Lysergamides [LSD Subthread] Risks & Dangers

[BiG StroOnZ]

There was no such thing as chemistry or pharmacology back then 8)

idk about this one...

but the underlying point is true, LSD is safe in the right hands.

 

[delta_9]

idk about this one...

Modern chemistry is less than 4 centuries old. Modern pharmacology is even younger.
Do you think ancient peoples who used ayahausca knew anything of MAOIs or the alkaloids they were activating?

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Modern chemistry is less than 4 centuries old. Modern pharmacology is even younger.
Do you think ancient peoples who used ayahausca knew anything of MAOIs or the alkaliods they were activating?

They had to, considering a forest (Amazon for instance) can contain up to 400,000 species of plants. To figure out one activated another (without having such knowledge), would be merely impossible...

Common sense.

 

[delta_9]

Yes, they knew it worked but they didn't know how. They had know idea there were these very tiny things inside those plants called moleules that were interacting with other very tiny molecules inside there own bodies that caused the experience they had.

 

[cosmic charlie]

They had know idea there were these very tiny things inside those plants called moleules that were interacting with other very tiny molecules inside there own bodies that caused the experience they had.

That sounds pretty sexy

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Yes, they knew it worked but they didn't know how. They had know idea there were these very tiny things inside those plants called moleules that were interacting with other very tiny molecules inside there own bodies that caused the experience they had.

My point was, for them to have stumbled on this EXACT COMBINATION is very unlikely without some "foreknowledge"

 

[cosmic charlie]

My point was, for them to have stumbled on this EXACT COMBINATION is very unlikely without some "foreknowledge"

I think it was more like trial and error

 

[delta_9]

My point was, for them to have stumbled on this EXACT COMBINATION is very unlikely without some "foreknowledge"

Well, I like to think that primitive man just walked around eating whatever he could find(plants, mushrooms, etc.) and eventually happened upon some special plants/fungi with certain alkaloids. And instead of hating the experience and never eating the plants again like we're supposed to(as some alkaloids only react to mammals and function as a sort of defense mechanism for the plant/fungi), we associated the experience with something spiritual and mystical and over time developed some of the earliest religions(some of which worshipped the mushroom). The rest is history.
This is all pretty much bound to happen as per evolution.

That sounds pretty sexy

Hmm, well mushrooms do make me horny

 

[fastandbulbous]

^^^ Yes it has, and I know it causes problems because it has been causing problems constantly for long periods of time. If the ancient Sumerian were taking LSD in 3000 B.C. and there had been no negative effects I wouldn't be skeptical at all about our knowledge of LSD. It seems to me that you are trying to tell me that I shouldn't be cautious about LSD and that it's harmless. I want to be cautious about LSD in case it isn't harmless. How can you be sure that humans will not be negatively effected hundreds of years down the road because of LSD use?

Because humans don't live hundreds of years! If you mean society in general, then I think it's benefiteed (at least 2 Nobel lauriates have good things to say about it - not bad going when you consider they were both life science lauriates)

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

I think it was more like trial and error

400,000+ plants though, and one specific combination just doesn't work well with probability.

Well, I like to think that primitive man just walked around eating whatever he could find(plants, mushrooms, etc.) and eventually happened upon some special plants/fungi with certain alkaloids. And instead of hating the experience and never eating the plants again like we're supposed to(as some alkaloids only react to mammals and function as a sort of defense mechanism for the plant/fungi), we associated the experience with something spiritual and mystical and over time developed some of the earliest religions(some of which worshipped the mushroom). The rest is history.
This is all pretty much bound to happen as per evolution.

I believe evolution exists in every aspect of this world, except for man

 

[delta_9]

I believe evolution exists in every aspect of this world, except for man

Then you're a fool.

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Then you're a fool.

Look at the evidence skeptically, only one who you're fooling is yourself

 

[MistaJeff]

Look at the evidence skeptically, only one who you're fooling is yourself

We're still evolving. In bad ways too. Human women can die during child birth very easily if they were to just try and shit out a baby the way all other mammals do. That is something relatively new. In the future it could be quite possible that humans will be unable to deliver children vaginally. Have you ever seen a cow give birth? Compare that to how humans do.

 

[any major dude]

I would say as a species we're probably devolving at the moment. We've created a situation in which those least equipped to survive tend to reproduce the most. I wonder how many more generations til we're back in trees.

Also, I'm pretty confident that LSD is pretty health neutral, physically anyway. For mental health it tends to go either really well, or really poorly, the (EDIT)former obviously being the more common of the two

 

[treezy z]

it's not bad for your brain, it can be bad for you psychologically if you do it when your life is shit (just lost a job, someone died, end of a long relationship) although it can also help see the positives, it could go either way though so it's not really worth it. it can also be bad for you psychologically if you do it in a shitty location (home if you still live with your parents, psych ward, around people you don't want knowing you're high, around fucked up people who will intentionally fuck with your head.)

i've never really had a "bad" trip, as in psychological damage, and some shitty, scary, uncomfortable trips end up being good trips in hind sight (realizing i'm fucking up in some area of life and fixing the problem.)

also, i think my extensive use of psychedelics has made me pretty damn lazy. i just don't see the point in material wealth. i'm satisfied getting ssdi, foodstamps, living in subsidised housing and working 20 hours a week as long as i don't knock anyone up.
(i know i'm gonna get hated on for taking handouts, i don't give a shit.)

 

[any major dude]

there's nothing wrong with rejecting middle-class ambitions

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

^Apples and oranges. Lsd is probably one of the most researched compounds ever. So alcohol has been used for thousands of years, that dosen't mean it was "researched". There was no such thing as chemistry or pharmacology back then 8)

Don't deny that using something for thousands of years doesn't add at least a little bit of plausibility to the idea that in moderate amounts alcohol can be safe. Statistics can be as powerful as chemistry or pharmacology. As much as one might have the tendency to portray alcohol as a super evil drug just because it's legal and socially acceptable, that's not really the case. Alcohol in moderation is hardly more dangerous than occasional psychedelic use.

there's nothing wrong with rejecting middle-class ambitions

There is nothing particularly "right" or noble in rejecting such ambitions either. It's one thing to do something useful and help people out while giving up such ambitions and another thing to just sit on your ass all day and "fight the man".

I would think one way in which LSD is bad for some people is that it can trigger underlying mental health problems and really mess up your mental state (like Syd Barret). But that's not really the LSD, as quite a few things could act like a trigger.

P.S. I love LSD and I think its an awesome chemical, but I also dislike elitist statements on how alcohol is the root of all evil et al. Alcohol has it purpose in our society and if you don't recognize its benefits you're not much better than than the "LSD will make you jump out of the window" crowd. Not everyone would be into shrooms or LSD even if they where legal.

 

[delta_9]

^When did I say alcohol was any more or any less dangerous then psychedelics? Don't put words in my mouth. I simply said that even though we used certain substances for thousands of years, we've only recently discovered how they really work, and in many cases we're still learning.

 

[isotopic_parody]

Way too much hostility in this thread guys.

LOVE. Let it flow into and out of you in everything you do. Has LSD not a message?

 

[jamaica0535]

Honestly, im full of hearing my mates tell me after "7 tabs" your mentally insane, i know alot of you guys have taken hundreds, and all seem like average people

Ive taken roughly 15 my self and feel no type of insanity or schizophrena coming on.Im just wanting to know how bad LSD is for your brain.

Thanks in advanced

if your not already predisposed to mental illness, its not very likey.....

The people who go insane are those with a history of mental illness or have a family history of it....

HPPD can result, mildly persisting visuals....

I know people who have eaten 20-50 hits at one time....