Other Drugs Forum Feedback Thread

[phr]

Hello.


As we've done in the past, and in an effort to improve the forum, we're once again asking for your feedback. Please let us know what you like, what you don't like, suggestions for improving the forum, etc.


A few ground rules, though:

1. Keep it civil. This isn't the place for personal attacks or signaling people out.
2. We might not address every reply.
3. Stay on topic.
4. Keep it productive. Saying "bring back the price or social thread" or "start an opiate forum" isn't helpful. It has been discussed already. Unless you have an excellent point not addressed in those discussions, please don't bother.

This will run for one week. Keep in mind that you can PM an OD staff member at anytime to discuss the forum.


Thanks. We look forward to hearing from you.

-OD staff

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i only come to OD and i just want to say even though i have caused a little trouble on here and gotten banned and infracted more than once that the OD staff is excellent, they deal with shit on a daily basis and get through it, i feel i have been *forgiven* (for lack of a better word) for my actions and they don't hold a grudge on people who mess up once in a while.. just wanna say thanks OD Mods as i haven't before.. thanks guys!! this place gives me somewhere to go to be myself and talk about things that the people im around have no interest in, even though i don't post as much as i would like, i am here multiple times a day, im currently in an area where i have no friends (Maine ) but being here (BL, OD) makes me feel i have at least SOME friends or at least acquaintances.

EDIT: also i didn't apply for Mod this last time around because of my infractions and bans, but did apply the time before.. I hope sometime i will be able to join the staff.. i haven't been here too long but i have a feeling how things are run around here and feel i could help Mod here, but also i know Dokomo will do a good job, so again a great Mod choice made.

I took some tramodol for my back and am a little buzzed with it in combo with my bupe and k pins so sorry if im commin off as a kiss ass lol, just tryin to give the Mods the recognition they deserve.

 

[jamesBrown]

I believe that we should have a zero tolerance rule for rude, derogatory, negative, off topic, and intentionally ignorant behavior. I see no reason as to why we should allow people who cuss at other members or call them names or accuse them of this or that, to be able to continue posting in our forums. Not only does it go in the exact oposite direction of BL's goal and purpose, but it is also wrong to treat another human being that way.

I have witnessed several members cuss, rant, belittle, and talk down to other members and yet nothing was done. Well, I dont know if they were warned or infracted behind the scenes by a moderator( i doubt that happened most the time though), but I do know that those same members were never banned even though there unacceptable behavior continued because I would witness them, day after day, posting, and many of those posts were rude, derogatory, etc.....
And when that happened I would think......"what is going on here? are we truly allowed to consistently treat other members with disrespect and still be allowed to keep posting in BL's forums, contributing nothing to harm reduction, health issues, or any other related subjects that one may come across on Bluelight?"
It saddens me that these people are continually allowed to post despite the fact they act like children most the time. I have always though of BL as a more respected forum dedicated to harm reduction, rather than a breeding ground for ignorance and disrespect.
I understand how hard our moderators work im just saying that maybe a change in policy is in order. I would think that a member acting disrespectfull or out of line automatically gets an infraction, and then if ANYTHING like that happens again during the next several weeks(or even months) that member is automatically banned. I say this because I believe there is no room for these arguments and disrespectfull comments on a websit dedicated to helping people better there lives and reducing harm caused by drug related occurences.
It seems to me that our moderators(and members) are spending the majority of there time trying to fix problems that are a direct reult of what I have been talking about.....and I respect them for trying so hard, but I just think it would not only be easier for everyone if we had that change of policy, but it would also give our moderators more time to answer questions, and give advice, which I think is the most important thing of all. I believe the moderators are capable of sharing so much with the BL community and everyone who asks questions, but it seems to me that they barely ever get a chance to answer questions or help people out because they are always in a rush to mediate some argument in another thread, or do something simlilar.
I believe our moderators could benfit our community much more if they had less "crap" to deal with, and consequently, Bluelight will become an even more respected website and even more people would come to us for advice and that means we get more opportunities to help people and save lives. If all of our members are aware of a rule that basically will ban them for acting innapropriately then I can only imagine how much less shit our mods (and the BL community) will have to deal with.

 

[phr]

Thanks for the kind words, hdoubleo.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

James; moderators aren't allowed to ban people, we have to use the warning and infraction system.

 

[phr]

I believe that we should have a zero tolerance rule for rude, derogatory, negative, off topic, and intentionally ignorant behavior. I see no reason as to why we should allow people who cuss at other members or call them names or accuse them of this or that, to be able to continue posting in our forums. Not only does it go in the exact oposite direction of BL's goal and purpose, but it is also wrong to treat another human being that way.

I have witnessed several members cuss, rant, belittle, and talk down to other members and yet nothing was done. Well, I dont know if they were warned or infracted behind the scenes by a moderator( i doubt that happened most the time though), but I do know that those same members were never banned even though there unacceptable behavior continued because I would witness them, day after day, posting, and many of those posts were rude, derogatory, etc.....
And when that happened I would think......"what is going on here? are we truly allowed to consistently treat other members with disrespect and still be allowed to keep posting in BL's forums, contributing nothing to harm reduction, health issues, or any other related subjects that one may come across on Bluelight?"
It saddens me that these people are continually allowed to post despite the fact they act like children most the time. I have always though of BL as a more respected forum dedicated to harm reduction, rather than a breeding ground for ignorance and disrespect.
I understand how hard our moderators work im just saying that maybe a change in policy is in order. I would think that a member acting disrespectfull or out of line automatically gets an infraction, and then if ANYTHING like that happens again during the next several weeks(or even months) that member is automatically banned. I say this because I believe there is no room for these arguments and disrespectfull comments on a websit dedicated to helping people better there lives and reducing harm caused by drug related occurences.
It seemse to me that our moderators(and members) are spending the majority of there time trying to fix problems that are a direct reult of what I have been talking about.....and I respect them for trying so hard, but I just think it would not only be easier for everyone if we had thayt change of policy, but it would also give our moderators more time to answer questions, and give advice, which I think is the most important thing of all. I believe the moderators are capable of sharing so much with the BL community and eceryone who asks questions, but it seems to me that they barely ever get a chance to anser wuestions or help people out because they are always in a rush to mediate some argument in another thread, or do something simlilar.
I believe our moderators could benfit our community much more if they had less "crap" to deal with, and consequently, Bluelight will become an even more respected website and even more people would come to us for advice and that means we get more opportunities to help people and save lives. If all of our members are aware of a rule that basically will ban them for acting innapropriately then I can only imagine how much less shit our mods (and the BL community) will have to deal with.

We act upon abuse. The action could be a warning, an infraction -that accumulate and lead to bans- , a post edit, or a PM. It's the mod's discretion as to what action is best to take. And as someone who oversees that, I can say that they do a good job.

Abuse isn't tolerated anywhere on the site, and as someone who sees all of the formal warnings/infractions/bans, it's arguably the most frequently enforced rule. So, yeah, you don't see the whole picture.

That doesn't mean we catch everything, at least right away when you're talking about hundreds of posts. We depend quite a bit on members reporting posts.

Now, if you are reporting posts and you're continuing to see the same person breaking the rules, keep reporting and take the issue up via pm with the mod(s). At the very least you'll get an explanation of what's going on.

 

[jamesBrown]

James; moderators aren't allowed to ban people, we have to use the warning and infraction system.

Well maybe that could be a part of the new policy change, I dont know. Im just tired of seeing so many disrespectfull and off topic posts and arguments. Im just throwin ideas out there to fix it. Because it CAN be fixed, we just gotta figure out how....and i would be unbelievably excited if we instituted some sort of policy whch prevented members from acting the way they do so often now(rude derogatory, etc).

Im just tryin to better our community because I see too many arguments and problems that everyone has to deal with (especially the mods). And I think that if our members actually had a serious penalty to worry about, then they would me MUCH less likely to act disrespectfull.

Im also saying that I personally have witnessed some members CONTINUALLY talking shit, name calling, talking down, posting rudely and disrespectfully, etc....and yet they are never banned. I know that there is ALOT of stuff that goes on "behind the scenes" i the moderators thread or whatever that I dont know about, but I do know that our threads and forums are not getting any better...in fact, they seem to be lowering in quality, and I know it doesnt have to be this way and im trying to figure out how to fix it. Because no matter what other people say about me, I really do want to help people, and its becoming more and more difficult because I could get banned for simply defending myself against a rude comment accusing me of something that is not true.....and if I am not allowed to defend my credibility when I am accused of soemthing derogatory, and the member who posted the derogatory post isnt banned, then im pretty much stuck having to tip-toe around my words and try to keep my credibility while at the same time having to consistently deal with (excuse my language) ignorant idiots who simply seem to only want to cause arguments and problems.
im not trying to blame anyone here, im just trying to figure out a solution to a MAJOR problem that I see holding Bluelight back from its full potential. I think harm reduction (especially in relation to drug use) is going to become a bigger and bigger issue in the coming years as our societies learn to accept its importance and as a result, we, the members of Bluelight, will want to be a respected community of people for others to look to for advice.

We act upon abuse. The action could be a warning, an infraction -that accumulate and lead to bans- , a post edit, or a PM. It's the mod's discretion as to what action is best to take. And as someone who oversees that, I can say that they do a good job.

Abuse isn't tolerated anywhere on the site, and as someone who sees all of the formal warnings/infractions/bans, it's arguably the most frequently enforced rule. So, yeah, you don't see the whole picture.

That doesn't mean we catch everything, at least right away when you're talking about hundreds of posts. We depend quite a bit on members reporting posts.

Now, if you are reporting posts and you're continuing to see the same person breaking the rules, keep reporting and take the issue up via pm with the mod(s). At the very least you'll get an explanation of what's going on.

Thank you for your explanation.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

James- I know we've talked at length and I'm sympathetic and spend A LOT of my time addressing these issues as is. As phrozen said, you don't see all the editing, warning, infractions and PMs all of us staff are already doing to try to address it.

I don't think we should have ban authority though because its too much power for one person. The way its set up we have a lot of authority which is overseen by senior staff so there is a great checks and balances system so rules are enforced as uniformly and fairly as we possibly can.

We have to use both the carrot and the stick- if we are constantly censoring people, banning them and so forth we'll be seen as nazis and it will discourage A LOT of people from using the site. This has been the case with moderators in the past who exercised too much authority so we really try hard to find a balance that both addresses the problems while also creating a community where people feel free to participate, ask questions and get involved.

As phrozen said, the best way we can address this is by more people reporting the problems and not fighting with other members who are being disrespectful, this just feeds it as you know.

 

[jamesBrown]

James- I know we've talked at length and I'm sympathetic and spend A LOT of my time addressing these issues as is. As phrozen said, you don't see all the editing, warning, infractions and PMs all of us staff are already doing to try to address it.

I don't think we should have ban authority though because its too much power for one person. The way its set up we have a lot of authority which is overseen by senior staff so there is a great checks and balances system so rules are enforced as uniformly and fairly as we possibly can.

We have to use both the carrot and the stick- if we are constantly censoring people, banning them and so forth we'll be seen as nazis and it will discourage A LOT of people from using the site. This has been the case with moderators in the past who exercised too much authority so we really try hard to find a balance that both addresses the problems while also creating a community where people feel free to participate, ask questions and get involved.

As phrozen said, the best way we can address this is by more people reporting the problems and not fighting with other members who are being disrespectful, this just feeds it as you know.

You are right. I really dont know exactly how much time you guys spend "behind the scenes" dealing with all that BS, but I do have an idea and was just throwin ideas out there that I thought might help. But if you say it works better this way, than so be it.
I have not had experience as a moderator so i cant speak from that perspective, so i can only speak from the perspective as a normal bluelighter. and tI guess thats where my ideas originated from.

Thanks for takin the time to explain it to me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

thanks for the feedback so far, guys. and thanks for the kind word HOOD, it's really appreciated, man. thanks for the smile

now even though we love ass kissing, let's get down to the nitty and gritty of what could be improved, ideas on how, projects or threads you would like to see in OD, whatever.

 

[BlueberryfishY]

I believe that we should have a zero tolerance rule for rude, derogatory, negative, off topic, and intentionally ignorant behavior. I see no reason as to why we should allow people who cuss at other members or call them names or accuse them of this or that, to be able to continue posting in our forums. Not only does it go in the exact oposite direction of BL's goal and purpose, but it is also wrong to treat another human being that way.

I can see where you are coming from.

But you also have to take into account that this is a harm reduction site for drugs, and most of the people who are new here (and most don't read the rules as i've seen on many occasions, myself included when i first joined) or act the way you described, might be and are probably high on drugs or alcohol etc, thus explaining why some of them come off.. as you put it "rude" "derogatory" "negative" and off topic.

That being said, the line has to be drawn somewhere, i totally understand that.. but if it's one of the cases described above then i don't agree with you on banning them, that's too harsh for such a minor offence that can and will be taken care of by a moderator if needs be.. that's why they give warnings and infractions/temp bans if necessary to those who don't get the picture and carry on with their ignorance.

 

[BlueberryfishY]

Back to the topic.

So far the mods/senior mods are running it good as far as i know, i mainly only post in OD, TDS, and DITM and have no problems with anyone (mod or bluelighter) off the top of my head i can't think of anything that needs changing, everything is nice IMO.

 

[Jabberwocky]

we're perfect.

/thread

 

[jamesBrown]

I can see where you are coming from.

But you also have to take into account that this is a harm reduction site for drugs, and most of the people who are new here (and most don't read the rules as i've seen on many occasions, myself included when i first joined) or act the way you described, might be and are probably high on drugs or alcohol etc, thus explaining why some of them come off.. as you put it "rude" "derogatory" "negative" and off topic.

That being said, the line has to be drawn somewhere, i totally understand that.. but if it's one of the cases described above then i don't agree with you on banning them, that's too harsh for such a minor offence that can and will be taken care of by a moderator if needs be.. that's why they give warnings and infractions/temp bans if necessary to those who don't get the picture and carry on with their ignorance.

I completely agree with you.

But, like you said, if somone consistently makes derogatory commesnt, cusses at other members, posts lies about other members, etc....then I believe they should be banned.
I agree that (especially for newer members) that someone shouldn't automatically be banned for breaking a rule, but its common sense that you treat people with respect no matter what the situation is, whether its an online forum or a face to face discussion.....respect is always important. SO when these members act disrespectfully, it doesnt matter if they are new, they should know that that is unacceptable behavior. I think everyone would agree that you shouldnt have to teach someone to treat others with respect(unlesss you are teaching a small child or toddler).
Also, because these members decide to act disrespectfully, but are not banned, other members(members who act in a responsible manner) are forced to tip-toe around the threads and be very careful as to what they say because if they say something in response to someone elses rude/derogatory remarks, that member could get an infraction for simply posting a response, even if they post a polite response telling the rude poster they our out of line. I know this is true because it has happened to me. I simply responded to a poster who was "talking shit" and let them know that they are breaking BL's rules and shouldnt behave that way(and I was polite the whole time), and I was infracted for "encouraging off topic discussion"...even though I had reported the post and nothing had been done about it. I understand the moderators are busy but thats part of my reasoning. Since the mods have so much to deal with, it would make it easier on them if they were capable of "nipping it in the bud" so to speak when a member gets out of line.
They should infract that person immediately(unless they broke a rule thats understandable like not saying SWIM...i mean more like acting disrespectfull because they disagree with something)......and then if it happens again, at any time, they should get banned. That will send a message out to all our members that we are serious about keeping disresprectfull and derogatory comments out of our forums. And over a short period of time, BL's members will start catching on and understanding that this behavior simply isnt tolerated.....which in the long run, will make the mods job much easier because members would me MUCH less likely to act out of line or disrespectfully if they knew there is a very high chance of getting banned.

I have witnessed certain members almost constantly post derogatory remarks, which include cussing and ignorant accusations(im not going to name names) and yet they are still allowed to post in our forums.....and guess what, they kept posting with disrespect. Im sure they were infracted maybe, but it sure didnt stop them from acting out of line in the future.

I feel like im ranting here and I didnt wanna post a long post like this, as I think it comes off as me just whining about shit, but the only reason I am doing this is because I see WAY too many problems having to do with members behavior, attitude, respect, etc....and I dont see the methods that we have in pace to take care of those situations working.

You mentioned that you think that members who continually post with ignorance and disrespect should be banned, and that is what I agree with, and yet I see the same members, posting disrespectfully, making rude accusations to other members, etc....and yet they are still members of our community. They may have been infracted once or twice, but that doesnt seem to be working very well as they, for the most part, are still posting in the same manner.

Im not a moderator and I dont know exactly how things work on your end of all this, and I understand and appreciate all the hard work you deal with and all the BS you put up with, so please dont take this as me complaining about the way the moderators are running the website. Im just talking about what I see, and what I see is consistently disrespectfull posts from the same members. And that makes it so much harder for this website to achieve its goal as a harm reduction website and I would love to see Bluelight as a more professional and respected forum where people can come and get help and give advice without having to be constantly treated like shit.

Im not sure what the best solution to this porblem would be, im just pointing out that i dont think the methods we use now to keep this kind of behavior under control are working very well at all.

Thanks for your time(if you actually read my post),
and again, congratulations dokomo!!!....i have allready seen many good qualities in you that make for a great moderator....i have no doubt that you will be a great asset to our community.

As phrozen said, the best way we can address this is by more people reporting the problems and not fighting with other members who are being disrespectful, this just feeds it as you know.

Thats one of my points....I do report posts all the time. And I have still been infracted for letting somone know that they are breaking BL's rules. I wouldnt fight with the person....that would get us nowhere.....I would respectfully let them know that there behavior is out of line, and still I would get infracted. I think sometimes the moderators confuse that with me trying to "fight" with someone. Its been quite a long time since I actually fought with a member, and yet i still am getting infractions for simply explaining to them that they are breaking rules, or acting disrespectfully....I do not cuss at them, I do not treat them disrespectfully, i do not treat them like shit and call them names.....and yet, I still get infractions sometimes. It can be infuriating.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^I'm really not trying to be antagonistic, but I have read every single infraction or warning you have received whether I sent it or not and none of them were for explaining the rules to other people.

james, I understand the issues you have with how SOME people act on the board but in life you have to put up with all types. We will do everything we can to discourage and discipline abuse but THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE someone being a dick because some people are dicks.

I still believe that if a dick needs harm reduction advice, I would rather he receive it than lose an arm shooting poorly filtered ritalin or become septic because he didn't know when he needed to go to the ER for an abscess. REAL PEOPLE (dicks or not) will suffer from the inability to receive harm reduction advice and this will be the result of banning everyone who is a dick to you. Maybe you think they deserve it, I don't know, but I can't in good conscience ban everyone who is a dick knowing that some of them will physically suffer as a result.

Everyone being nice and respectful would be wonderful, but its a utopian fantasy. You will have a much easier time learning to adjust to and tolerate all types of people rather than getting frustrated and believing that you can solve the problem by banning everyone.

Its just like drug prohibition, you can't abolish the drug problem in this country with jails and interdiction efforts. It will still exist. You can hardly even minimize it because regardless, SOME people are going to do drugs. Likewise, no matter how much we try to enforce decorum and promote respectfulness, SOME people are still dicks. If the PRIMARY goal of this forum were to have a place where everyone is nice and treats each other right then banning everyone who isn't makes sense.

The primary goal of this forum is to spread harm reduction advice and until that goal changes to "only spread harm reduction advice to people who aren't dicks", we aren't going to ban every person who is pissy because he's dopesick.

 

[phr]

Well maybe that could be a part of the new policy change, I dont know.

Technically, mods can ban. Someone gets banned in two different ways, manual or automatic. Manual bans are given by senior staff, and since we changed the system, they're seldom seen. Why? Well, because we have automatic bans set up. That makes things much more streamlined, and leaves a record. Each infraction gives the user 1 point, and as the points accumulate, that person will receive automatic bans at pre-established point levels. Edits, talks through pm's, and warnings don't give any points. Those, in that order, are typically how we escalate things under normal circumstances. All this stuff is outlined in the support forum, amongst other places.

 

[theotherside]

The staff here in OD is amazing, Captain Heroin is a great mod and been doing his usual job of keeping things in order. Cane2theLeft has been doing an amazing job as well....to moderate this forum requires dedication to say the least!!! Keep up the good work

 

[SmokeTrails]

i thought OD was a heavy handed warzone... i cant understand why someone would complain about OD being what it is... I've never had problems here in that reguard.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

We will do everything we can to discourage and discipline abuse but THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE someone being a dick because some people are dicks.

This is true; some people are not worth the clothes on their back, but they are going to exist regardless of this fact.

Its just like drug prohibition, you can't abolish the drug problem in this country with jails and interdiction efforts. It will still exist. You can hardly even minimize it because regardless, SOME people are going to do drugs. Likewise, no matter how much we try to enforce decorum and promote respectfulness, SOME people are still dicks. If the PRIMARY goal of this forum were to have a place where everyone is nice and treats each other right then banning everyone who isn't makes sense.

The primary goal of this forum is to spread harm reduction advice and until that goal changes to "only spread harm reduction advice to people who aren't dicks", we aren't going to ban every person who is pissy because he's dopesick.

I agree, 100%.

Technically, mods can ban. Someone gets banned in two different ways, manual or automatic. Manual bans are given by senior staff, and since we changed the system, they're seldom seen. Why? Well, because we have automatic bans set up. That makes things much more streamlined, and leaves a record. Each infraction gives the user 1 point, and as the points accumulate, that person will receive automatic bans at pre-established point levels. Edits, talks through pm's, and warnings don't give any points. Those, in that order, are typically how we escalate things under normal circumstances. All this stuff is outlined in the support forum, amongst other places.

This is accurate, AFAIK moderators like me cannot manually ban people, but can automatically ban them.

 

[jamesBrown]

Yes, I understand what you are saying to me Cane, but Im not saying we should ban everyone who is a dick.....i mean christ, Ill be the first one to admit that the human population is mostly composed of ignorant idiots.....but I do believe that nothing but respect should be tolerated. I think there is a huge difference between someone being respectfull and someone being a dick.
No matter how hard we try or no matter how many mods we got on staff, were not gonna be able to get rid of dicks, but, if someone is purposefully disrespectful to someone else, I believe they should be warned/infracted.....because our site is about giving harm reduction advice and understanding harm reduction answers, and people who cant understand the concept of respect do not fit in with our "goal".
Then, if that person chooses to keep there disrespectful behavior going, I believe they should be banned. That is because they were allready lucky enough to have gotten a warning letting them know what they did wrong, and giving them a link to our rules and guidelines.....and yet they chose to act disrespectfull again.
I agree with you Cane completely about the whole drug prohibition and not being able to stop people from using drugs simply by putting every drug user you see in jail, etc...
BUT......think of it more like a workplace rather than an entire national society. Bluelight is a big forum, but its no nation. I think it helps to think of it more as any random office. And in any job you have at any office, you are expected to be respectfull to the people you work with. People can think that you are a dick just cuz thats your personality and thats how you come off, but when you start saying disrespectfull things, thats when you get fired immediately. And, in my opinion, that works very well in keeping the average workplace functional.

But, im not gonna waste any more time talkin about this. Im sure you understand my opinion clearly enough and I am also sure I have posted plenty info on the subject allready. I hope you didnt interpret any of my posts as hostile in any way, as I was just trying to throw out an idea that I have developed throughout my experience on this website. I believe the mods here are doing an outstanding job and especially dokomo....he really suprised me how naturally good at moderating he was when he started....good for him.

If I think of soemthin else to post about improving Bluelight I will do so.

Thanks,
jamesBrown