Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[TeaM DimE]

I know this has prolly been covered pleanty of times in this thread but i figured ill ask it again. I took 3mgs of Subs yesterday, it was my first time ever taking them. Fast forward to today, 24 hours later i want to do an Oxy80. Will i be able to feel the Oxy for the most part or do i need to wait a little bit longer?

Edit - not sure if it matters but i have a 100 mg daily oxy habit...

 

[hellocatastrophe]

^^ take it.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I agree with OC4ME. I've taken Tussionex under prescription three or four times now (it seems whenever I get a chest cold I either get it really bad or don't get it at all, and end up having to see my doctor, who considers codeine worthless for treating coughs...I tend to agree with him) and the high is really strange. Sort of like taking a vicodin and three benadryls... The antihistamine in there knocks you down but does enhance the hydrocodone nicely if you get the dosing right.

It also works WONDERS for fixing my cough/letting me sleep at night when I'm really sick.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Belongs in the mega thread.

 

[DexterMeth]

I'm hoping subutex will work better, but subs haven't controlled my cravings at any dose. I take <2mg subs, and I'm not really concerned about blocking....just wanna feel "normal" or at least, not worse than when I started. I'm considering using tramadol/codeine/pods before going to mdone, but it would be nice if tex would work - much easier/cheaper than online pharms or telling my old gp I need mdone....I don't think I'll have a problem getting it from him, but he's a family friend, so it's kinda awkward. Thanks for your reply.

Anybody else have any experience with suboxone vs subutex's effects on cravings? I plan on giving it a chance for ~3 weeks, but I'd like to get an idea of what to expect.

It's a huge mistake to confuse general anxiety with the need fro more opiate agonisation. Sure, you might have more anxiety than you used to, while sober, since you fucked yourself over with opiates, but it's still anxiety. Using more tends to make things worse, every time, in the end for me. If it's general stress and anxiety (no matter how bad) that you're dealing with, stick with the bupe, and talk to your doctor about anti-anxiolics. Bupe works great imo, but I had to learn to get my anxiety under control and properly deal with it first. Using methadone as an anti-anxiety med is just going to fuck you over.

I don't get how you'd feel any difference between suboxone and subutex. One tastes like bitter chemical orange, the other tastes like plado. Some people have a hyper sensitivity to the naloxone in suboxone, but this is actually quite rare. A lot more people however are allergic to (have some sort of bad reaction) to the orange dye in suboxone, so they are put on subutex instead. If I can ever get switched over to subutex I will, simply because it is not feasible for me to always spit out my suboxone (after it dissolves). I spit it out every day after letting it dissolve, and then let that sit in my mouth for a few minutes, spitting out the useless stuff. I don't get a headache if I do it like this, but I mean come on really? Why should I not just get subutex? I haven't brought this up with my doctor yet, but I'm still establishing a repore and more importantly trust.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

so I was wondering if anybody noticed any difference in cravings between subs and tex?

No difference at all for me.

BTW, how long does it usually take for someone to become comfortable with a lower dosage?

It's a very quick process. One time, I accidentally made the solution batch 1/2 as potent as I intended. I did not notice a difference, other than taking an abnormally longer time to adjust to it (which was about a week or two, instead of a day or two).

If you taper gradually, I would say that you can decrease your dose by 10-25% every other to every third day. You may find waiting a full week in between dropping the dose down a little is more comfortable, but I would say two weeks is definitely long enough, even if you're doing a 50% to 100% decrease.

I don't know why it happens, but its very consistent now.

Your blood pressure is increased, since your body accounts for the fact that your tolerance has increased, it prepares itself for a larger dose by counteracting the expected CNS effects. For opiate addicts, this means an automated stimulation of the CNS system, for cocaine/meth/upper addicts, this means an automated depression of the CNS system.

Its hard for me to make the switch because of this, and I'm curious if anyone in here has ever gotten cocky and just said eff it? How bad are actual PWDs? I figure if I'm alone in my house I can just lay on my bed a couple of hours then feel ok once the subs break through, but I've never experienced PWDs before so naturally I'm scared.

I couldn't tell you, but I do know people have done this on Bluelight, Oxymorphone is a good example of someone who has done this.

I know this has prolly been covered pleanty of times in this thread but i figured ill ask it again. I took 3mgs of Subs yesterday, it was my first time ever taking them. Fast forward to today, 24 hours later i want to do an Oxy80. Will i be able to feel the Oxy for the most part or do i need to wait a little bit longer?

Edit - not sure if it matters but i have a 100 mg daily oxy habit...

Some people would feel it fine, others wouldn't. You would have to try it to find out.

I would say just take more Suboxone if it's an option.

 

[Bojangles69]

Wow Captain Heroin that makes more sense than anything I was able to come up with myself & this has genuinely been driving me crazy because I didn't know what to call it or what was causing it.

That has to be what it is. I never realized blood pressure can make you want to literally rip your skin off. It couldn't be real wds I because it happens entirely way too quick, like an automated response just like you say. The second I notice the last bit of the glow is gone (the "glow" as in the lastest bit of residual high you can possibly still notice) it seems to start almost instantly.

This is what caused me to start dosing almost a whole day ahead of when actual wds start. I don't mentally have any craving to use at that point at all (I do however when wds start obviously lol) but I am almost "forced" to use now just to stop my blood pressure from spinning out of control.
What makes more sense than anything, is the fact that I genetically have high blood pressure off of pods, and I stopped taking my BP meds around when I started doing pods again 2 years back. And it would also make sense that its so unbearable cause I'm already genetically predisposed to high BP.
This is adding so many thoughts to my head now because 3 weeks ago I started to lose feeling between the tip of my left pinky finger and the middle of my left hand (still hasn't come back yet). I thought it was the smoking that was causing the numbness, but I'm actually thinking the culprit is this automated state of extreme high blood pressure and hot flashes. Its prob dissolving my nerves like battery acid, and that finger/hand is numb 24/7 now. I understand smoking is prob aggravating the whole response, but I think more specifically its the blood pressure causing the numbness. And its weird how the numbness started not too long after this hot flash/goosebump issue was going on. I've been smoking for 15 years and not ONCE experienced numbness in anything.

Gzz I can't get over how much sense this all makes now!
So if this IS whats going on, then theoretically, when I wake up tommorow, a nice dose of inderal should stop it?
I have it on hand so I might as well try. I'm going to wake up tommorow and shower, then wait for my first hot flash, and I'll take around 60-80mg inderal (which is usually a "shut down" dose for me, as in it shuts down my adrenaline and drops my bp back to normal no matter how high my BP is). Wow I will be so happy if the inderal stops this.

Then I'll REALLY know its time to get off pods for good because my health is too degraded at this point to continue ignoring anymore. I have no feeling in my left pinky/hand, my skin crawls ALL DAY LONG when I'm not even close to wds.... I think its time to officially get on subs. My body is def trying to communicate something to me, and I need to stop ignoring all this crap.

Thanks Captain H. Everytime I talk to you I get focused and feel armed with the knowledge/power you give people.

 

[DexterMeth]

A good rule of thumb is at least 2 full days (48hrs). But if you really want it to be our of you wait 3-4 days. You will get high even after 1 full day but you'll waste a lot. Just google "buprenorphine half-life". That's how long it stays in your body.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I got excited when I saw you posted...you usually answer EVERYTHING...lol...but yeah 8mg of subs daily...4 days...how long till i party with opiates again?

I've never taken 8mg of Suboxone in a day (and if I do, it was so long ago I don't remember) - when I was switching back and forth I was only taking 2mg of Suboxone a day.

I think if you wait 24 to 48 hours it should be good for you, then again, some people would feel it at 12 hours, others at 72.

24 to 48 hours is long enough for it to work its way out of your system so you can get decently high, depending on your tolerance and how much of the full agonist you're using.

Good luck!

PS

I have had a lot less time to post in here, so if I miss your question, feel free to point it out to me or PM me. Life can catch up with you very quickly.

Wow Captain Heroin that makes more sense than anything I was able to come up with myself & this has genuinely been driving me crazy because I didn't know what to call it or what was causing it.

That has to be what it is. I never realized blood pressure can make you want to literally rip your skin off. It couldn't be real wds I because it happens entirely way too quick, like an automated response just like you say. The second I notice the last bit of the glow is gone (the "glow" as in the lastest bit of residual high you can possibly still notice) it seems to start almost instantly.

This is what caused me to start dosing almost a whole day ahead of when actual wds start. I don't mentally have any craving to use at that point at all (I do however when wds start obviously lol) but I am almost "forced" to use now just to stop my blood pressure from spinning out of control.
What makes more sense than anything, is the fact that I genetically have high blood pressure off of pods, and I stopped taking my BP meds around when I started doing pods again 2 years back. And it would also make sense that its so unbearable cause I'm already genetically predisposed to high BP.
This is adding so many thoughts to my head now because 3 weeks ago I started to lose feeling between the tip of my left pinky finger and the middle of my left hand (still hasn't come back yet). I thought it was the smoking that was causing the numbness, but I'm actually thinking the culprit is this automated state of extreme high blood pressure and hot flashes. Its prob dissolving my nerves like battery acid, and that finger/hand is numb 24/7 now. I understand smoking is prob aggravating the whole response, but I think more specifically its the blood pressure causing the numbness. And its weird how the numbness started not too long after this hot flash/goosebump issue was going on. I've been smoking for 15 years and not ONCE experienced numbness in anything.

Gzz I can't get over how much sense this all makes now!
So if this IS whats going on, then theoretically, when I wake up tommorow, a nice dose of inderal should stop it?
I have it on hand so I might as well try. I'm going to wake up tommorow and shower, then wait for my first hot flash, and I'll take around 60-80mg inderal (which is usually a "shut down" dose for me, as in it shuts down my adrenaline and drops my bp back to normal no matter how high my BP is). Wow I will be so happy if the inderal stops this.

Then I'll REALLY know its time to get off pods for good because my health is too degraded at this point to continue ignoring anymore. I have no feeling in my left pinky/hand, my skin crawls ALL DAY LONG when I'm not even close to wds.... I think its time to officially get on subs. My body is def trying to communicate something to me, and I need to stop ignoring all this crap.

Thanks Captain H. Everytime I talk to you I get focused and feel armed with the knowledge/power you give people.

BP meds would help if they lower your blood pressure. In opiate withdrawal, you have a high blood pressure because your body is expecting you to dose. When that doesn't happen, the high BP remains and isn't alleviated.

I don't know how much BP meds would help (half way, just a little, or 100%, etc.) but I do think at the very least it would help out some for sure.

This is also a reason why a lot of people will recmmend clonidine (a BP med) for opiate withdrawal.

I also have experienced some of the worst opiate WD symptoms as a result of having high BP and am thoroughly thankful I finally stopped using heroin. While I still get light goosebumps sometimes, that's about the worst of it.

I am glad that I have been able to be of assistance! That makes it all the more worthwhile. I think that these are things you should be taught in public school. I think it's horrible that people graduate "high school" knowing 1% of what they should about their own bodies and their own health/medical care.

Doctors do not deserve to make as much money as they do, and neither do pharmaceutical companies. The more empowered people are with knowledge about their own health and medical care and well being, the better off all of us are. The fact that you understand this and it makes sense to you shows that people DO want to know more about their own bodies and their own health and medical care, and it's one of the "straws that broke the camel's back" so to speak, about why public education is nothing more than over-priced day care in my opinion.

You would be appalled if you were me... because 90% of the doctors I have seen are not as smart as I am. It's not like I've even graduated college yet, it just seems I actually learned something in my college education, while other doctors stuck their head up their ass and somehow they managed to get a diploma. Not all doctors are this ignorant of course, but a lot of them are.

 

[Lando138]

So i've been on subs roughly six months, but about half way through i took a break (aka relapsed), and a month later i went back to get back on them and the drug screen showed the suboxone was still in my system. After over a MONTH of not taking them. Any ideas why? I don't think i've ever heard that it stays in your system that long.

 

[Znegative]

well, suboxone's half life is 36 hours. if you were on a high dose of say 24 mg, after 36 hours you would still have 12 mg, then 6, then 3, then 1.5, then .75, .3525 etc etc. (btw I'm sorry if my math is off, not my specialty, but i believe you would reach the .3525 mark at about 9 days).

 

[needlejuice]

ive been roughing it lately. everyone in my town has been out of bupe for like 2 weeks. i owe my doctor too much money and cant go back unless i pay him half of what i owe which is like 800 dollars. its fucked up cuz i get subs for free thru assistance program and im not sure what theyre going to do with my pills until i have enough money to go back.
so lately ive busted out my stash of subutex cottons (i have hundreds of them). i squeeze out 2 out a time and usually end up squeezing 6 cottons that have prob filtered 1 or 2 mg previously. the rush is the exact same as when i was taking the pill i just wish i knew how much i was getting b3cuz im tryin to taper

 

[Captain.Heroin]

So i've been on subs roughly six months, but about half way through i took a break (aka relapsed), and a month later i went back to get back on them and the drug screen showed the suboxone was still in my system. After over a MONTH of not taking them. Any ideas why? I don't think i've ever heard that it stays in your system that long.

While we don't really do drug testing questions, the idea behind drug tests is that they're inherently flawed. I wouldn't be surprised if you tested positive for drugs that you did not take, or tested negative for drugs you did take.

ive been roughing it lately. everyone in my town has been out of bupe for like 2 weeks. i owe my doctor too much money and cant go back unless i pay him half of what i owe which is like 800 dollars. its fucked up cuz i get subs for free thru assistance program and im not sure what theyre going to do with my pills until i have enough money to go back.
so lately ive busted out my stash of subutex cottons (i have hundreds of them). i squeeze out 2 out a time and usually end up squeezing 6 cottons that have prob filtered 1 or 2 mg previously. the rush is the exact same as when i was taking the pill i just wish i knew how much i was getting b3cuz im tryin to taper

I wouldn't use used cottons at all. I would find a way to start paying the doctor.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^I won't comment at all on how to beat them or anything that violates the rules, I just wanted to throw in that its much more likely to pass a drug test you should fail then fail one you should pass.

In the past, false positive were far more likely but they tweaked most of the standard tests to make them far less frequent because of the high stakes involved... going to jail, losing custody, being arrested, etc. etc.

So although false positives are still possible, statistically false negatives are far more frequent.

We spent weeks talking about all the different forms of drug testing in my counseling courses.

 

[Synto_]

IV Subutex (Brand name pills)

I was a heroine addict for over 10 years. I've been on methadone for about 3 years and was having trouble coming completely off. I was on a low dose, but couldn't come off. I was recently prescribed 24mg of brand name Subutex daily. I've been taking only 16mg Sublingually for less than a week. I have micron filters I bought a loooong time ago and was wondering from those with experience if I could still get just a little faded by IV'ing these, and if so, how many would you recommend?

 

[needlejuice]

when shooting start with 1-2mg if u take16mg subling. u will feel a little more of an effect than ur used to i suggest smoking weed bescuz thats when i feel bupe the best iv'd with some weed

 

[DeLee]

Im both glad and sad today. Glad because i got both Subutex & Buprenotex & my way into the program is continuing.

Im sad because I IV the subs... finally after only filtering with cotton 2-4 veins have dissapeared/died. My left arm has gotten some nerve damafe... don't know if it is the IV subs or weeks of IV/IM/SubQ Ketamine use.. falling asleep in a broken chair evey night..

Anyway, im addicted to the needle to so i sghoot in my hand and feet/legs now - until im in either suboxone or methadone program. They check for track marks here which is good.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^I won't comment at all on how to beat them or anything that violates the rules, I just wanted to throw in that its much more likely to pass a drug test you should fail then fail one you should pass.

In the past, false positive were far more likely but they tweaked most of the standard tests to make them far less frequent because of the high stakes involved... going to jail, losing custody, being arrested, etc. etc.

So although false positives are still possible, statistically false negatives are far more frequent.

We spent weeks talking about all the different forms of drug testing in my counseling courses.

Wow, that's very interesting Cane! This would explain why some doctors get "angry" at their patients when they don't test positive for their medications, even though they take them regularly.

I was a heroine addict for over 10 years. I've been on methadone for about 3 years and was having trouble coming completely off. I was on a low dose, but couldn't come off. I was recently prescribed 24mg of brand name Subutex daily. I've been taking only 16mg Sublingually for less than a week. I have micron filters I bought a loooong time ago and was wondering from those with experience if I could still get just a little faded by IV'ing these, and if so, how many would you recommend?

I would use 0.3mg at the most. Buprenorphine is very potent when shot.

Im both glad and sad today. Glad because i got both Subutex & Buprenotex & my way into the program is continuing.

Im sad because I IV the subs... finally after only filtering with cotton 2-4 veins have dissapeared/died. My left arm has gotten some nerve damafe... don't know if it is the IV subs or weeks of IV/IM/SubQ Ketamine use.. falling asleep in a broken chair evey night..

Anyway, im addicted to the needle to so i sghoot in my hand and feet/legs now - until im in either suboxone or methadone program. They check for track marks here which is good.

Good luck DeLee! From what I know, shooting drugs can be more addictive than the drugs themselves. Keep us updated as you continue your recovery.

 

[smackem]

I was a heroine addict for over 10 years. I've been on methadone for about 3 years and was having trouble coming completely off. I was on a low dose, but couldn't come off. I was recently prescribed 24mg of brand name Subutex daily. I've been taking only 16mg Sublingually for less than a week. I have micron filters I bought a loooong time ago and was wondering from those with experience if I could still get just a little faded by IV'ing these, and if so, how many would you recommend?

How are you doing buddy? I still remember your post about when you got shot... god damn. Hope things are well.

 

[Synto_]

when shooting start with 1-2mg if u take16mg subling. u will feel a little more of an effect than ur used to i suggest smoking weed bescuz thats when i feel bupe the best iv'd with some weed

I might smoke. We'll see. I'm taking the 16mg sublingually but have only been doing so for less than a week. When I take it I don't feel anything. It just keeps me from being sick. If I continue to take the 16mg sublingually for another week or two you would still only recommend banging 1-2mg when I decide to go there??? I would think that I'd have a tolerance and that 1-2mg wouldn't do much.

I'm just trying to get really faded a few times. If I were to bang 8-10mg would I get pretty faded, do you think that would be overkill, or would I need more? I've banged a variety of chems and narcotics but never brand name subutex. This is why I'm asking. Also, once crushed and added to water is it going to gum up and frustrate me or does it break down pretty well?

Damn the above two posts were posted while I was typing out all that ^^^. Preciate the advice Captain.

Smackem, I've been alright man. Long time no see. I haven't been checking the forums as much as I used to. There was a long period of time of adjusting to this new way of life with the wheelchair and everything. The bullet severed my spinal cord at the T-4 level (basically meaning I'm paralyzed from just under the nipples down). At first it was hell. Now that I'm used to it I can do just about everything I could do before. I drive with hand controls, go kayaking every few days, go riding ATVs and Jet-skis all the time. Ive got a fine ass, open minded chick who is loyal as hell. It's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It just took time. The only difference now is I roll around instead of walking. If you remember (its been a long time) I did a pretty significant prison sentence just prior to the shooting. I mean of course sometimes I wish the judge would have given me another few months or hell, even another few years to prevent it..but you can only do what you can do and adapt. Maybe it was a higher power trying to give me a wake up call? I don't know. It slowed me down. Sometimes I wonder where I'd be right now had it not happened. My family and friends are convinced I'd be dead. Who knows? Overall, life's been good to me the past 2 and a half years since the shooting.