Masculinity and Psychonautics?

[dread]

Went out and got myself a gun.

So basically acid taught you nothing. Or, I should say, you refused to learn anything from it.

 

[artic]

^ I just learned something different from what you learned. I can't believe that you would say I learned nothing, or refused to learn, from an experience that it is impossible NOT to learn from. Have you ever taken LSD? Did you even read my whole post before responding to a single part of it?

 

[ResinTeeth]

^ I just learned something different from what you learned.

You have learned, you have merely learned a different way of living. One not overshadowed by the goal of reducing the ego and living in a commune with a bunch of people who happen to be half-naked and speaking wildly about peace and mother nature. The ego is a part of us and it isn't going anywhere. Instead of seeking to reduce or eliminate the ego we need to focus on merely re-directing it and it's purpose. Our ego is our engine.

 

[artic]

Exactly. In a way, LSD is a fuel for rebellious thought. It encouraged a generation who was raised by a very patriotic and military oriented society to seek peace and oneness. LSD has shown me that my parents, and their hippie ideals, are misguided, just as it showed my parents that blind patriotism in a time of war is misguided.

Are men more prone to rebellion against their parents ideals than women? I honestly don't know. I think that men may act on their rebellious thoughts more openly. Maybe this could account for men being more open about their psychedelic use, if not more actual use than women.

 

[ControlDenied]

lol...so what unites you guys is that you are some of the rare acidheads who hate hippies and think "the ego" is great - and that it has a lot to do with guns & violence. loLlerZ

 

[artic]

I think owning and knowing how to clean and operate a firearm is part of being a responsible free thinking individual. I don't have much, but I protect what I have, and I protect my family, because you can't count on anyone else to do it for you. Guns don't scare me nearly as much as people do.

As far as hippies, I don't hate them. I view them as misguided children, reveling in their own filth saying that they have found eden. It isn't that they are wrong. The lifestyle that they represent is not an unpleasant one. I think it is a step back for society though. The point is to evolve, not de-evolve. We need to encourage free discussion and thought, not simply discussion and thought that we agree with. Get with the program.

 

[ResinTeeth]

lol...so what unites you guys is that you are some of the rare acidheads who hate hippies and think "the ego" is great - and that it has a lot to do with guns & violence. loLlerZ

You are completely missing the point and I doubt me typing anything more will do anything to help you understand. Firearms are neutral, I don't care one way or the other if you own one. However I think it's absurd that people would say "guns are bad" and proceed to want to see the elimination of all firearms across the board. Guns, drugs, cars and many other things are all on the same level in that you have people who will possess and use them responsibly and you will have people who will be douchebags and fuck it up for everyone else. I don't hate hippies I just find that they are more idealistic rather than realistic.

 

[artic]

I wouldn't suggest that anyone own a gun if they don't feel they are responsible enough to handle it, just as I wouldn't suggest that someone take LSD if they don't they are responsible enough. I don't think that prohibition is the answer to any of the problems that plague our great nation. The answer is education on responsibility and safe usage. You should provide people with the tools to make their own choices, rather than impose restrictions based on a personal rationalization.

 

[jozza]

I think owning and knowing how to clean and operate a firearm is part of being a responsible free thinking individual. I don't have much, but I protect what I have, and I protect my family, because you can't count on anyone else to do it for you. Guns don't scare me nearly as much as people do.

As far as hippies, I don't hate them. I view them as misguided children, reveling in their own filth saying that they have found eden. It isn't that they are wrong. The lifestyle that they represent is not an unpleasant one. I think it is a step back for society though. The point is to evolve, not de-evolve. We need to encourage free discussion and thought, not simply discussion and thought that we agree with. Get with the program.

The problem is the term "hippie" is applied so loosely these days - the range of people it be applied to is ridiculous.

Some of my favourite people might be labelled by the average Australian as hippies. But they're just a bit different from the mainstream, perhaps listen to different music, have different ideas about life and dress a little differently.

They're really genuine, warm, confident people who are very social, enjoy having friends round for gatherings, playing music, festivals, camping in beautiful natural places etc. They still go on with every day life, study at university and have good jobs. The fact that they hate it when people label them hippies shows how they are just genuinely like that, that's the way they were raised. I really like these kinds of people

Not so much the more obvious "hippies" who are "doing it" deliberately- people who go through a conscious image change half way through high school and get dread locks, wear wacky clothes, listen to music that fits in with that image... then a few years down the track just go back to how they were... now that's just a bag of wank.

Wow, tangent. Sorry guys

 

[the_ketaman]

Wow now that I think of it I only know one girl personally who has done acid and does so on a regular basis, I know a few interested in trying it but these days I try to stay away from girls who take drugs because from what ive seen with my own two eyes drugs and most women dont mix.

I might ask my friend to post in here as shes a BL'er.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

artic, reading your posts has reminded me that I've also gotten very much in touch with my masculine side since trying LSD. It's funny I've never connected the change in me to drug use.
I would definitely agree (as I might not have before) that standing up for oneself and one's principles is a necessary life skill. I also have a much deeper appreciation for practicality, and think it's perfectly normal, awesome even, to think about sex and eating and drug taking a lot.

But my experience was different than yours, in that I don't think it pushed me toward being a creator, conduit, or seeker of discord and conflict. It didn't push me to push people. I still don't think nurturing a healthy male ego is healthy at all, and is not the key to lasting happiness. I've found smarts, persuasion, and persistence to be more effective at getting everything I could possibly need, than shows of dominance.

One time at a rave on LSD, I transformed myself into the suavest player on the floor, first in my mind, then... kind of actually! It was an absolutely transformative and cleansing experience for me, and pleasurable as all hell, to play this role that I had never let myself play before. But I went home alone to my fiancee, integrated the experience and bid goodbye to the final traces of residual adolescent sexual frustration, and have been faithful ever since. It's not an experience I'd repeat, but I don't regret it one bit.

I'm intrigued by your posts, because like you, I was raised by two very active and vocal peace activists. They weren't pushovers by a long shot, and for the most part they blended in with 'polite society' -- they really worked WITHIN THE SYSTEM to make it more just and equitable and peace friendly. Sure they were a bit eccentric, and it showed in their aesthetic tastes. But who isn't a bit weird in some way? I'm a progressivist like them because I've seen it work. I'm a lot more realistic now. But I'm also still very idealistic. And somehow I don't see these as incompatible.

I certainly don't mean you any disrespect, and I'm not sure the other dudes who just wrote to you, deep down at least, do either. It's just that to some people, myself included, the notion of psychedelics influencing someone to become a libertarian is kind of mind blowing.

But then again, 'psychedelic' means 'soul showing' in Greek. These drugs hold a mirror up to you, in a way. Everyone is going to see something different, and when you pick up that mirror, you'd better be ready to accept what you see. The point is, psychedelics don't change people, they just show them what's already there, that they might not have been aware of.

Talking about mirrors brings me back to the original topic. A lot fewer women have a purely good relationship with their mirror than men...

 

[ControlDenied]

reminds me of a dude i know whose parents are massive hippies - and he chose the personality "psychotic ritalin-addicted redneck ". makes sense in the usual twisted way that reality goes.

i was being kind of a shit-disturber earlier, i personally like guns as well. i see having a violent/greedy side as pretty natural... men seem to have it more than women though... which is why they gorge on drugs which make them go temporarily insane... can never get enough of anything!

i was poking fun because of all these categories - hippy vs. hunter s. thompson, i mean i know its "real" but it gets kind of old

 

[artic]

Doors,

Thanks a lot. You had a lot of interesting stuff to say. I guess I'd say my experience has really been similar to yours, but I'd have to disagree with you on one point. It isn't that LSD made me into a Libertarian, its that after consuming LSD over a length of time I came to see all politics as a selfish power struggle. I think that it doesn't really matter who is in charge because we are still all enslaved in our current paradigm. LSD showed me that the true path to freedom is the break out of the belief structures that we have been raised to uphold since conseption. My motivation for purchasing a firearm was not to seek discord or conflict, but to protect myself from it. It exists without me, but I don't think I can rely on a morally bankrupt government to protect me, my property, and my rights from the very chaos that it relies on to propogate fear and control the masses. I am not a Libertarian, and I am not political. I am just afraid of what will happen when people decide that someone else knows what's best for them.

 

[swilow]

But my experience was different than yours, in that I don't think it pushed me toward being a creator, conduit, or seeker of discord and conflict. It didn't push me to push people. I still don't think nurturing a healthy male ego is healthy at all, and is not the key to lasting happiness. I've found smarts, persuasion, and persistence to be more effective at getting everything I could possibly need, than shows of dominance.

Your entire post was very interesting MDAO- but I specifically wanted to highlight one point. You've actually got me thinking; in many ways, I feel I've possibly become more masculine as well as more feminine (leading me to think the true term I'm grasping for is "human")- for example, I used to be rather freaked out by sex and the like, whereas nowadays I believe most forms of sexuality to be healthy and "good" to express. Thats, in turn, lead me to some silly and rather difficult situations, wherein my blase attitude was taken badly and to the heart. In a sense, I have thought that sex is really just another good pleasure-button that can be pressed at anytime, and one needn't be ashamed. Even, perhaps, if other people get hurt I will explain that more if neccesary....But in general, I've become less physical- less prone to choose to push as you say. More sexually "agressive" perhaps- not that I have become some sex-crazed-demonhippy- but more that, if I'd like sex with someone, I would probably be much more apt to pursuse it then in my pre psychedelic years.

But the section I bolded- regarding your use of those words all in the same context- do you see such as creativity as on par with discord? For me, my own thoughts have been more and more cast to the notion of agitating for simply that reason. I've gotten blunter, and more inclined to challenge peples notions- in a sense, my ego has gotten stronger in the fact that I am certain about some things now, more so then ever. I sometimes feel that I would rather sow discord then peace, simply because our current ideas of peace are "the absence of war" which is no peace at all. If the truth be told, I would rather break something then make something- that said, breaking makes things so the two are twixt- because the power of passion and fury appeal more to me then passivity and acceptance- even though I heartily understand that acceptance is The Key.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

arctic, I stand corrected. I jumped to the conclusion you were a Libertarian -- you actually said nothing of the sort.

I'm with you to a point on politics, beliefs, and institutions in general. I believe human institutions seldom, if ever, deserve blind loyalty from their members. People give institutions blind loyalty because to do so is easy, and requires little effort. Plus, then you've got Somebody Else to blame when things don't go your way -- also a behavior indicative of laziness. But at the same time, our ability to form and uphold tight groups (other than biological families) is a truly awesome aspect of being a human being, and seeing how much we've been able to accomplish doing this, I'd hate to see this ability go to waste. I think the key is to CARE about the other PEOPLE in whatever institution you join, more than the abstract notion of the institution itself, but at the same time to be LOYAL to the founding PRINCIPLES, rather than the people. I consider myself a democrat, because I care about our citizenry, but if the democratic party started doing things that very much went against its stated core principles, I'll not follow this party off a cliff.

I'm going off on a tangent, so I'll wrap up by saying my feminine side definitely shines through in this way -- I'm all about bonding, communication, harmony, and cooperative pursuits. On the other hand, I think of 'going it alone', reticence to trust or open up, peace as merely an effect of everyone knowing (and staying in) their place in the pecking order, and seeing others as potential competitors rather than potential collaborators, as the other (masculine) extreme. I'm not implying that you fall all the way at this end of the gamut, I'm just pointing this out in general.

swilow, I'd say I'm pretty masculine when it comes to sex. It's simply a visceral pleasure, like eating candy. It has nothing necessarily to do with love. But I'm also able to understand and respect the fact that women don't see it this way, without too much trouble, and therefore I consciously choose to use sex only in ways that grow and nurture my loving relationship.

Are creativity and discord part of the same phenomenon? Hmm... now that's a question worth its own thread in P&S, if you ask me
Yes, I think I can buy that. The old adage 'you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs' comes to mind here, as it could apply to both creative expression and the creation of discord. To make something from scratch necessarily involves manifesting your will upon the outer world, of upsetting something that was formerly in balance. I guess, like you, I choose to impose my will mainly on things, rather than people. Is this because I'm more in touch with my feminine side, or because I'm a male who's subpar at manipulating or dominating other males? Perhaps I'll never know.

 

[Roger&Me]

I don't hate hippies I just find that they are more idealistic rather than realistic.

WTF is a hippie?

 

[*Love*Lite*]

I am a hippie

just checking in and making sure that you boys are playing nice.

Ketaman- I believe that most guys that enjoy psychedelics and find a lady friend that enjoys them too are happier for it. I know Delsyd is

 

[dread]

I can dig that.

 

[ResinTeeth]

WTF is a hippie?

Good question seeing as the social movement termed hippie died out long ago. I think the term really gets thrown around out of context but sometimes it's the only word to use because people don't understand any other descriptor.

 

[DexterMeth]

Good question seeing as the social movement termed hippie died out long ago. I think the term really gets thrown around out of context but sometimes it's the only word to use because people don't understand any other descriptor.

Exactly, and same as "feminity", or however the fuck you spell it. Because like that shit is TOTALLY defined in the first place and has nothing to do with women being essentially totally repressed in every single society all the way up until forever...lol...my bad, if you cry you're gay, or at least bi-sexual...and there's no "middle ground" as a psychonaught..it's not like you have a reptilian brain and an intellectual one at the same time...it's not like I can be 100% totally racist for no reason and truely mean it (I'm not), yet have black friends and not talk shit around them. Because shit, I "totally" forgot...you can't fly around the human spectrum of all thought process and just float above it all and laugh/not laugh/just look and nod and not even nod, just look without any emotion and then fly around some more and then land back in your "I am Tarzan, this is Jane" body....No WAY!...you're either gay or don't do psychedelics....lmfao..I know some people like that..take that as most of you whilst not..that did WAY TOO MANY RC's..less than me and less drugs in general but are just strait up gay and I knew it before they even smoked weed..it just cracks me up when I chill with them and they try to "turn me to their side", and/or do gay shit in front of me, being offensive on purpose (to most strait guys), but since they know me so well I just tell them to go "chelsea girl it up" in their room while I watch Cops....Wow...off topic? No..definately not. Think about it, or don't. You either know who you are or you don't...the only middle ground is called "the nile". ...Some people should just never do psychedelics either, because it validates their masculinity in such a bad way (strait, bi, or gay), to where you can't even come close to reasoning with them...they're just bitches...I'll take a warning for saying all this...this shit's getting old anyways...I just wanted to get me last 2 cents or so out there for the younger people reading this that have idiot friends that are actually the confused/gay ones and don't realize it's all a product of their environment/people they surround themselves with...it's called choice people....but in the far far end...yeah, it's just the reptilian brain IMO...wtf-eva...glad "I helped"