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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Long Term Side-effects

I've never had ketamine bladder 'problems' per say, nor have I done the stuff in a while, but I remember when I did larger, almost K-hole level doses it felt as if my digestion system kind of shut down and it would take a while for my stomach contents to digest, which often gave me different levels of nausea.
 
Problems come from the metabolite, norketamine, which irritates the wall of the bladder & occasionaly can cause a spasm of the gall bladder. I know someone with a really large ket intake (several grams a day, most days), which results in there being blood in his urine, yet despite the hospital and a few friends telling him it's def due to ket, he's still continuing to use at a frankly idiotic level...
 
phase_dancer said:
Interesting, thanks for the link Baberie.

A pubmed search brought up these and a couple of others with no abstract.

Hong Kong Med J. 2007 Aug;13(4):311-3. Epub 2007 Jun 21.Click here to read Links
'Street ketamine'-associated bladder dysfunction: a report of ten cases.
Chu PS, Kwok SC, Lam KM, Chu TY, Chan SW, Man CW, Ma WK, Chui KL, Yiu MK, Chan YC, Tse ML, Lau FL.

Department of Surgery, Tuen Mun Hospital, Hong Kong. [email protected]

Ten young ketamine abusers presented with lower urinary tract symptoms to two regional hospitals in Hong Kong. Investigations demonstrated contracted bladders and other urinary tract abnormalities. These types of findings have never been reported before in ketamine abusers. The possible aetiology is also discussed
Click to expand...

BJU Int. 2008 Dec;102(11):1616-22. Epub 2008 Aug 1.Click here to read Links

Comment in:
BJU Int. 2008 Nov;102(9):1178-9; author reply 1179.

The destruction of the lower urinary tract by ketamine abuse: a new syndrome?
Chu PS, Ma WK, Wong SC, Chu RW, Cheng CH, Wong S, Tse JM, Lau FL, Yiu MK, Man CW.

Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, Tuen Mun Hospital, Hong Kong, China. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To report the clinical spectrum seen in young abusers of street-ketamine (regular recreational abusers of street-ketamine, for its hallucinogenic effects) in Hong Kong, presenting with significant lower urinary tract symptoms (LUTS) but with no evidence of bacterial infection. PATIENTS AND METHODS: We retrospectively analysed the clinical presentations, pelvic pain and urgency/frequency scores, video-urodynamic studies, cystoscopy findings, histological features of bladder biopsies and radiological findings of 59 ketamine abusers who were referred to the urology units of Princess Margaret and Tuen Mun Hospital, Hong Kong, from March 2000 to December 2007. RESULTS: Of the 59 patients, all had moderate to severe LUTS, i.e. frequency, urgency, dysuria, urge incontinence and occasionally painful haematuria. Forty-two (71% ) patients had a cystoscopy that showed various degrees of epithelial inflammation similar to that seen in chronic interstitial cystitis. All of 12 available bladder biopsies had histological features resembling those of interstitial cystitis. Urodynamically, either detrusor overactivity or decreased bladder compliance with or without vesico-ureteric reflux was detected to some degree in all of 47 patients. Thirty patients (51% ) had unilateral or bilateral hydronephrosis on renal ultrasonography, and four (7% ) showed features suggestive of papillary necrosis on radiological imaging. Eight patients had a raised serum creatinine level. CONCLUSION: A syndrome of cystitis and contracted bladder can be associated with street-ketamine abuse. Secondary renal damage can occur in severe cases which might be irreversible, rendering patients dependent on dialysis. The present data do not establish the precise cause nor the incidence. Street-ketamine abuse is not only a drug problem, but might be associated with a serious urological condition causing a significant burden to healthcare resources.
Click to expand...

Years ago I met a bunch of doctors who all claimed ketamine was the safest of recreational drugs. One was a Urologist!
Click to expand...

From here
 
fastandbulbous said:
Problems come from the metabolite, norketamine, which irritates the wall of the bladder & occasionaly can cause a spasm of the gall bladder. I know someone with a really large ket intake (several grams a day, most days), which results in there being blood in his urine, yet despite the hospital and a few friends telling him it's def due to ket, he's still continuing to use at a frankly idiotic level...
Click to expand...

Wha, doesn't norketamine happen as a result of ingestion more? I can't say I know about ket's metabolic pathway through any administration route though, and I have very little reason to doubt your knowledge. But I have become interested in just what happens to the stuff after it's consumed. I imagine a large amount of it is swallowed in the postnasal drip, and I have known people to develops stomach issues that I'm certain were due to acidosis from the HCl base.
 
My friend gets bladder troubles from semi-regular K use. I have also experienced biliary colic following a couple of days of heavy ketamine use (and I don't have a gall bladder).
 
I believe ketamine definitely has an effect on the urinary system. I've had two or three UTI/bladder/kidney infection. Don't really know which ones they were, but they were all very painful. Blood, and strands of protein were visible in the urine.

This was when I was using 2-4g+ a day for roughly 4 months. Now I'm down to maybe half a gram a day :)

I actually woke up this morning and felt a weird sensation like I have before while pissing. I guess we'll find out.

I say don't do a bunch of k everyday, my advice, but I'm a hypocrite.
 
ketamine cramps-please read

Hello chaps, I am posting a warning here to all ketamine users, I don't want to sound meladamatic, but after what I have just experienced, I will NEVER do ket again. I was at Glastonbury a few weeks ago and had 5 or 6 days of intermittent cramps in my stomach, every 6 hours or so, they slowly got worse, then eventually got better and stopped altogether att he end of the festival; I had visited the medical tent twice as It got so bad, and the guy injected me with some pain relief or other.

This first bout of cramps was after a particularly excessive couple of weeks of ketamine use (3-4 grams a day), but I still couldn't be sure it was the k doing it to me, but it did seem to stop as I cut down my ket use dramatically. Since the festival, after being really good and not doing it for 5 days a time or whatever, i have slowly got back to my old ways, but worse - 5-6 grams a day, until yesterday when i must have had 6 or so grams, staying up all night. At about 9 this morningf I felt that awful feeling I get when a cramp is beginning, and after an hour of it getting worse and worse, I had to phone 999 (I was crying on the phone to them, i'm 25!). By the time they had got here, the cold sweats and convultions had eased a little, but they took me to hospital anyway, and let me go when the pain had gone.

I fell asleep back at home, and woke up at about 5 ish today, with that feeling again. I went straight to the shop to get some codeine and some nurofen and had a few. It seemed to help, then all of a sudden at about half 6, I experienced what I can only describe as the worse pain of my life, I was so desperate, I did'nt care how it would end, as long as it would, it evetually culminated in me crying and sweating ad nearly fainting, and eventually vomiting god kows what up, all yesterday's food I guess, and then the pain quickly subsided. I feel almost better now.

I can't believe how bad that was, I am thouroughly addicted to ket, but I know I will ever do it again, i have 12 grams in the drawer beside me, but it will stay there *snip*. I was going to go and meet this girl tonight, but i know that in a few hours i will have another attack, hopefully they will stop within a few days.

I am not saying that this WILL happen to you, but please, don't risk it. I wouldn't wish what just happened to me upon anybody. If you are going to take ketamine, cut it in the bud before your habit gets too bad. I can't suggest any relief from cramps if you do have any, but as good as k is, it doesn't seem worth it for such pain.

For me, cramps last no more than 2 hours.

Becareful guys

Peace
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Was there constipation as well? Because I've gotten that easily from using a lot of S-ketamine recently, though it feels like R-ketamine doesn't give me half as much discomfort...

Indigestion or not having food in your bowels can worsen this stuff much more, or so I've learned... ketamine seems to disrupt something in the GI, so keep eating enough!
 
Was the constipation related to dehydration perhaps, Solipsys? I get stupidly dehydrated on ket binges and get a lot of muscular aches and cramps which I presume come from this. I also get some urninary tract pain on heavier binges - less heavy than 3-4g a day though - that's more akin to addiction levels of use than binging.

The subjective evidence of the damage heavy abuse of ketamine does to the kidneys/bladder seems to be building by the day. Doesn't seem to cause problems for everybody who uses to such an extent but enough to be a worry. Well worth taking heed of others' experience and trying to keep ket binges to a minimum :\

Sorry to hear of your painful situation, Dental. Hope you're feeling better soonest and manage to stick to your plan of avoiding ket. When things get that bad I think it's very important to listen to what your body is telling you and leave well clear <3

Also, welcome to BL and PD :)
 
It was probably not a dehydration issue as much as it was a food / nutrition thing. Polymer fibers did lend a helping hand but still it seemed to be exacerbated by the ketamine, particularly the S isomer at the time.
 
Dehydration will not help the situation though as not getting eniough water will result in smaller volumes of urine being produced, which means that the norketamine excreted will be in a higher concentration in the bladder, which will increase the degree of irritation of the bladder wall. Drinking plenty of water will a) ensure the norketamine solution in the bladder will be less concentrated, thus rteducung degree of irritation & b) will mean that the norketamine will spend less time in the bladder due to the increased frequency of passing urine.

Mind you, if you're at the stage of getting excruciating lower abdominal pain (believe me, the pain is of an intensity that cannot be accurately conveyed with words alone) on a regular basis, then I think a sweeping generalization is acceptable in saying "stop using the bloody stuff now". Not heeding such warnings can lead to things like long term catheterization & even requiring surgery on the bladder (due to the extensive formation of scar tissue on the bladder wall

The above might be of some help to those experiencing pain from irritation of the bladder wall, although the most helpful action would be to stop using for at least a couple of weeks or longer...
 
does anyone have pain in the nuts when this happens? a couple weeks back i had an hour of extreme lower back pain and my nuts felt like they were being kicked constantly. I hadnt been doing any K that day, but I did do e and g.....

it went away and hasnt come back....just wondering if anyone had this from their K pains?
 
cramps

My cramps have lessened in severity since yesterday... hopefully they will go away soon, trying anything I can. I think drinking lots of fluids helps. But I this on another forum ;), it looks like sounds advice, hope it does some good to someone!

Originally posted by Dr. McKay
This is for Ashley. Who died in India recently.

Copy this page and distribute freely as this info has a habit of being hidden by search engines.

I shall be brief this time but if you seriously wish to beat these pains, then here is the info.

I first took K in 1991 and have -obviously- spent spells experiencing varied effects upon my physical and mental health.
As well as having some of the BEST times of my life, I have many times experienced pure agony in the form of cramps originating in the gall bladder and occasionally stomach. I've even witnessed all over torso pains as the situation has become chronic, which as we know can lead to death.

I'd like to add that I have not suffered these pains for over two years now and have also said goodbye to my persistent habit due to the knowledge below.

For some time, it seemed nobody was aware what was triggering these agonising pains, but now we know that the gall bladder (bottom right side of rib cage) and chronic torso pains arrive when the body blood circulation flow drops below a critical point.
There are different factors which affect the blood flow.

1. lack of oxygen (or fresh air) so, NO FUCKIN SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!.
2. temperature (keep the body WARM).
3. impurities such as sugars, salt and dehydrating substances such as K (particularly dehydrated crystal).
4. lack of any kind of degreasing agent in the body (lemon juice, apple vinegar etc).
5. do NOT eat dry biscuits with gall bladder cramps.

An excellent remedy if the pains have already started is a simple hot lemon, ginger and water drink. The more lemon the greater the effect. Obviously, the person also needs to be kept as warm as, and all windows must be open and smokers banned from the area! No air, no cure!!!!!!! The idea is to stimulate the body blood circulation, so even a warm bath will help.


On the other hand, Stomach centred K pains occur when ingested K lands on pre-existing stomach ulcers (I have taken K all day, every day, for man, many, months at a time without ulcers forming) which could have been caused by over indulgence in Cocaine, speed, cigarettes, alcohol, spicy food or perhaps just stress.
An excellent ulcer cure is Aloe Vera juice, otherwise live yoghurt can be used to soothe the pain. Put plainly, if you remove the ulcers you will cease to experience these agonising cramps.
I'm sure some greedy Doctor will sell you as many creams and pills if you are stupid enough to pay for but if you have read this properly, then you see you don't need them.

Lastly, the best anti-cramp solution is plenty of exercise (without smoking).

Good luck......

More about bladder and kidney issues when i have the time.
 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=455379

All, have a read through the above thread about long term Ket usage.

It seems likely that the guy in question was probably doing obscene amounts of K but the poor bastard seems to have suffered some pretty nasty long term damage and is going to have to have his bladder removed..

Done a bit of other reading about it too and some long term users have scarred their bladder so badly that they have to take a piss every 15 minutes.

Like anything else really, sounds like you will be truely fucked if you really abuse K.
 
can any of this shit occur with using ketamine once or twice nasally around 75 mg?
 
I have problems with cramps but i dont think its ketamine related as i have had them for a while and my ketamine use is very limited as i dont mess with it much.
 
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