How to - Deal with LE.

[Verybuffed]

IE; if you have 200mg pills that consist of 100mg MDMA, 50mg Caffeine & 50mg binders, are you charged for the 200mg pills or just the 100mg of MDMA in them? Same with the speed & MD powder/crystal, weight inclusive of cutters etc or just the actives?

You'll get done for 200mg of ecstacy, the old urban myth used to be that they'll include the weight of the baggie as well.

I am seem to remember something about 200 grams of Cannabis being the weight limit before personal use becomes trafficking. Something like that anyway.

 

[fortehlulz]

Had a bit of a search but guess my wording was wrong and am a tad lazy.

But what I'm after is at what weights, in Victoria

In the words of the most brilliant sock puppet in advertising, 'the answers you seek' can be found on Austlii.edu.au, search under Victoria, Consolidated Acts, Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act, the various schedules under the Act (at the bottom of the page). To clarify some points made in said legislation, go to Victoria, Consolidated regulations, then Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances regulations.

I personally prefer austlii's linking system to the Victorian Government's legislation.vic.gov.au which gives you a lengthy, unlinked PDF or Word doc to trawl through.

 

[Verybuffed]

^^
Wow that site is amazing. I never even knew it existed. Thanks for the info.

 

[Smoifer]

Awesome, thank ye muchly! Top bloke fortehlulz.

 

[Smoifer]

Here's another good table i stumbled across.

http://www.aic.gov.au/research/drugs/responses/legislation/penalties-vic.html

 

[mushi mushi 88]

In the words of the most brilliant sock puppet in advertising, 'the answers you seek' can be found on Austlii.edu.au

WOW that site is very interesting, read up on a few good to know Acts on their... I will definitely be passing on the link to some other people that may find it good to read. I'll definitely be giving it to my sister as she is becoming a federal police officer and she will find it very handy for some of her exams!

 

[dabb]

I have too many questions that I've wondered about since looking over much of the NSW drug legislation a while back. If fortehlulz or anyone else who knows for certain have time to answer any of them that would be great. I realise this post is too long to read through and many of these questions are about 'how much is this enforced in NSW' or 'why do cops do this' which could well be something no one is familiar with but i'm very interested in any possible replies so figured i would ask.

How much is constructive possession actually enforced in NSW, only in situations its pretty clear a persons carrying of benefit of the group or that, atleast, the driver must of known about it?
SWIM has some overly anxious female friends who occasionally inquire if swim is carrying drugs when he is in their car, while swim really doesn't like lying to them he concludes a lie will actually keep them safe. They only ever ask when they see a cop car, btw not as he's getting in and still has the option to leave them behind.

How can NSW have such stupid laws considering only total quantity not purity as important? Will you really have the onus on you to prove that you're not a dealer if you get caught with only an 8ball of speed or 7 or 8 pills or are the laws actually designed and enforced so thats only likely to happen if you also have $6000 cash, quality scales and 40 satties (lil ziploc bags) in the new beamer you drive despite being 'unemployed' for the last 3 years?

In which way might it be possible to prove the drugs weren't to sell, e.g how do you prove you don't have extra money, seems there could only be a lack of evidence verifiable only if the cops investigated you. Surely this law can only approach reasonable, in a society that's meant to hold innocent until proven guillty, when the quantity makes 99% certain they were not for personal use rather than when it's an amount easily consumed in a night.

I remember hearing cops can now raid homes without a warrant signed by a judge/magistrate, they apparently needed this power as drug houses in Redfern would switch location at such a pace that search warrants couldn't be obtained quickly enough. Supposedly it wasn't to be used widely but they always say that before quietly expanding it later. What does this make the current situation regarding drug houseraids, have they already exceeded their initial purview and now preform many raids without warrants or do they still generally need one, going in without one perhaps needing to be well justified? Are the target occupants in a raid generally searched and if so is it a basic search or a full strip/grab your groin through your pants search?

 

[dabb]

*apologies bout double post, can't believe the size of this post in end*

If search warrants are still relevant how long does it typically take to obtain one on a weekday/late weeknight/weekend? What if you exercise your right to ring a friend and explain what happened, is that likely to cause the cops to send a car to watch over your place, as i might expect that but i've known of people who managed to get their house clean not by having stuff disposed of stuff but simply relocated.

A group at an event are being watched over, the guy holding 150 pills and the guy taking 10 at a time off him to sell are in trouble and technically i think the girl holding and managing the satties (baggies) could be charged with aiding abetting right? In reality could they bothered with her or other girl holding the cash?

I've heard that phone taps in Sydney are only ever used on midlevel players and up, for example in the case of pills 500+ a week, which would seem to make sense given the time and hassle involved but does anyone know any actual police policy?

Sorry about the length if anyone is still reading this but i still have to say i'm really surprised the mods are taking such a narrow view of HM and considering any questions that sound dealing related unacceptable. There is a bunch of valid hm reasons why you may need certain accurate information other than your trying to be the maddest slickest dealer possible. If you know people involved in dealing then you might want to convince them it's not as risk free as people generally say it is (often other dealers really just reassuring themselves). In the case they get caught, thats a disaster for your friend and parralleling, for example, the situation of an OD assisting your friend will require as much accurate info as possible. You will want to know what they will be up against in court and that is probably determined by how exactly they were busted. If the concern is about self-incrimination there can't be that many people skilled enough to be of any interest to le but dumb enough to just straight out themself here.

Further than this is the fact that the system just isn't fucking fair at all. Ending up charged with supply is not necessarily just natural consequences from dangerous choices it could happen in all sorts of ways. *warning long personal rant* I know of a guy so messed on drugs he had to be taken from his car by cops and brought to my local police station, once he straightened up he was free to leave, wasn't charged with anything nor did they bother to search his car where they would have found a very large quantity of drugs. Two other occasions i heard about involving cars full of people, both times including dealers with reasonable amounts of drugs ready-for-sale on them, both times a situation encountered by cops so very very sketchy so as everyone was absolutely convinced the car and themselves would be searched. In each case it was impossible the cops didn't know what was going on, they acknowledged they did when briefly talking to them the second time, i can't honestly imagine they could possibly be unaware there were drugs in the car but still each time they were left alone, basically to continue on what they were doing, they just moved to a different spot.

The above all involved cops from the local area, now i have been living here smoking weed for 10 years, 9 years or so i have known whats going on with a great many of the local dealers and religously read the local crime report, no one has ever in that time been raided, or persued otherwise for less than about a kilo, 900 something grams is smallest bust i know of and most are multi-kilo. I honestly thought it was like an unoffical rule that dealing in no more than about a lb/week was 'legal', some who fell right into their lap did get busted but then at other times they seemed to go out of their way to turn a blind eye to drugs in the local area. That is until last week when i read 3 'drug dens' had been shutdown, the serious drugs oozing from these evil dens; one guy had a whole 2 ozs of pot, another just over an oz and a hectic 10 pills, the final guy had just under a 1/4lb. Maybe i shouldn't have bothered typing this no one else will understand but this shattered my idea of justice, i mean how much god damn time did they spend planning the raids, how many people did it require and most of all what the fuck are they doing running investigations into this bullshit, the 3 were in their 20s so i find it very unlikely they were corrupting the young primary kids or anything of any real concern. Small time speed (oz or 2)and pill dealers (60+) did occasionally suffer raids, but that was kind of ok because it was part of the rules, when you can get raided for oz of green and 10 pills then suddenly no ones safe, and maybe he was selling grams to some friends but fuck what a non-issue. Raiding and charging someone over such amounts seems unimaginable and actually quite cruel. Made me realise if your involved with drugs you're always, always taking a risk, you don't have to be a dealer to get done for supply or even raided and charged just fucking unlucky. Its chance keeping any number of people safe from real charges with the police just randomly deciding whether they have an unoffical amnesty towards something or a hugely serious problem requiring huge enforcement efforts.

 

[fortehlulz]

How much is constructive possession actually enforced in NSW, only in situations its pretty clear a persons carrying of benefit of the group or that, atleast, the driver must of known about it?

In practical terms, its leverage on the actual owner to fess up... 'We'll be charging the girls as well with possess if we don't get an admission'... which they are, indeed, well and truly entitled to do if they're so inclined and the owner doesn't play ball.

How can NSW have such stupid laws considering only total quantity not purity as important? Will you really have the onus on you to prove that you're not a dealer if you get caught with only an 8ball of speed or 7 or 8 pills or are the laws actually designed and enforced so thats only likely to happen if you also have $6000 cash, quality scales and 40 satties (lil ziploc bags) in the new beamer you drive despite being 'unemployed' for the last 3 years?

If the latter is the case, the legislation is there to give you a 'hamburger with the lot' - all possible charges. In reality, its down to the investigating member's discretion and that of the eventual police, or OPP, prosecutor.

In which way might it be possible to prove the drugs weren't to sell, e.g how do you prove you don't have extra money, seems there could only be a lack of evidence verifiable only if the cops investigated you. Surely this law can only approach reasonable, in a society that's meant to hold innocent until proven guillty, when the quantity makes 99% certain they were not for personal use rather than when it's an amount easily consumed in a night.

Complain to your state legislature, not us. If you reckon you can get through a trafficable or large commercial quantity in short order, good luck arguing it. There's a bloke before the courts in Vic atm who's arguing somewhere around half a kilo of methylamphet was personal use.

I remember hearing cops can now raid homes without a warrant signed by a judge/magistrate, they apparently needed this power as drug houses in Redfern would switch location at such a pace that search warrants couldn't be obtained quickly enough. Supposedly it wasn't to be used widely but they always say that before quietly expanding it later. What does this make the current situation regarding drug houseraids, have they already exceeded their initial purview and now preform many raids without warrants or do they still generally need one, going in without one perhaps needing to be well justified? Are the target occupants in a raid generally searched and if so is it a basic search or a full strip/grab your groin through your pants search?

The magical thing about legislative ammendments which expand powers is that once they're there, they can and will be utilised if they're remotely relevant and useful. If you're there during a warrant, expect to get strip searched.

 

[fortehlulz]

If search warrants are still relevant how long does it typically take to obtain one on a weekday/late weeknight/weekend? What if you exercise your right to ring a friend and explain what happened, is that likely to cause the cops to send a car to watch over your place, as i might expect that but i've known of people who managed to get their house clean not by having stuff disposed of stuff but simply relocated.

Its quite clear you're seeking advice on how SWIY should run their business, so I'm not answering that.

A group at an event are being watched over, the guy holding 150 pills and the guy taking 10 at a time off him to sell are in trouble and technically i think the girl holding and managing the satties (baggies) could be charged with aiding abetting right? In reality could they bothered with her or other girl holding the cash?

Traffick involves any degree of involvement in commercial movement of a drug, for profit or not. Both could be charged with traffick.

I've heard that phone taps in Sydney are only ever used on midlevel players and up, for example in the case of pills 500+ a week, which would seem to make sense given the time and hassle involved but does anyone know any actual police policy?

Again, this appears to be a question related to how SWIY should run their business.

Further than this is the fact that the system just isn't fucking fair at all. Ending up charged with supply is not necessarily just natural consequences from dangerous choices it could happen in all sorts of ways. *warning long personal rant* I know of a guy so messed on drugs he had to be taken from his car by cops and brought to my local police station, once he straightened up he was free to leave, wasn't charged with anything nor did they bother to search his car where they would have found a very large quantity of drugs. Two other occasions i heard about involving cars full of people, both times including dealers with reasonable amounts of drugs ready-for-sale on them, both times a situation encountered by cops so very very sketchy so as everyone was absolutely convinced the car and themselves would be searched. In each case it was impossible the cops didn't know what was going on, they acknowledged they did when briefly talking to them the second time, i can't honestly imagine they could possibly be unaware there were drugs in the car but still each time they were left alone, basically to continue on what they were doing, they just moved to a different spot.

I know girls who were caught, in the middle of McDonald's, chopping up a mix, by police there buying their lunch. They smiled and ignored them. Another girl has been repeatedly caught in possession of meth and smashed the pipe infront of them, no charges, no nothing. Conversely, I know another fellow who's been caught twice with a small quantity of cannabis; the first time, his 3 grams went into the senior connie's pocket and that was that. The second, he was caught smoking a joint; he was written up and received a formal caution. Paperwork is the police's mortal enemy.

The above all involved cops from the local area, now i have been living here smoking weed for 10 years, 9 years or so i have known whats going on with a great many of the local dealers and religously read the local crime report, no one has ever in that time been raided, or persued otherwise for less than about a kilo, 900 something grams is smallest bust i know of and most are multi-kilo. I honestly thought it was like an unoffical rule that dealing in no more than about a lb/week was 'legal', some who fell right into their lap did get busted but then at other times they seemed to go out of their way to turn a blind eye to drugs in the local area. That is until last week when i read 3 'drug dens' had been shutdown, the serious drugs oozing from these evil dens; one guy had a whole 2 ozs of pot, another just over an oz and a hectic 10 pills, the final guy had just under a 1/4lb. Maybe i shouldn't have bothered typing this no one else will understand but this shattered my idea of justice, i mean how much god damn time did they spend planning the raids, how many people did it require and most of all what the fuck are they doing running investigations into this bullshit, the 3 were in their 20s so i find it very unlikely they were corrupting the young primary kids or anything of any real concern. Small time speed (oz or 2)and pill dealers (60+) did occasionally suffer raids, but that was kind of ok because it was part of the rules, when you can get raided for oz of green and 10 pills then suddenly no ones safe, and maybe he was selling grams to some friends but fuck what a non-issue. Raiding and charging someone over such amounts seems unimaginable and actually quite cruel. Made me realise if your involved with drugs you're always, always taking a risk, you don't have to be a dealer to get done for supply or even raided and charged just fucking unlucky. Its chance keeping any number of people safe from real charges with the police just randomly deciding whether they have an unoffical amnesty towards something or a hugely serious problem requiring huge enforcement efforts.

Some people get done. Some don't. That's life mate.

 

[blondchic]

just a litle note on the topic that was merged with this ones (called could i have been arrested) IT IS ILLEGAL TO BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS IN PUBLIC, ITS THE SAME AS PUBLIC INTOXICATION. thats in the United States.

but it would have to be very obvious.

 

[tyrael]

just a litle note on the topic that was merged with this ones (called could i have been arrested) IT IS ILLEGAL TO BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS IN PUBLIC, ITS THE SAME AS PUBLIC INTOXICATION. thats in the United States.

but it would have to be very obvious.

Same as in Australia. However certain leniencies are granted. For example, the police would rather arrest/take off the streets someone who is being aggressive/loud/obnoxious (due to alcohol) then someone who is slightly stumbling. I would say the same as for pills - if you're in an excited state, smiling your ass off with puples the size of dinner plates, the police would (probably) walk straight passed.

I've found that 'letter of the law' is very different to what actually occurs on the street (or depending on the officer)

 

[filenet]

ive sort of raised this in general before but after recently browsing through a few aussie 'legal drug' websites some 'potential situations' popped into my head again.

what are your rights and what would be the best way for you to respond if you were in the following situation

you buy online a handful of legal pills, say hypnotics, a couple for you and the rest for your mates. you take them with you to the night out and at no stage have you shown any intention to pass them off as illicit substances. so you take the totally legal pills out of your pocket and hand them to your mates while receiving some cash back. your spotted by plain clothed and written up for supply of a prohibited substance.

do you go along with proceedings and deal with it later or stand your ground and argue the facts?

 

[fortehlulz]

do you go along with proceedings and deal with it later or stand your ground and argue the facts?

Exercise your right to silence and seek legal advice soon after. You can categorically fuck your credibility by telling the truth but omitting details which you later rely on, so the best thing you can do, is say and do nothing, and let it get worked out in court.

If that's seriously what happened, and your mates were under no misapprehension re what they were buying, and are prepared to make statements to that effect, problem solved. If you're coming up with an ingenious way of getting yourself out of a trafficking charge/profitting by flogging natural highs as genuine disco biccies, think very very carefully about what you're doing and if its worth the risks you will be taking.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ If you were selling what you knew to be legal highs as a genuine illicit product, could you still be charged with selling a controlled drug?

I think this has been discussed in here before, in regards to someone finding out that a pill they have been caught with was bunk or something.

 

[krankenhaus]

^ Similarly, if you do have 'legal pills', and it turns out they have something illegal in them, can you be prosecuted?

I would say that yes, you would be, but it defies reason. It would be (obvious outlandish scenario to illustrate ridiculousness) like buying a car which the salesperson had assured you there were no explosives in, and then as soon as you drive away with it the cops pull you over with a whole bunch of explosives, and then charge you for it. How the hell would you know, especially when assured it was ok? What if the supermarket cashier slipped a joint into your shopping bag, and then you were arrested for it?

Anyone able to comment on if you would actually be fucked in this scenario? I really suspect you would be, but there is nothing to suggest why.

Regarding: What if a cop sees you handing out legal pills. I think it would be best to excercise similar discretion to distributing these as one would with illegal drugs. Even if you do win a court case (with the possibility that you will get fucked), it is a lot of hassle and hardly worth it even if you are actually selling them as legal highs.

If you touting legal highs as real E, expect to have greater repurcussions than a court case.

 

[fortehlulz]

^ If you were selling what you knew to be legal highs as a genuine illicit product, could you still be charged with selling a controlled drug?

I think this has been discussed in here before, in regards to someone finding out that a pill they have been caught with was bunk or something.

Yep. While the caselaw on this one escapes me (and unless someone challenges me sufficiently to go and find it, I won't bother digging through paperwork), that's the case. If you are found exchanging cash for a bag of grass clippings mistakenly beleiving same to be cannabis, you can be pinged.

 

[blau1005]

fortehlulz, delete some messages so I can PM you, or turn on emails!

Sorry for the bump :D

 

[redskittle]

Are sniffer dogs used in SA? Its just I've never seen any outside any clubs or outside concert venues.

Also, (and this is just an out of opinion question) I know that sniffer dogs also find meat when you have it, but if SWIM had a burger in their pocket and some pills and the dog picked SWIM up, would you think they'd be disregarded as a false positive because of the burger?

 

[blau1005]

I've never seen them outside clubs, only outside festivals. Not to say they aren't used, of course.