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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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DeLee said:
Thanks for your reply!

Yeah I will try and stick to the Suboxone for now, maybe it would be different if I had the oppurtunity to redose at the afternoon..

Anyway, both Methadone and Suboxone maintance is free where I live and both Sub and Methadone maintance is viewed on as a life long treatment.
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Does this mean that you plan on staying on suboxone(or methadone) for your entire life??? And if so....are you planning on that simply because of how methadone and suboxone maintanence is viewed where you live?

I perosonally would hope that someday you will be able to live your life, without having to depend on a maintanence drug to get you through the day.
 
I shoot my subs and filter it with cotton. When I run out of sub I do cotton shots. One thing I notice with the cotton shots is that they are more euphoric. Since bupe only has limited solubility and naloxone is I would imagine the cotton shots is mostly bupe and fillers. I know people on this site all disagree and I will get flamed for this but I have to think that the naloxone may fuck with the high in some way. I mean look at countries where it is mostly subutex and it is a major drug of abuse in those countries only behind weed, coke, and ecstasy. That could be for other reasons such as availabilty of other drugs but i dont know. All I know is the cotton shots definitely feel a little better than just shooting the pill, and its not just because I'm doing a low dose(the theory that lower doses give better effects) because I have tried doing very small pieces of the pill IV'd and it isn't the same(tho maybe the low dose of a cotton rinse helps but mostly I think its the absence of the nalox.)

I know I will get flamed but maybe someone else here has done a cotton shot or thinks subutex(iv) is better?
 
So i have been prescribed bupe by a psychiatrist in New Jersey for the past 15 or so months. I started at 12mgs, and after 8 months started tapering myself because my psych didn't think i should start coming off it yet. I got myself down to about 1-1.5mgs, and just moved to chicago to go to an outpatient rehab and get my shit together before moving on to california for school. They have suboxone clinics here instead of doctors, so what should i expect in terms of changes? Will i get my bupe everyday or get a scrip to take home like i am used to? Will they help me ween off of it down to extremely low doses or will i have to continue lieing, pretend to be maintaining and just continue tapering myself? I am worried they will make me go cold turkey since from my experience doctors dont understand that even 1mg IS a high dose. Id like to go down to .1 or .2 every other day if not lower before stopping completely...

Basically if anyone has experience with a clinic rather than a private doctor let me know what i should expect.
 
affasd said:
I shoot my subs and filter it with cotton. When I run out of sub I do cotton shots. One thing I notice with the cotton shots is that they are more euphoric. Since bupe only has limited solubility and naloxone is I would imagine the cotton shots is mostly bupe and fillers. I know people on this site all disagree and I will get flamed for this but I have to think that the naloxone may fuck with the high in some way. I mean look at countries where it is mostly subutex and it is a major drug of abuse in those countries only behind weed, coke, and ecstasy. That could be for other reasons such as availabilty of other drugs but i dont know. All I know is the cotton shots definitely feel a little better than just shooting the pill, and its not just because I'm doing a low dose(the theory that lower doses give better effects) because I have tried doing very small pieces of the pill IV'd and it isn't the same(tho maybe the low dose of a cotton rinse helps but mostly I think its the absence of the nalox.)

I know I will get flamed but maybe someone else here has done a cotton shot or thinks subutex(iv) is better?
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What makes you think there is an absence of nalaxone in your used cottons? Why wouldnt there be some nalaxone in the cottons jsut like there is buperenorphine. Both are water soluble, and both leave some trace amounts of themselves behind in the cotton. I can pretty much guarantee you that there IS nalaxone in your cotton shots.
 
jamesBrown said:
nalaxone only blocks endorphines when it is actively attached to a receptor....which it CANNOT do when combined with bupernorphine. Therefore....when you take suboxone, the nalaxone in the pill has NO POSSIBLE WAY of blocking endorphins.
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I get that this is the case but i dont get how I got effects that were 100% like endorphin s being blocked I never felt life highs. I had truble being scared. I didnt get happy or sad to any large degree. I vomited daily.

I really feel that people dont fully get the drug interaction 100 % yet. In my mind mabye naloxone binds to sum receptor that also is one that endorphins bind to, that bupe does not bind to . and or doesnt have its ungodly affinity for.

I also expreinced the feeelings of withdrawls far far sooner while on suboxone. but while on subutex the same dose would last me at least 48 hours if needed. My thought about this is mabye the affinity for the opaite receptor goes down as the duration after dose increases so the naloxone then has the abillity to pull some of the bupe out or some how tamper with it so you feel sick faster..

I only am not so fast to fall into lock step with everyone about this idea because I felt very very diffrent effects from the two drugs suboxone and subutex and the only diffrence that I would have felt it from is the naloxone... I highly believe that the Naloxone is doing alot more than anyone is aware of.. I know it doesn't do alot of things that its said to but it also is doing something I am sure of this because the diffrence between How i felt on suboxone and subutex is night and day.. And I started feeling better about 2 .5-3 days after the switch which happens to b around 7 half lifes of naloxone
 
and I still have yet to read any full study that says something about Suboxone IV and the interaction of bupe and naloxone and bupe being stronger. I know Ive felt it people say it but can someone get me a site with a study something more then opion and conjecture . I know people in this forum are extremely bright but it doesnt make sence why I would get the effects i got if the naloxone was 100 % in active like people say .
 
DkBlaze1 said:
I get that this is the case but i dont get how I got effects that were 100% like endorphin s being blocked I never felt life highs. I had truble being scared. I didnt get happy or sad to any large degree. I vomited daily.

I really feel that people dont fully get the drug interaction 100 % yet. In my mind mabye naloxone binds to sum receptor that also is one that endorphins bind to, that bupe does not bind to . and or doesnt have its ungodly affinity for.

I also expreinced the feeelings of withdrawls far far sooner while on suboxone. but while on subutex the same dose would last me at least 48 hours if needed. My thought about this is mabye the affinity for the opaite receptor goes down as the duration after dose increases so the naloxone then has the abillity to pull some of the bupe out or some how tamper with it so you feel sick faster..

I only am not so fast to fall into lock step with everyone about this idea because I felt very very diffrent effects from the two drugs suboxone and subutex and the only diffrence that I would have felt it from is the naloxone... I highly believe that the Naloxone is doing alot more than anyone is aware of.. I know it doesn't do alot of things that its said to but it also is doing something I am sure of this because the diffrence between How i felt on suboxone and subutex is night and day.. And I started feeling better about 2 .5-3 days after the switch which happens to b around 7 half lifes of naloxone
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I also forgot to mention that when you take suboxone sublingually like you were, the nalaxone isnt absorbed(or atleast absorbed in such tiny amounts it wouldnt effect you in any way). It simply judt doesnt do ANYTHING.

The fact you have had a unique experience with suboxone/subutex is interesting....but it by no means, means that something is going on that we dont know about. More than likely, there is some variable that you have not taken into connsideration, or your allergic to nalaxone, or probably you are just a random, unique case, that doesnt really have an explanation.....but for the sake of harm reduction....its best to inform people of what IS likely to happen to them when taking these medicaitons....not what has happened to ONE person.

I mean no offense by any of my posts....im simply trying to rationalize your situation.
 
buprenorphine has a MUCH higer affinity for endorphin receptor site than naloxone does. therefore naloxone in suboxone is totally ineffective. the strips that are coming out seem to be much hard to use other than sublingually.

as far as studies, use google, dude.
 
Buprenorphine is a Bentley-derivative opioid of the phenanthrene class with extremely high binding affinity at the µ- and κ-opioid receptor.
It has partial agonist activity at the µ-opioid receptor, partial or full agonist activity at the ORL1/nociceptin and δ-opioid receptor, and competitive antagonist activity at the κ-opioid receptor.

======================================================

Naloxone has an extremely high affinity for μ-opioid receptors in the central nervous system. Naloxone is a μ-opioid receptor competitive antagonist, and its rapid blockade of those receptors often produces rapid onset of withdrawal symptoms. Naloxone also has an antagonist action, though with a lower affinity, at κ- and δ-opioid receptors.

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Norbuprenorphine is the primary active metabolite of buprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine acts as a μ-opioid, δ-opioid, and nociceptin receptor full agonist,[1][2] as well as a κ-opioid receptor partial agonist.[2] Norbuprenorphine crosses the blood-brain-barrier similarly to buprenorphine and likely contributes to its effects.[3]


mabye this could b why i got the effects i did .. Mind you im no genius and i dont know anything about medicine im learnign this all on my own so sorry if im pointing out things that are like proving my point wrong I dono its just sooo fucked that i felt one thing and am being told another thing by medicine normally when this is the case People later on down the road find that new things are there and to b learned... mabye we see 95 % of the picture and im feeling the effects from the 5 % we don;t i donno tho
 
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Ive never taken my suboxone sublingual its always been IV.... and guys like ive said Ive done 100 at least mabye 200 hours of research on this stupid shit... Im not talking about this to argue.. Im trying to learn more.. I didnt just feel the way i did for 3 months for no reason... this is why i am insistent to try and figure these things out to the bottom... Im sorry i dont just by it when im told something when i felt something else for 3 months then when switching to texs I felt great.. I have never felt so fucking not my self and gross then when i was taking subs...
 
wait, are you saying you are getting withdrawal symptoms from shooting subs? its probably cause you havent gotten whatever full agonist you were using out of your system yet.

when is the last time you used H, OC, or whatever you were using?
 
this was going on for 3 months after my last dose of any opiate besides suboxone. And continued to the 2.5-3 days after switching to the Subutexs... and its been 3 1/2 months on them and i feel none of the negitive effects i felt from subs... I E vomiting all day every day... and not being able to b happy or sad,. or feel a rush from things like speeding 155 mph on a motorcycle down the highway.. and just very plain all of this stoped once on the TEXS

I currently am on .5 mg of the tex 3 times a day for the past 2 days and have been getting wonderful euphoria that lasts for an hour to two hours every shot.. cimeitdine makes this alot better too donno why that is....

AND its like if all this stuff about medicine were 100 % correct then saint johns wart should get you higher if you take it with Bupe because it causes the enzyme that breaks down bupe to stop inhibits it/ and. enzyme that makes bupe into nor bupe is increased I E this enzyme is enduced... SO why is it when i tryed SAint johns wart nada happened ???



I just thought this Idea up ... mabye it happens due to the fact that I never took more then 4 mg and that was enought to leave room for the nor bupe to fit into receptors and the naloxone was able to take out the nor bupe. and this would cause me to feel sick ect mabye i donno lets hear your thoughts folks ...

 
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You say you dont get natural highs. Wouldnt that be because there is no way your endorphins will outcompete the bupe?
Also, i would think from a theoretical perspective that the naxalone would in fact bind, especially with low dose suboxone.
Lets say you have 1000 receptors, and take a low dose sub which takes up 300 receptors. Wouldn't the naxalone be able to bind to the rest ? It isn't like there is competition going on for those empty receptors.
Or lets say you take a high dose suboxone and fill all the receptors. You would think this would offset a natural high, b/c no way your natural endorphins will out compete the bupe.
Just some rambling thoughts..
 
even if that's true, let's say your shooting .4 mg of suboxone. that would mean your also shooting .1 mg of naloxone. I've never for the fun of it decided to shoot .1 mg of naloxone alone while on a full agonist, but I really don't think it would have much of a blocking effect. Plus, the half life of the naloxone is much shorter than that of buprenorphine, so whatever blocking effects it might have if your theory is true, it would be incredibly short lived. That's why actual naltrexone pills prescribed to people contain very high dosages, in order to create a blocking effect that lasts a couple of days.

On another note, I'm shocked about this sub strip news, and am wondering if my psych will bring it up next session. I'm sure this will obviously raise the street value for the tablets, but aside from that, the whole thing is just totally weird. Looks like it's finally come to light that the naloxone combination was just a fraud.
 
Znegative said:
Looks like it's finally come to light that the naloxone combination was just a fraud.
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what does this have to do with the pills being made into films the films still have naloxone dont they ???

if you think about this is not that weird at all that this is happening now... They just came out with the OP 80's and now this.. the DEA is clearly cracking down on the drugies and lets be real this had to happen at some point they are giving opaites to drug addicts they prolly have been waiting to do this since the shit came out. also I think this prolly is the reason that the Suboxone patent was legthened unlike the subutex patent. all this is really doing in my mind is covering the companys ass some more from bad press and also making it harder to abuse for a couple of days and now people will b attached to some number so they cant sell there script to get heroin.. this had to happen lets b happy subutex is not effected yet ...

And i am so happy i wont have to deal with any of this shit cuz im on subutex

 
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I feel like the naloxone was a safe cop out for the manufacturers say "you can't IV it, you will instantly hit acute withdrawals"... but switching to these films prove that you can in fact IV suboxone, or they wouldn't have switched to a non-abusable alternative.

imo
 
actually you can still abuse the films....you can disolve them in water or another liquid solutioon and IV that
 
No, i wouldnt think so...the films are water soluble(especially the bupe inside them) and if you simply soak the film in water, the bupe will be safely extracted.....although it would be best to micron filter the solution you get, but other than that, no worries.
 
I'd still like to know the inactive ingredients in the strip, so I can figure out if micron filtering is going to remove all the inactive ingredients.

DkBlaze1 said:
and I still have yet to read any full study that says something about Suboxone IV and the interaction of bupe and naloxone and bupe being stronger. I know Ive felt it people say it but can someone get me a site with a study something more then opion and conjecture . I know people in this forum are extremely bright but it doesnt make sence why I would get the effects i got if the naloxone was 100 % in active like people say .
Click to expand...

I found both suboxone and subutex to be identical in effects when I used them.
 
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