[MEGA] God

[MynameisnotDeja]

To be clear, I am not calling you a schizophrenic. What I was trying to do is point out that some people have experiences that are very real to them, and using a schizophrenic as an example seemed to illustrate the point pretty well.

Maybe I lack tact, but that shouldn't impede upon the conversation unless people are overly sensitive.

I personally believe schizophrenics are not insane, just that they see more than they can handle.

 

[Enlitx]

Because there isn't evidence for matters which involve faith.

ONCE AGAIN, if you rely so much on evidence, and demand it, WHAT are you doing in a forum for spirituality and philosophy, two matters which usually involve a great deal of faith and open mindedness?

I come on here to discuss these ideas. You do realize that there is a lot of philosophy and spirituality that don't rely on blind faith right? It is not as if a prerequisite for philosophy is a complete lack of reason or logic. In fact, I think people do philosophy a disservice by not applying critical thinking to ideas.

 

[Enlitx]

I personally believe schizophrenics are not insane, just that they see more than they can handle.

And what do you base this idea off of?

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

But you aren't discussing it. You are coming in and saying "my way or the highway" and refusing to see our point of view.. and then calling our beliefs "bullshit" because there is no "on paper" evidence. You already knew there was no on paper evidence for any of these experiences before you spoke to any of us, so what exactly is your motivation? To change our minds?

PLEASE don't imply I have a "lack of reason or logic". I trust what I see and feel to be real, and I trust MYSELF in my ability to judge whats true in my life.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

And what do you base this idea off of?

It's my opinion. I've seen demons, I've seen angels, I've had scary experiences, psychic experiences, etc etc etc. I've seen and felt and thought a lot of crazy shit, stuff that sometimes becomes overwhelming.

I've seen the sort of stuff a lot of schizophrenics babble on about, and often times I understand some of what they are saying. I believe they are sensitives who simply run with it and then get lost in the deep end. There probably is most certainly some difference in their brains from that of a normal person, I'm not denying that there's some sort of imbalance. I probably have some sort of "imbalance" as well if they tested my brain, but that doesn't mean what they (or I) have seen is somehow not real. I think they just got lost in it somehow.

 

[Enlitx]

But you aren't discussing it. You are coming in and saying "my way or the highway" and refusing to see our point of view.. and then calling our beliefs "bullshit" because there is no "on paper" evidence. You already knew there was no on paper evidence for any of these experiences before you spoke to any of us, so what exactly is your motivation? To change our minds?

PLEASE don't imply I have a "lack of reason or logic". I trust what I see and feel to be real, and I trust MYSELF in my ability to judge whats true in my life.

I am discussing it. I am just not accepting everything at face value. I am completely open to people supporting their ideas, I am good with that. What is the point for these forums if everyone just shares and everyone else nods their heads? Shouldn't be about getting input? Shouldn't it be about challenging other's notions? Head over to the philosophy boards at www.iidb.org. They talk a lot about philosophy, but they challenge each other in a candid way that fosters extremely intellectual discussion. If it isn't about actually challenging ideas, why not just put it in your blog?

Deducing that the world works a certain way because you experienced it without any external support or validation is a lack of reason and logic.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Deducing that the world works a certain way because you experienced it without any external support or validation is a lack of reason and logic.

External support? The hundreds and hundreds (literally) of people I've met and talked to who have seen, felt, and experienced things similar to myself.

 

[L2R]

Calling bullshit and being skeptical are the same thing dressed up in different wrappings. I believe it is bullshit, so unless there is no substantiating evidence or logic to support it, I would call bullshit. I guess I could say, "Well, your ideas really conflict with reality and reason", but I am not one to beat around the bush.

It is coming down to semantics and how people are taking this. I am refraining from personal attacks and being unruly. I will still be candid though.

no this isn't semantics at all. this is all about respect and manners, the same topic i've been addressing in all of my posts.

you are the main hinderence to you ever seeing any evidence with relation to the subject at hand. you are just blowing smoke with your arguments since you have yet to even consider the topic. you are only expressing antagonistic and troll like behaviour in this thread.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

you are the main hinderence to you ever seeing any evidence with relation to the subject at hand. you are just blowing smoke with your arguments since you have yet to even consider the topic. you are only expressing antagonistic and troll like behaviour in this thread.

Beautifully put.

 

[Enlitx]

It's my opinion. I've seen demons, I've seen angels, I've had scary experiences, psychic experiences, etc etc etc. I've seen and felt and thought a lot of crazy shit, stuff that sometimes becomes overwhelming.

I've seen the sort of stuff a lot of schizophrenics babble on about, and often times I understand some of what they are saying. I believe they are sensitives who simply run with it and then get lost in the deep end. There probably is most certainly some difference in their brains from that of a normal person, I'm not denying that there's some sort of imbalance. I probably have some sort of "imbalance" as well if they tested my brain, but that doesn't mean what they (or I) have seen is somehow not real. I think they just got lost in it somehow.

There is a possibility you are schizophrenic, and i don't mean that as an attack. You just fit some of the symptoms.

This is exactly what I am talking about though. If scientists have tied these thoughts to chemical imbalances and characterized the chemicals involved as being able to produce these feelings, why wouldn't you think it wasn't just a disease? If certain drugs can even reproduce some of the psychosis involved in schizophrenia, it is almost certainly chemical.

I guess this is a prime example. You are claiming that decades of research into schizophrenia is not true, and you base this on a feeling. No evidence, just the fact that you "think" that they are seeing real things, when all evidence points to the contrary. I could bring up all the biochemical evidence that it is just a mental disorder, but that would take forever because it is so well established. You can't just say that you think it is not a disease and expect people to think that because you feel that way, your idea is as good as anyone else's.

 

[Enlitx]

no this isn't semantics at all. this is all about respect and manners, the same topic i've been addressing in all of my posts.

you are the main hinderence to you ever seeing any evidence with relation to the subject at hand. you are just blowing smoke with your arguments since you have yet to even consider the topic. you are only expressing antagonistic and troll like behaviour in this thread.

The main hinderence of seeing any real evidence thus far has been a lack of evidence. I really disagree that it has been troll like behavior as well. I stepped over the line once or twice in a threat that has well over 100 posts in it. I apologized when I did, and from that point on I have been strictly focusing on ideas. From now on, point out if I am attacking somebody and not an idea and I will gladly stop. For right now I would like to focus on the actual topic and now keep arguing about how I hurt someone's feelings.

 

[Enlitx]

External support? The hundreds and hundreds (literally) of people I've met and talked to who have seen, felt, and experienced things similar to myself.

So is Zeus real because all the Greeks expereinced and felt that he was? See what I am getting at?

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

There is a possibility you are schizophrenic, and i don't mean that as an attack. You just fit some of the symptoms.

This is exactly what I am talking about though. If scientists have tied these thoughts to chemical imbalances and characterized the chemicals involved as being able to produce these feelings, why wouldn't you think it wasn't just a disease? If certain drugs can even reproduce some of the psychosis involved in schizophrenia, it is almost certainly chemical.

I guess this is a prime example. You are claiming that decades of research into schizophrenia is not true, and you base this on a feeling. No evidence, just the fact that you "think" that they are seeing real things, when all evidence points to the contrary. I could bring up all the biochemical evidence that it is just a mental disorder, but that would take forever because it is so well established. You can't just say that you think it is not a disease and expect people to think that because you feel that way, your idea is as good as anyone else's.

It's all semantics.

What makes you think brain chemistry doesn't simply influence the way we experience the universe? How is that experience any less "real" because some people don't have brains that function in a way to allow them to see some things. And I have not once claimed that decades of research on schizophrenia isn't true. Where did I say that?

There is NO scientific knowledge out there that I feel goes against anything I believe. The fact that something chemical happens in the blody when someone is experiencing something doesn't mean that the experience is limited to chemical.

There is a possibility you are schizophrenic, and i don't mean that as an attack. You just fit some of the symptoms.

LOL, hun, if I'm schizophrenic then I will get down on my knees and thank God for schizophrenia, because quite honestly, I am one of the happiest, and most emotionally balanced people I know. I'm the one all my friends come to for advice. I'm organized, in control of my life, very motivated and working hard on my career and personal development, etc. I don't mean to sound like "look at me, I'm so awesome" or anything, just trying to show that I truly love myself, others, the world, enjoy the fuck out of my life, am living all my dreams, and if that's schizophrenic, then I wish that sort of blessing on everyone!

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

So is Zeus real because all the Greeks expereinced and felt that he was? See what I am getting at?

There is no point in saying this, but yes I believe Zeus was real.

 

[Enlitx]

It's all semantics.

What makes you think brain chemistry doesn't simply influence the way we experience the universe? How is that experience any less "real" because some people don't have brains that function in a way to allow them to see some things. And I have not once claimed that decades of research on schizophrenia isn't true. Where did I say that?

There is NO scientific knowledge out there that I feel goes against anything I believe. The fact that something chemical happens in the blody when someone is experiencing something doesn't mean that the experience is limited to chemical.

That is what I am saying, brain chemistry influences the way we experience the universe. And I just got done saying it is pretty real to you if you are experiencing it. It is a pretty safe bet that if you introduce chemical X, and reaction Y happens that it is because of chemical X. Especially if it is reproduced over and over again. And if you really think that they are being opened up to what is out there, you either have to provide some kind of logic for that or else apply occam's razor (which is a philosophical tool, don't blame me).

LOL, hun, if I'm schizophrenic then I will get down on my knees and thank God for schizophrenia, because quite honestly, I am one of the happiest, and most emotionally balanced people I know. I'm the one all my friends come to for advice. I'm organized, in control of my life, very motivated and working hard on my career and personal development, etc. I don't mean to sound like "look at me, I'm so awesome" or anything, just trying to show that I truly love myself, others, the world, enjoy the fuck out of my life, am living all my dreams, and if that's schizophrenic, then I wish that sort of blessing on everyone!

I guess I don't see what this has to do with what we were talking about. Where did I say that schizophrenics have bad lives?

 

[Enlitx]

There is no point in saying this, but yes I believe Zeus was real.

I think it is more productive to seperate myths from fact. They are called the Greek Myths for a reason.

 

[L2R]

The main hinderence of seeing any real evidence thus far has been a lack of evidence.

With your attitude, this outcome is inevitable. Stop wasting everyone's time with your futile and redundant inquiries.

I really disagree that it has been troll like behavior as well. I stepped over the line once or twice in a threat that has well over 100 posts in it. I apologized when I did, and from that point on I have been strictly focusing on ideas. From now on, point out if I am attacking somebody and not an idea and I will gladly stop. For right now I would like to focus on the actual topic and now keep arguing about how I hurt someone's feelings.

The advice many of us are giving you are primarily for your benefit. If you aren't willing to take them on board, then it is your loss.

 

[Enlitx]

With your attitude, this outcome is inevitable. Stop wasting everyone's time with your futile and redundant inquiries.

Please point me to any evidence whatsover that didn't come down to "I feel this way" or "I just have faith", because that is not evidence. Hell, I am not strictly after evidence, just some sound logic. It is not an attitude, it is an observation about what has been primarily offered in this thread.

The advice many of us are giving you are primarily for your benefit. If you aren't willing to take them on board, then it is your loss.

When I try to get people to use logic to support their arguments it is primarily for their benefit and the benefit of philosophy.

 

[L2R]

There is more to life than your understanding of "logic". This last post of your continues with the same pointless approach, so it is clear you are either incapable or unwilling to have an open mind and/or open discussion.

This really is a waste of everyone's time. I have more productive things to do than spend it with someone such as yourself.

Try to rationalise to yourself that MNISND and I are fleeing from your supreme form of incredulity all you want. Just know that you never held the tools to have this discussion in the first place.

 

[Enlitx]

There is more to life than your understanding of "logic". This last post of your continues with the same pointless approach, so it is clear you are either incapable or unwilling to have an open mind and/or open discussion.

This really is a waste of everyone's time. I have more productive things to do than spend it with someone such as yourself.

Try to rationalise to yourself that MNISND and I are fleeing from your supreme form of incredulity all you want. Just know that you never held the tools to have this discussion in the first place.

I agree that this is getting rather pointless. I really need to stress this point though, having an open mind does not mean you agree with someone. Some people on this board just want to be told their ideas are valid. They aren't looking for an honest discussion about how the universe might work. Like I said, head over to www.iidb.org and check out their philosophy discussion, it is like night and day compared to this one.

Way to end your posts with an ad hominem