Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[poppywonderland]

hey guys iknow this has been covered, but i am just curious for any opinions. i took tramadol 300mg about 24 hrs ago and i am on a very small dose of suboxone probably .5-.7 mg (not sure exactly could be a bit more) im pretty sure im starting to have minor w/d but im not sure if its safe to take my suboxone yet. i really dont want to go through precip w/d. is there anything i should know with tramadol like maybe the half life is longer and i should wait longer ? thanks

From what I have read and someone please correct me it I am wrong, tramadol and bupe can be taken together with no fear of pw.

 

[Lando138]

RFar98 you'll probably find this thread helpful:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=390275

 

[DeLee]

hey guys iknow this has been covered, but i am just curious for any opinions. i took tramadol 300mg about 24 hrs ago and i am on a very small dose of suboxone probably .5-.7 mg (not sure exactly could be a bit more) im pretty sure im starting to have minor w/d but im not sure if its safe to take my suboxone yet. i really dont want to go through precip w/d. is there anything i should know with tramadol like maybe the half life is longer and i should wait longer ? thanks

Tramadol has effect even if ur on bupe but I seriously don't lnow the oyher way around..

 

[RFar98]

thank you all. lando, that thread was very helpful. i can't beleive i didn't know this before. i almost always check on here but i just assumed tramadol was no different

 

[Captain.Heroin]

well thanks a lot for the kind words CH, you're really great on here

I have to say, the Oxy doesnt feel as "fun" as it did before. Probably because part of me is feeling guilty for going back to using since I really do want to quit. I'll see what happens when I run out of this supply. I still have plenty of subs left.

Thanks Ashley! I really try to make an effort to help people out in this thread, because I wish I had known about this thread when I first got on Suboxone.

I also have a theory about why switching from full agonists to buprenorphine and/or back, is less appealing than just using full agonists. I think part of why opiate addiction is so strong, is because when you're in withdrawal, on a scale of positive or negative 10 to 0, you're feeling like -10. Then, when you use, you go to +10 and feel on top of the world.

When on buprenorphine, you feel more like a -3 to +5, depending on where you are with it. So, going from that, to +10 or so, is less appealing/desirable as the strong/instant very low to very high effect that opiate withdrawal to opiate high achieves. I think this is why opiate addiction is very strong for some people, and buprenorphine really is a life saver - it takes away the degree of pleasure/affinity of opiate addiction.

Hey everybody.

The last 3 months I've been either smoking 1-2g of black tar or railing/chewing 120mg OC a day. My habit is getting old and I'm ready to cut off all the goddamn strings the opiates are pulling me by.

I have 10 8mg Subs and wanna know if any of y'all know the best way to rapidly detox, while lessening awful withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. Im fucking broke and cant afford to be on a longterm maintenance program.

Today I took my first sub dose, 19 hrs after I smoked some chiva. 4mg seemed to make me feel okay. How can I best taper with what I've got.

Try 2mg at a time, up to twice per day, but aim for once per day as soon as you can. I think you have the right idea, just make the Suboxone stretch as long as possible and you should be fine.

alright, well its been 24 hours since my last shot of bupe.. I'm going attempt today to bring my overall bupe intake down to 2 mg a day, with 4 .5 mg shots throughout the day..

----------------------

alright, well, I just I.V'd .5 mg into the vein that goes along the bicep (great vein, wish I had tried it earlier!), and its been about 45 minutes, and I'll tell you, I'm feeling real nice! I can't tell if its just placebo because I woke up feeling shitty, but I'm fairly confident that its not. I'm wondering, I know bupes half life doesn't change depending on ROA, but does half life refer to how much of the drug is in your blood, or how many receptors are still occupied? CH said above that it doesn't take as long to bring your tolerance down on partial-agonists as compared to full agonists, and I do believe that, I just didn't think it could happen this fast.

Oh, and BTW, are there other partial agonists?

As I was saying earlier, 0.2mg to me is just as good as 0.5mg. 0.5mg may last a little longer, but that's why it's so easy to taper down with IV buprenorphine; your dose comes to you all at once, and just a little bit of it (in the 100 to 300 microgram range) is enough to get the same effects as a high dose.

About "how many receptors are occupied/unoccupied" - please read this. Overall, the number of receptors you have will decrease slowly back to normal in time. The amount of buprenorphine you take will go down as the receptors go down to a normal level, so it's about a steady percentage IMO, if not slightly less as you taper down.

For people on maintenance, they'll only have an increasing amount of receptors covered, or it'll level out and stay the same (depending on the dose).

Nalbuphine is the only other opiate I could think of that's close to being a partial agonist; and I'm not familiar with it, I don't even know if it specifically should be classified as a "partial agonist" - don't have time to do research, just enough time to answer everyone in the mega thread.

I've been wondering, what about if you're on suboxone and there's an emergency situation where you would need IV pain meds at the hospital or whatever. Will it block it so you're just pretty much F'd? How will they know how much to give you to break through? Is it safe for them to give you enough to break through the sub?

Just something I've been thinking about. Hopefully I, or anyone for that matter, will not have to find out the hard way.

It is dependent on how much Suboxone you take.

I would be able to feel IV opiates on top of my Suboxone dose, I just prefer not to do it that way. If I was in pain, that would be the only reason why I would ever get back on full agonist opiates.

If you are worried that you would be in excruciating pain without relief, taper down on Suboxone until you are at a dose that is comfortable and holds you, without being a large dose - if this is possible.

I would suggest tapering down 1mg per day, or 2mg per day, at the fastest, and 0.5mg per day, or 1 or 2mg after a week (like 8mg one week, 6mg another week, 4mg the next week, and 2mg at the last week, then stabilize on 2mg for a while).

Cane pointed out NSAID's and Deezy pointed out benzos. Besides this, there are other kinds of pain medication, like NMDA recpetor antagonists. I wouldn't worry about feeling pain. If they need to use other non-opiate pain killers for a day or two until your buprenorphine stops interfering with opiates, they will. Then, as the buprenorphine comes out of your system, and recpetors are freed up, full agonist opiates will work better.

thank you all. lando, that thread was very helpful. i can't beleive i didn't know this before. i almost always check on here but i just assumed tramadol was no different

Tramadol and buprenorphine are fine to combine. I haven't tried it personally, but many people on here have without problems.

 

[RFar98]

am i right to understand that taking tramadol and suboxone will potentiate each other?

 

[daddysgone]

am i right to understand that taking tramadol and suboxone will potentiate each other?

yes. but as always, use caution when combining drugs.-DG

 

[RFar98]

yea of course. So i am on a very small dose of sub, about .7 mg / day maybe a bit more. i stopped the sub when i got tramadol, and i took 400 mg the first day and 450 the 2nd day and felt virtually nothing. i felt like a slight slight feeling and i know the drug was working, i was just so shocked that even 450 mg had no effect.

does anyone have experience with this? should i try taking my normal .5 mg dose of sub with the tramadol for a slight buzz? i have the tramadol for tooth pain, but i am trying to get a decent buzz if possible. i havent had any good feeling fom suboxone in a very long time. it just basically keeps me from having really bad cravings, and helps my anxiety (but def. not like it used to).

 

[fistful_of_needles]

yea of course. So i am on a very small dose of sub, about .7 mg / day maybe a bit more. i stopped the sub when i got tramadol, and i took 400 mg the first day and 450 the 2nd day and felt virtually nothing. i felt like a slight slight feeling and i know the drug was working, i was just so shocked that even 450 mg had no effect.

does anyone have experience with this? should i try taking my normal .5 mg dose of sub with the tramadol for a slight buzz? i have the tramadol for tooth pain, but i am trying to get a decent buzz if possible. i havent had any good feeling fom suboxone in a very long time. it just basically keeps me from having really bad cravings, and helps my anxiety (but def. not like it used to).

yeah man , no problem there ,as a matter of fact it´s quite the opposite ,say , do 2mgs Sub and 200 mgsTramadol and it´s likely you´ll be feeling just just a tad closer to that full agonist buzz we all love.

 

[Heroin Girl]

Got scripted Subutex til I can switch to MMT, and so far, most of the side effects are gone. I might have to stay on Subs for a few months, so I was wondering if anybody noticed any difference in cravings between subs and tex?

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Got scripted Subutex til I can switch to MMT, and so far, most of the side effects are gone. I might have to stay on Subs for a few months, so I was wondering if anybody noticed any difference in cravings between subs and tex?

Dude, my advise would be : If you´re feeling ok on Suboxone/Subutex DO NOT switch to Methadone...I´ve tried both and if I knew about Subutex at the time I tried Methadone I´d never have got on it in the 1st place...I think it´d be fair to say that methadone withdrawls are at least 2 times worse than Heroin´s, hence do not make the switch if you feel alright on Subs.Also,remember that methadone DOES NOT block the effects of full agonists,or at least I came to a point when I was doing both Heroin and Methadone daily with terrible consequences.On the other hand if yuo do anything past 4mgs Subutex it will substancially block the effects of full agonists which is a blessing when it comes to dealing with temptation/cravings.I could go on and on about the advantages of Subs compared to methadone ...

 

[Heroin Girl]

I'm hoping subutex will work better, but subs haven't controlled my cravings at any dose. I take <2mg subs, and I'm not really concerned about blocking....just wanna feel "normal" or at least, not worse than when I started. I'm considering using tramadol/codeine/pods before going to mdone, but it would be nice if tex would work - much easier/cheaper than online pharms or telling my old gp I need mdone....I don't think I'll have a problem getting it from him, but he's a family friend, so it's kinda awkward. Thanks for your reply.

Anybody else have any experience with suboxone vs subutex's effects on cravings? I plan on giving it a chance for ~3 weeks, but I'd like to get an idea of what to expect.

 

[Brose]

In my experience suboxone and subutex are practically identical in their effects. A lot of people say that subutex works better for them, which may or may not be a psychological thing for them. Just try it and see how it works for you.

 

[Znegative]

I have a feeling it's a psychological thing, before I got on bupe, they gave me the subutex for a few days. I I.V my bupe, and It works fine for me, but I've never tried I.V'ing subutex. I've heard that the effect is the same, but I'd still rather be shooting something that isn't orange.

Anyway, I've been shooting .5 mg 2x a day for the last three days (jumping down from a pointless 3 day binge in which I shot about 4-6 mg per day.) Things have been going well for the most part, but I've been having problems sleeping, and tonight its become unbarable (I had my second dose at five, and its now 1:25). So I shot up 100 micrograms, just to take the edge off, and it seems to be working quite nicely actually.

I notice that around 5 hours after taking a dose I start to feel kind of anxious/depressed/lethargic, so I'm thinking that I might actually break my doses down into .25, 4x a day, so I feel more held. I know that would still add up to the same 1 mg total, but I'm hoping it will be a bit more comfortable, until I've settled down with this dosage. BTW, how long does it usually take for someone to become comfortable with a lower dosage?

 

[Heroin Girl]

Yeah, I kinda figured it was mostly a placebo. The lack of side effects makes me feel a lot better, though, so I'm hoping I'll miraculously love subs like most of BL.

I was getting sick/anxious after a few hours, and breaking up my dose helped a lot. It takes me one-two weeks to stabilize, depending on how rapidly I tapered.

 

[Bojangles69]

OK stupid question.

Say you got cocky one day and chose not to wait 24-36hrs after your last full agonist dose, say it was around 12 hours after a moderate poppy dose.
I'm relatively sure that will push you into PWD but I'm curious about how long PWD's last.

Am I right in saying that it doesn't matter what you were taking before or what dose, but no matter what PWD won't last over 2 hours? Cause sometimes when I think about it, it seems easier just to take an early sub and deal with PWDs for a couple of hours vs waiting another 12-24 hours just to be "safe".
I ask because even before wds start with me (which usually takes 48 hours with pods) I always have this weird goosebumpy/hot flash feeling going on as early as 8-10 hours after my last dose. Its not wds I don't think, its like my body senses that opiates are leaving its system and I get the worst case of hot flashes/goose bumps, waiting till I'm in proper wds can be like another 24 hours of dealing with it.
I don't know why it happens, but its very consistent now.

I take poppy dose at 0 hours
8-10 hours later (usually after sleep as soon as I wake up) the goose bumps/hot flashes start.
36-48 hours later is when the leg pain, back pain, anxiety, shaking legs, actually start.

But speaking in some weird sense, sometimes I feel like I'd rather take a sub and deal with PWDs if it means I'll spare dealing with the hot flashes and goosebumps for another day and a half.

Its odd because I can deal with pain, but I can NOT deal with the goosebumps, it feels like bugs are crawling in my skin and actually seems to lessen when full wds kick in. I don't know why the hell it happens, I don't think its actual wds, but it drives me out of my mind when it happens.

Its hard for me to make the switch because of this, and I'm curious if anyone in here has ever gotten cocky and just said eff it? How bad are actual PWDs? I figure if I'm alone in my house I can just lay on my bed a couple of hours then feel ok once the subs break through, but I've never experienced PWDs before so naturally I'm scared.

Are PWDs worse than actual wds? People make them out to sound like a horror story. I want to switch back to subs but am having a hard time because of this little issue. Its almost like a weird pre-withdrawal phase, very distinct and lasts usually till actual wds kick in. This problem has cursed me from getting off pods I don't know why its happening.

 

[oldhead]

Bojangles I do it way to often. I go on an OC run and then when I run out I switch over to Subs 12 hours later. I start slow snorted about 1 mg. I start going through mild WD's. I'm doing it right now and feeling OK. My nose is running and eye's watering but its nothing I cant handle. After about an hour I'm OK. Not perfect but OK. After the first hour I snort a little more. Do I miss the OC, hell yeah but I can get through the day.

 

[OPsFORME]

Tussionex Suspension (Yella Yella)

I used to get this shit all the time (couple yrs ago). I'm on suboxone now. I got a few ounces of this yella n waiting 20+ hours from my last dose of suboxone.

My question is... Should I drink more since I'm on suboxone n only waited a day? I have drank about 2 ounces n feel pretty good, but I want to feel amazing. I started off with an oz in some orange soda couple hours ago. Would it be a waste if I just topped it off? I usually would be passed out from 60ml. I think I'm just going to drink the rest.

Has anyone else experience with tuss susp? My drug of choice was heroin n oxycontin. I got on subs to get clean from the H n been doing really well. I wish I could find yella more often cuz in my opinion the high is WAY better then lortabs, oc..etc

Sorry if this post/thread contains errors, I'm pretty messed up at the moment.

 

[qwe]

i acquired a bottle of tus while on subox, i quit the sub for about 20-30 hours and then tried taking the tus. i didn't feel much, ended up taking the whole bottle... it's time released though, so then i ended up laying in bed all night floored

it was a very ODD high. all i could do was lay down. it was like i couldnt move my muscles. i much much prefer the oxycod and oxymorph and hydromorph

i'd suggest drinking maybe half, since the 60ml didnt do the trick. remember, this wont peak for like 3-8hr

 

[OC4ME]

Codeine promethazine is much better high in my opinion because the antihistamine in the tussionex just knocks you out if you take too much. You have to balance your opiate high with staying conscious.