Green Laser
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 116
Fuck me, it sounds like I'll have to sell more drugs just to be able to afford a lawyer to tell me what fucked up kind of situation I'm in... lol.
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
How to - Deal with LE.
- Thread starter fortehlulz
- Start date
So let me get this right, I'm walking outside a popular club in a district known for drug taking. A group of 4 cops are standing there, i walk past, they stop me, I stop.
Cop "We have recent problems with drugs in this region and this is random search, ok?"
so he/she's sneakily disguised it as a quesion.
I can say no and walk off? does walking off mean anything. How much of the police officers commands do I have to follow.
Ie must I stop, if he says stop?
Can i exit the conversion after I say no to the search and continue walking?
Do i have to wait for him to say, have a pleasent evening?
Verybuffed
Bluelighter
Wow. I just assumed it wouldn't be in a baggie. I never even thought of that.
fortehlulz
Bluelighter
You can say no and start walking. You would be well within your rights to do so. However, if they want to search you, you will be searched, regardless of how flimsy the pretext.
Verybuffed
Bluelighter
Is that because of the new anti-terrorism laws?
So gone are the days of politely saying "am I under arrest?" and if they say no you can bid them good day and walk away?
What if he calls me back? is that disrespecting an officers orders if i just keep walking, or is that just a USA thing i pick up from the movies.
flimsy the pretext.. sigh.. should i get out my phone recorder and record it if they start hasseling just like you suggested in the car situation?
fortehlulz
Bluelighter
Nothing to do with terrorism legislation.
The more you say, the more ammunition you give them to develop their 'reasonable' grounds to search you. You cannot hurt yourself by exercising your right to silence.
blah_blah1991
Bluelighter
Hello Guys
Quick question, today some lady came to our school and said if someone knows about a crime taking place they are abeting the crime and get charged for the same thing, they gave example of a fight at school and everyone watching on and everyone at the school who watched getting charged of assault, also if you are there when someone gets rolled etc you can be charged for the same thing.
Now i was wondering does the same apply to drugs, so if me or a mate are carrying drugs and we get done on possesion can my mate get done as well even if im the only one carrying drugs? Also if this is correct then can't someone buying drugs also be charged with supply of a prohibited substance because they knowingly took part in a crime?
Thanks for any info BTW i am in NSW.
Quick question, today some lady came to our school and said if someone knows about a crime taking place they are abeting the crime and get charged for the same thing, they gave example of a fight at school and everyone watching on and everyone at the school who watched getting charged of assault, also if you are there when someone gets rolled etc you can be charged for the same thing.
Now i was wondering does the same apply to drugs, so if me or a mate are carrying drugs and we get done on possesion can my mate get done as well even if im the only one carrying drugs? Also if this is correct then can't someone buying drugs also be charged with supply of a prohibited substance because they knowingly took part in a crime?
Thanks for any info BTW i am in NSW.
infectedmushroom
Bluelighter
My younger brother asked me this;
If you were a minor walking down the street with a bag on your back, with alcohol in it, with a group of other minors, and a police car and/or police persons happened to wander by, would they have the right to check in your bag?
He asks me because he said in many public venues on New Years Eve he observed many of his friends being bullied by police into letting them check their bags - when the person had done nothing wrong or shown no signs of suspicious, drunken behaviour. Do minors not have the same rights as adults in regards to saying - NO, this is my private property, I dont want you to look inside this bag as you have no evidence?
If you were a minor walking down the street with a bag on your back, with alcohol in it, with a group of other minors, and a police car and/or police persons happened to wander by, would they have the right to check in your bag?
He asks me because he said in many public venues on New Years Eve he observed many of his friends being bullied by police into letting them check their bags - when the person had done nothing wrong or shown no signs of suspicious, drunken behaviour. Do minors not have the same rights as adults in regards to saying - NO, this is my private property, I dont want you to look inside this bag as you have no evidence?
Mr Blonde
Bluelighter
That sounds like a load of crock to me. The only similar crime I've ever heard of is criminal indifference? Criminal neglect? Something like that? You know, what Jerry, Elaine, George and Kramer all got charged with in the last episode of Seinfeld?
I remember reading about some school fights that were filmed; I think maybe the people filming it may have been charged or faced some repurcussions, otherwise no one else who wasn't directly involved didn't get charged.
Anyway, as I'm sure fortehlulz will explain better then I can, unless you have drugs on your person (e.g. on your body, in your house, car, etc...) then you won't be charged.
Esotericism
Bluelighter
From experience where an associate was picked out of the crowd by sniffers at a certain Sydney station, being with someone getting busted will not result in you being charged(unless you have stuff on you to.)
Please note my answer applies for QLD, but i believe it is broadly similar Australia wide.
They are wrong on 2 points. Firstly you cannot be charged simply for witnessing, or knowing an offence has taken place. You can ONLY be charged where you are a willing participant, for instance, if you accompany an armed person into a bank where you know the intent is to commit an indictable offence, you are guilty of a crime, even though you yourself are not armed.
This is where they are wrong again, you cannot be charged with the same offence unless you commit the same offence! It is common sense. Following on from my above example, you could only be charge with armed robbery if you were also armed, however being unarmed and accompanying an armed person for the purposes of committing a crime you would also be guilty of a crime, but in QLD the charge would be armed robbery whilst in company.
There are rare instances where depending on the circumstances/your position you are legally required to inform the police of your suspicions of an offence taking place. Generally this is restricted to violence of a domestic nature, against children or in regards to escapees from custody.
I'm sure Fortehlulz can elaborate on NSW legislation.
My younger brother asked me this;
If you were a minor walking down the street with a bag on your back, with alcohol in it, with a group of other minors, and a police car and/or police persons happened to wander by, would they have the right to check in your bag?
He asks me because he said in many public venues on New Years Eve he observed many of his friends being bullied by police into letting them check their bags - when the person had done nothing wrong or shown no signs of suspicious, drunken behaviour. Do minors not have the same rights as adults in regards to saying - NO, this is my private property, I dont want you to look inside this bag as you have no evidence?
Children have exactly the same rights as adults, and in many cases their rights exceed the equivalent legistation relating to adults.
To be searched without consent, the police must be of the opinion that someone is committing/has committed or is concealing evidence of an offence. This amounts to reasonable suspicion. This could include visually identifying an offending article in the bag without it being open, a strong odour of alcohol or drugs, erratic behaviour and so on. Simply being on public property on NYE with a bag does not in itself amount to reasonable suspicion but police will use all kinds of dicey (and just plain false) pretexts enabling them to search without consent or warrant.
fortehlulz
Bluelighter
Sup dog. We heard you like.... (sorry, couldn't resist)
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULSHIT. You may have conspired to commit an offence if you chatted about doing it, whether or not you do it, but if I, for example, were liable to be charged for KNOWING about crimes... well... let's just say, I'd be liable for a whole lot.
Here's where it gets a little trickier. Doctrine of common purpose puts you in the frame for the principal offence (there's no aid and abet in Victoria) if you went out planning to roll someone and you don't do anything.
In McAuliffe v The Queen 69 ALJR 621 it was held that "each of the parties to an arrangement or understanding is guilty of any crime falling within the scope of the common purpose which is committed in carrying out that purpose"
That quote comes courtesy of wikipedia as its cold and I'm slack. If that's not sufficient, let me know and I'll go digging through the other case law which I have on common purpose somewhere. Suffice to say, you don't even need to be there at the time an offence is committed to be liable. People have been charged with armed robbery when they were sitting in their housing comission flat while the deed was done on the other side of down with firearms they provided.
Possess is possess is possess. No volitional component. The answer to your question: no.
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fortehlulz
Bluelighter
Three magic words which have stopped many a smart arse young connie in his tracks; "On what grounds?". Last I checked, the search/entry and even specific 'power to demand name' issues covered by most state's licensing acts cover licensed premises, not teens on the street.
tyrael
Bluelighter
So, if I knew a person has committed (or intends to commit) a crime, I am not legally obliged to reveal this to the police? What if I am specifically asked by a police officer about said crime? Eg, "Does your friend have or ingested drugs?". Or it is specific to the circumstance as fishman00 said - domestic crimes, violence against children, etc.?
fortehlulz
Bluelighter
Refer to the caution buddy. 'You are not obliged to say or do anything'
Smoifer
Bluelighter
Had a bit of a search but guess my wording was wrong and am a tad lazy.
But what I'm after is at what weights, in Victoria, you'll be facing trafficking charges rather than simple possession for being caught with MDMA powder/crystals, ecstasy pills, speed, cocaine & marijuana. Or even just direction to a URL with that kind of info. Also are the substances that police seize tested, if so are you charged on the total weight or just the weight of the active ingredients? IE; if you have 200mg pills that consist of 100mg MDMA, 50mg Caffeine & 50mg binders, are you charged for the 200mg pills or just the 100mg of MDMA in them? Same with the speed & MD powder/crystal, weight inclusive of cutters etc or just the actives?
I am aware that baggies, scales etc. can attract a trafficking or intent to charge.
Also at what amount of marijuana would you be looking at jail time? For a person with maybe two or three other minor drug related charges/cautions?
Any information at all would be awesome. Cheers.
But what I'm after is at what weights, in Victoria, you'll be facing trafficking charges rather than simple possession for being caught with MDMA powder/crystals, ecstasy pills, speed, cocaine & marijuana. Or even just direction to a URL with that kind of info. Also are the substances that police seize tested, if so are you charged on the total weight or just the weight of the active ingredients? IE; if you have 200mg pills that consist of 100mg MDMA, 50mg Caffeine & 50mg binders, are you charged for the 200mg pills or just the 100mg of MDMA in them? Same with the speed & MD powder/crystal, weight inclusive of cutters etc or just the actives?
I am aware that baggies, scales etc. can attract a trafficking or intent to charge.
Also at what amount of marijuana would you be looking at jail time? For a person with maybe two or three other minor drug related charges/cautions?
Any information at all would be awesome. Cheers.
Smoifer
Bluelighter
And yes before anyone chimes in, I know any possession can mean a years jail time, I mean in a more realistic sense at when you swap out fines, probation, suspended sentences for actual jail time.
And the 50g caution thing doesn't apply as it's already been used up.
And the 50g caution thing doesn't apply as it's already been used up.
