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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Long Term Side-effects

^Welcome back to the consensus reality ;)
 
fastandbulbous said:
PS 15g in one weekend is in the realms of silly dosing & I doubt many here would be doing that much (I can be an utter pig, but the most I've ever IMed in a weekend is 3g)
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Silly, yes, but if someone's dealing ket, it's not a great deal.

Most of the ket out there is powder form, and as a result, the vast majority of it is snorted.

I was always under the impression, as someone else has said that it was to do with the drip - ketamine staying in the stomach and causing ulcers and gall bladder problems, however if the cramps are also present with IM use, I'm a little confused.

I've used a fair amount of ket, and I know people that are habitually using upwards of 3g a day, and whilst they suffer from cramps, I am fortunate enough to have never been cursed with them.

I always spit the drip - it's just something I was told to do the first time, and it stuck. I see no harm in it, and it's thus far worked for me. I'd be interested to see if anyone else that uses a lot of ketamine and spits the drip has the cramp problems.
 
^ It's to do with the metabolite, norketamine & has nothing to do with the drip. Some just seem more susceptable than others to the unpleasant effects
 
Around the same time I starting taking ketamine (not a tonne either) I started to notice a sharp pain in my gall bladder area (although on the left side). I almost felt like a balloon in there ready to pop.

The pain seemed to come and go for quite a while and I went to the doctor and had an ultrasound. Nothing was found. Needless to say this pain still comes and goes to this day (almost a year later, no k for 9 months).

I still have no idea what caused it, but for some reason I'm suspecting celiac disease as it seems to match my symptoms well and as I don't eat meat or dairy my diet contains a decent amount of gluten...
 
This sounds like some scary, scary shit...and I wonder if it is indicative of the ugly toxicological profile of ketamine. Clearly any drug that causes damage to the internal organs is one to be avoided like the plague. However, many of the doses described here are truly obscene: 2.5 to 15 grams in the course of a 48 hour period!? I wonder if this kind of toxicity would present in someone using, say, 250mg as a one-off dose (or maybe 500mg as a one-off dose if used orally)?
 
^ Nah, it's virtually unknown when used at medical doses. As you said, it's the price to pay for using obscene amounts - which is common to a lot of drugs of abuse (eg kidney problems from way excessive amphetamin/methamphetamine, possible life threatening constipation from massively over the top opiate dosing - you get the picture?)

I speak from the position of someone who has occasionally ventured into the arena of the obscene when it comes to ket
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89tom89
Yes, I have experienced this but only through heavy use. For example, snorting say 15g over a festival weekend where i am not drinking enough water or eating enough food. To me this is the k re-crystalising in my stomach and bladder (pissing ketamine jelly is my proof of this) because there is nothing to dilute it. The end result is pains and cramps in the stomach and bladder.



That sounds pretty horrible - is it horrible enough to stop using it ?

I reckon I would stop.
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Yes it is horrible, but unfortunately it isn't horrible enough for me to stop using it. Also it was only the once that i have used this much in a weekend although i am still a heavy user and i wish i wasn't. As i said earlier, i feel that this mainly results from lack of food and water as k is a salt and as we all know, salt recrystallizes when the fluid that it has been dissolved in evaporates.

Also i am sure that you reckon that you would stop, but if you got to the point that you could sniff that ammount in a weekend then you may find it difficult to stop. I'd also like to point out that although I have been using K regularly for the past 1 1/2 years as well a other drugs for longer, it hasn't completely taken over my life. This year I finished college (UK) with an A,B and a C at A-level standard. I also play football for a team every monday competing against no drug users. I have found that the maind damage that it has done to me is mental through knowing that i have a drug habit.
 
Dunno, skimmed it (as I do with everything longer than a short paragraph) probably definitely a load of shite.

If you're getting nasty physical side effects from ketamine you're probably doing too much.
 
Yeah, I have had my gall bladder removed for the reasons FnB stated (well due to gallstones and an infected/distended gallbladder). A true cholesystitis attack is so painful and overwhelming it is inexplicable, something you can only know if you experience.

I can't remember whether I experimented with K before I had my gallbladder removed, but I have certainly noticed bile-duct spasms since, after heavy binges on K. I do still get bile-duct spasms rarely anyhow, which is apparently normal after cholesystectomy. They are still very painful, about half as painful as gallstone attacks (which are up there with heart attacks and natural childbirth, and can last from minutes to hours). It is hard to guess, but I would say that yes your binges on K are likely causing biliary spasm or biliary colic. Definitely recognising from how Jamshyd described his pain and the info, it does emanate from the liver region, and spreads across the gut, and if severe enough - up the spine and the chest and into the shoulders.

Incidentally, this also seems to happen upon benzodiazepine brickwall withdrawal as well.

However, you said the pain has lasted for days, and biliary colic attacks are unlikely to last for days. It does also sound indicative of something else like a stomach ulcer or hiatus hernia, which can be quite painful according to friends. Binging on drugs and combining that with not eating properly can lead to all sorts of gastric troubles ranging from constipation to diahorea, ulcers and hernias. If it lasts any longer go to a doc to be certain.
 
To OP, don't know why your stomach is hurting. Best advice, stop using for a few days/weeks and begin again. Maybe it's potentiating an underlying problem? It's probably nothing, just something to think about. BTW, nice to see another NBA'er on these message boards. Piston fan, myself.
 
Ketamine SERIOUS Side FX

I just got out of a detox center. In this center, after explaining to one of the nurses about my chronic Ketamine consumtion, she told me about her friend.

Her friend had been on K heavily for 5 years. 3 months after she got clean, she lots total control of her bladder and bowels! She also had severe pain in her lower back and couldn't stand up or even sit upright.

She also now has a blood disorder, and frequently suffers from extreme health issues that go away fairly fast. So she's OK, but has definitely sustained damages.

I looked up about it on the net and found this

Destruction of lower urinary tract by ketamine abuse: a new syndrome?

Tuesday, 19 August 2008 - Chu et al. (2008) reported the clinical spectrum seen in young abusers of street-ketamine (regular recreational abusers of street-ketamine, for its hallucinogenic effects) in Hong Kong, presenting with significant lower urinary tract symptoms (LUTS) but with no evidence of bacterial infection.

The authors retrospectively analysed the clinical presentations, pelvic pain and urgency/frequency scores, video-urodynamic studies, cystoscopy findings, histological features of bladder biopsies and radiological findings of 59 ketamine abusers who were referred to the urology units of Princess Margaret and Tuen Mun Hospital, Hong Kong, from March 2000 to December 2007.

Of the 59 patients, all had moderate to severe LUTS, i.e. frequency, urgency, dysuria, urge incontinence and occasionally painful haematuria. Forty-two (71%) patients had a cystoscopy that showed various degrees of epithelial inflammation similar to that seen in chronic interstitial cystitis. All of 12 available bladder biopsies had histological features resembling those of interstitial cystitis. Urodynamically, either detrusor overactivity or decreased bladder compliance with or without vesico-ureteric reflux was detected to some degree in all of 47 patients. Thirty patients (51%) had unilateral or bilateral hydronephrosis on renal ultrasonography, and four (7%) showed features suggestive of papillary necrosis on radiological imaging. Eight patients had a raised serum creatinine level.

In conclusion, a syndrome of cystitis and contracted bladder can be associated with street-ketamine abuse. Secondary renal damage can occur in severe cases which might be irreversible, rendering patients dependent on dialysis. The present data do not establish the precise cause nor the incidence. Street-ketamine abuse is not only a drug problem, but might be associated with a serious urological condition causing a significant burden to healthcare resources.

Chu, P. S., Ma, W. K., Wong, S. C., Chu, R. W., Cheng, C. H., Wong, S., Tse, J. M., Lau, F. L., Yiu, M. K., & Man, C. W. (2008). The destruction of the lower urinary tract by ketamine abuse: a new syndrome? BJU Int, doi:10.1111/j.1464-410X.2008.07920.x.

Authors: Chu et al.
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I have been using pretty heavily for about three years, and am praying for this not to happen to me!

Just a warning for you heavy K users, it might not be all that good of a thing!
 
I was skeptical about this at first, but now it appears that it's a bona fide syndrome and a good reason to consume this drug in moderation.

(welcome back, S_S)
 
fuck. I'm not consuming it at all. if I do it will be like 1 or 2 smaaaaal bumps per month. fuck.

(ps. thanks. couldnt hack not smoking or exercising or doing anything all day!)
 
I find this interesting as I myself am a heavy user of ketamine.
Many thanks to silentscience for posting this.
 
Yup I've heard anecdotally that this has happened to people who use heavily over a prolonged period.

Hope you find it easy to stick to your one or two bumps a month SS, good luck :)
 
yeah after hearing horror stories from people down south (UK) about heavy K users I make it a special treat.. best to use as often as acid or something, unless you are one of those people who can handle LSD every week! pissing through a catheter for the rest of ya puff is not worth the experience, and besides I find ketamine stops doing much if I use often, just makes me feel stupid.. tis a great drug through, especially on E
 
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