the phenyl ring, and that would be a much more unlikely reaction...
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atara
Bluelighter
Thorazine is a typical antipsychotic; it only affects dopamine receptors. Atypical antipsychotics like quetiapine will block the effects of LSD; typical antipsychotics like haloperidol will not.
blessedamines
Bluelighter
yes MDMA metabolizes to MDA and doesnt it also get excreted as MDMA as well theres not a total metabolism?
so mmda has a methoxy group at what position on the ring? is that the 3 position? since mdma is bonded at the 4,5?
there wouldnt be any metabolism of the methoxy group? why is that?
so mmda has a methoxy group at what position on the ring? is that the 3 position? since mdma is bonded at the 4,5?
there wouldnt be any metabolism of the methoxy group? why is that?
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melange
Bluelighter
I have heard that as much as 60% of mdma gets excreted unchanged
someone could eat loads of nutmeg and get their urine analysed looking for the phenylpropanone and any amine metabolites, I think the whole idea is somewhat unlikely and that the toxic delerium caused by nutmeg is caused directly by myristicin and safrole.
polymath
Bluelight Crew
I guess it would be more likely that the methoxy is converted to a hydroxy group in the liver. Yes, it's in the 3-position.
StaySedated
Bluelighter
we're not just talking about nutmeg alone, we talking about changing its metabolism by ingesting it with black pepper.
black pepper contains piperidine and other drugs that could change the metabolism and/or structure of the compounds in nutmeg if ingested together.
nutmeg + black pepper has given distinct psychedelic effects every time i've taken then and a friend tried it after i told him and he got the same psychedelic effects i did. the effects without black pepper are greatly different in my experiments.
blessedamines
Bluelighter
well to see if piperidine is acting on certain enzymes inhibiting or hibiting certain functions is well beyond us on bluelight and would require knowledge and equipment of a certain degree, so all we can do is speculate, and honestly i really dont know how piperidine would act on theses enzymes and there direct mechanics, my hypothesis would be that its a combined effect of the two components, who knows they could be having a synergistic effect.
blessedamines
Bluelighter
(ok, so a probable route of metabolizm would be what for mrysticin? campared to the drug MMDA that is a possible metabolite of Mrysticin?)being that myristicin having a methyl grouping on the methoxy on the 3 position of the ring, and instead of there being a primary amine there is a methylene grouping instead??? whats the probability of having those reduce in the body? POLYMATH stated that the probable route for the methyl group to metabolize to a hydroxide.