Gabapentinoids Retro Sedatives Megathread

[4DQSAR]

"my muscles were so relaxed that they literally felt like they were melting" [Quaaludes]

indicocybin420  2026-08-12  h‍ttps://www.instagram.com/wallachlab/p/Db6xg9ZgbAf

Is Methaqualone purely a PAM?

Bacause the dose-range ia far more like older drugs that directly acted on chloride ion gating (certainly the picrotoxin site was identified in the action of barbiturates and chlormethiazole). With both classes you note the dose range is significantly higher than compounds known to purely act via PAM.

I'm not saying you are wrong, only saying that the last paper I read about 15 or 15 sites were listed with methaqualone being everything from a superagonist to an antagonist which again does not fit with the simple statement that methaqualone is a PAM.

 

[red22]

Case in point:

There was a vendor selling his own synthesized methaqualone HCl a few months back (not some shitty analog either; I bought some and had it tested). I tried it at multiple dosage ranges, and I wasn't that impressed. I will say the price point was a massive turnoff, but I still prefer carisoprodol...

In the name of science, I'll whip the powder out of my stash and parachute a good amount tonight.

I do know he was making his own anthranilic acid. Also, I don't believe this is the first time it's appeared on DNMs. There was another American vendor making it not too long ago before he also disappeared (maybe the CIA got to him...? xD). His prices were also significantly cheaper. I guess I really missed out... I checked again last night, and he's MIA once again.


As for which one is more clear-headed and which causes more brain fog: from what I remember, methaqualone. I'll be able to tell you more tonight. It was sloppier and felt more like being drunk. It definitely wasn't as lucid as Soma.

Soma seems to work almost too well for me on an empty stomach, even before the meprobamate phase kicks in.

I'll report back tonight. It's currently 9:30am here, and I'll probably take it around 4-5pm.

The quaalude comeback: a once ‘extinct’ drug from the 70s makes a resurgence. Mattha Busby. 2026-09-06. The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/sep/06/quaaludes-drug-comeback-popularity

 

[4DQSAR]

I saw the article at the time but noted it was a rehashed (no pun intended) article from Vice. They don't present evidence beyond a few vendors claiming to offer it. I mean nowhere was a sample obtained and tested nor hods of clubbers wobbling around on their pins.

As I see it the problem is that synthesis is messy and the (real) product is simply not all that potent. Before the two immediate precursors were controlled I can imagine 'cooks' using the thermal dehydration route as the beauty was that it was solvent-free and the unused precuror could simply be disposed on since it wasn't valuable. Still needed solvent to clean it but again, then acetone was far more widely used and while 55 gallon drums were hardly common, neither were they probable cause.

We had/have a friendly BLer who obtained and then (very carefully) weighed and vaped dimethaqualone and what was both interesting and scary was that for them 14mg was 'the sweet spot' so that compound consumed in that manner appeared to be at least an order of magnitude more potent* so MIGHT make commercial sense but they went on to note that at just 24mg they developed myoclonus and an aura that is often the sign of someone approaching their seizure threshold (and why dimethaqualone and indeed nitromethaqualone never became medicines). I might add that around 2014 a German RC vendor briefly offered dimethaqualone. VERY briefly after reports of seizures began to arrive.

I cannot help reflect that MAYBE when the DEA first noted that fake Quāāludes had added diazepam in the late 1970s, it MAY have been dimethaqualone; the diazepam to mitigate seizure risk. Just a guess but if it worked it likely would have been a cheaper option. Not a good or safe option, just a cheap one.

*Brit. J. Anaesth. (1972), 44, 83 'Intravenous Methaqualone: A New Non-Barbiturate anaesthetic' states 'methaqualone injections (300mg) were repeated intermittently at intervals of 15-20 minutes up to a total dose of 1200 mg (20 mg/kg) over a period of 1½ hours'.

I suggest that vaping the freebase and IVing a salt both do the same thing - rapidly accumulate the drug into the brain BUT duration appears rather short. We have a lot of evidence surrounding Mandrax abuse in South Africa in which users would smoke de wit pip, fall on their faces, wobble upright fifteen minutes later and do it all again.

From everything I've read, orally it was sort of a fad, vaping is all about the flash.

*More potent than oral dimethaqualone which in it's patent is designated 2-3x more potent than methaqualone.

 

[drewbocop]

Real, pharmacy-prescribed methaqualone is about the only one left on my bucket list that I haven't managed to acquire, and have accepted that I likely never will. There is currently a "boom" with methaqualone in the illegal/synthesized/RC circles. They are claiming it is legit, but the vendor-submitted, bare-bones CoA from a sketchy lab is suspect, along with everything else. I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. I believe it is likely one of the analogues, which are either garbage or outright dangerous (cancer, tremors, etc) so I'm not touching those with a 10 foot pole. Etaqualone, methoxyqualone (suspected in the new Lemmon pressies that are everywhere and was even named outright once), mebroqualone... none worth a damn. Seems of the people who have tried the "legitimate" methaqualone, you have two camps: 1. "These things are weak as hell, and I spent 300 dollars on 1 heavy dose" and 2. "BrOoOoOo ThEsE ArE So GoOd AnD ToTaLLy ReAL, TrUsT mE BrO".

Through the Discord grapevine of people who buy tons of everything, there was allegedly ONE chemist who made and sold his own in a limited batch. Not sure if those were pressed (waste of money) or sold as powder. I can't imagine with how many times I've seen this mentioned now that it all came from him and was real. Just posts on reddit I've seen alone would make that untrue. I think a LARGE portion of this stuff is methoxyqualone, and pretty crappy.

Just give me 3 REAL pills. That's all I ask. Just once. Please!

Luckily, I have managed to get my hands on both a lot of medical, IV Nembutal (pentobarbital) several years back (10/10 if you're careful, dead/10 if you're not) and very old Seconal (secobarbital) pills. Seconal was also very good, though I suspect potency was lost as they were over 30 years expired LOL

I would also like to try Miltown, despite having done my body weight in Soma (carisoprodol) over the decades. If anything, I'd just love to see some of that vintage packaging or prescription bottles. That stuff gets me off as much as the drugs themselves.

 

[placebonaut]

The quaalude comeback: a once ‘extinct’ drug from the 70s makes a resurgence. Mattha Busby. 2026-09-06. The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/sep/06/quaaludes-drug-comeback-popularity

not quaaludes but an analogue, lazy jurno!

I believe it is likely one of the analogues

2‑Methoxyqualone has been doing the rounds, it's a weaker shorter duration analogue - I've had about 20 of them, they're ok but not worth the price imho.

the vendors will claim they're just as good as quaalude but looking at papers and my own personal experience says otherwise!

Compound	Structural feature	Enzyme systems affected	Metabolic + toxicity profile	Pharmacological profile (potency, receptor binding, metabolism)	Reference context
Methaqualone	4‑methyl group on quinazolinone core; lipophilic	Hepatic microsomal oxidases (historical CYP‑type oxidative pathways)	Moderate metabolic rate; accumulates with repeated dosing; mild enzyme induction increases clearance over time; higher toxicity due to lipophilicity, respiratory‑depressant potential, and accumulation	Higher potency; stronger GABA‑A modulation; slower clearance; greater CNS depression	Verified: Goodman & Gilman’s Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics (1970s editions)
2‑Methoxyqualone	Methoxy group at position 2; increases polarity	Minimal effect on hepatic microsomal enzymes	Faster metabolism; rapid clearance; no meaningful induction; lower toxicity due to reduced lipophilicity, weaker CNS depression, and less accumulation	Lower potency; weaker GABA‑A modulation; shorter duration; faster clearance	Archival‑only: Schläfke & Müller, “Pharmacological Properties of Methoxy‑Substituted Quinazolinones”, 1968, Arzneimittelforschung

ONE chemist who made and sold his own in a limited batch.

I've been following quaalude on the markets and discussion generally for a few years, I think there is 1 USA based chemist who pops up occasionally with a batch and then disappears again, which suggests there's a precursor route available to produce it! maybe small volumes, maybe harder synthesis!

Not sure if those were pressed (waste of money) or sold as powder.

the US chemist I'm thinking of was selling powder.

I would also like to try Miltown, despite having done my body weight in Soma (carisoprodol) over the decades

I've done loads of soma, what are you expecting differently from straight miltown given that's what you're effectively getting with soma anyway? biggest issue it having to take enough soma without a shuffle to hit the equivalent miltown dosage given conversation rate in the body.

 

[4DQSAR]

@placebonaut - There was further research in Japan (?) in the early 1970s and from what I recall they identified that swapping the 2-methyl for a 2-fluoromethyl increased potency a little (but synthesis is more complex) and from the work on nitromethaqualone the '2 (ortho) nitro homologue of methaqualone was the most potent monosubstituted example but again synthesis is more complex.

BUT while there have been claims of compounds 20+ times more active than methaqualone, every single one of them share the same issue - extremely narrow TI.

From my own research I think you can only get to around twice the potency of methaqualone without that issue but not much further. Let's not forget that the original Indian researchers synthesized hundreds of related compounds before noting the sedative/hypnotic activity and were well aware that other '2 (ortho) homologues were active BUT they went with the simple methyl.

FYI in South Africa the MOST common active found in fake Mandrax tablets was the 2'-methyl-3'-chloro homologue estimated to be around x1.5 methaqualone.

The fact Mandrax has been popular in South Africa for over fifty years means that you can be certain every homologue (especially the potent ones) would be explored and yet none were found in samples. If one pipe results in seizures - the market is unlikely to accept it.

Years ago there was a single report of two 'cooks' somewhere in the UK who were caught because they tried to order the two immediate precursors to methaqualone. But I'm uncertain if even they really knew how to market the stuff. If one dose is 300mg then it would have to wholesale at quite substantial prices simply because of the low potency. The fact they tried to order two compounds on a very short list of Category 1 precursors MAY suggest that more generally they weren't particularly skilled.

One would in essence need to create a market. If that's well made fake Quāālude tablets intended to retail at £10 each or the freebase as a powder intended to be vaped, it would stick out like a sore thumb if only because methaqualones low potency means huge scales and/or very high prices.

The white pipe keeps burning | ISS Africa

Mandrax isn’t as profitable as heroin or meth but remains a lucrative trade for South African organised crime networks.

issafrica.org

In South Africa seizures in the range of TONNES is quite usual. It's the lack of oversight in the Indian industrial chemical field that allows large businesses to file the appropriate paperwork and have the appropriate answers for why they need these two specific chemicals and I dare say a natural skill in subouring Indian law enforcement coupled to the low wages that make it financially viable.

But in a developed nation with boarder controls, not really practical. Lets face it, if methaqualone was profitable, Mexican cartels would be importing it to the rest of North America.

Someone who has a few grams and can find a few fools to buy at ridiculous prices is one thing but I think it's a bit of a myth that methaqualone is coming back. It's just copy - a few hundred words knocked out by a freelancer.

BTW I am old enough to have known people who smoked Mandrax. They explained how a broken bottleneck was packed with a mixture of tobacco and cheap cannabis and how a flame was carefully applied to vaporize the methaqualone. They did say it was fun stuff. But by the 1980s a single tablet's street price was £1 so from that I infer that it wasn't THAT special and by then users tended to binge on them (just like in SA) i.e. they would buy someone's script and smoke the lot in an afternoon. I noted it always seemed to be consumed in company which may tell us something about the subjective effects and/or that a smoker would black out so using alone was dangerous.

 

[placebonaut]

From my own research I think you can only get to around twice the potency of methaqualone without that issue but not much further. Let's not forget that the original Indian researchers synthesized hundreds of related compounds before noting the sedative/hypnotic activity and were well aware that other '2 (ortho) homologues were active BUT they went with the simple methyl.

IIRC I posted somewhere all the analogues, there's lots of them and plenty of historic research

The fact they tried to order two compounds on a very short list of Category 1 precursors MAY suggest that more generally they weren't particularly skilled.

I think this hits the nail on the head, would be good to hear your view on this:- as a layman my perception is that cat 1 is too watched, and moving away to a different synthesis is harder to do so needs more skill. There's a bigger barrier to entry, this is practically what's stopping local manufacture in most countries.

if methaqualone was profitable, Mexican cartels would be importing it to the rest of North America.

yeah I've pondered this as well, my only conclusion is that it's a pain for them to get access to cat 1 precursors and they don't think there's a big enough market for it to be worth the effort - I'd be surprised if the precursors are so tightly regulated in china and india that there's no practical way for the cartels to to obtain them though, especially given what they're doing with fent....

maybe I'm too accepting of all the "war on drugs" success hype that I read about how removing quaaludes was the single greatest (only?!) success of the policy, it's kinda like there's a global amnesty on ludes!

Someone who has a few grams and can find a few fools to buy at ridiculous prices is one thing but I think it's a bit of a myth that methaqualone is coming back. It's just copy - a few hundred words knocked out by a freelancer.

it's a myth because no-ones making it.

I do think there's demand there though, even if it's just bucket list stuff people would buy it. General lack of barb availability too, soma's not really the best alternative to benzos......the other alternative is an opioid maybe?! no thanks, not for me.

In South Africa seizures in the range of TONNES is quite usual. It's the lack of oversight in the Indian industrial chemical field that allows large businesses to file the appropriate paperwork and have the appropriate answers for why they need these two specific chemicals and I dare say a natural skill in subouring Indian law enforcement coupled to the low wages that make it financially viable.

I don't really know much about the current state of the SA market, my knowledge of it comes from the Hamiton Morris video where he talked about trade of abalone with china for the precursors, but that was filmed some time ago. The article you linked references Indian gangs, have things really changed that much in recent years? why aren't the indian gangs supplying other markets?! strange

 

[4DQSAR]

Errata - in 2012 the UK Boarder Force intercepted 1kg of just one of the two immediate precursors.

Here's the thing - Vice simply looks at tranches of papers that are made public under the Freedom of Information Act, so no details. But only an amateur would try to import a catagory 1 precursor and NOT assume it would be spotted instantly.

I checked and in South Africa Mandrax sells for R25-70 (£1.10-£3.10/$3-$8) BUT analysis suggest they only contain 40-150mg.

It's an interesting parallel that in 1988 a Dove cost £20 but it was reliably 125mg of MDMA but I noted that within a few years the prices crashed BUT so did the amount of active.

BUT maybe for people who use de wit pip, smaller dose units are approriate?

 

[placebonaut]

I checked and in South Africa Mandrax sells for R25-70 (£1.10-£3.10/$3-$8) BUT analysis suggest they only contain 40-150mg.

given they tend to smoke it with weed I'm guessing they redose a few times a day....

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, my best guess is that one pill is used per pipe.

I strongly suspect the culture around people who smoke de wit pip is very similar to that surrounding crack users who buy tiny £5 deals that represent a single hit.

Production only works at huge scales in nations without oversight and use can only exist where people simply seek escapism.

I can only think that because a number of clients noted that when Spice was available, they chose it over crack. But the two are SO different that surely the users cannot be wedded to the specific ASC - only on just how A that SC is.

 

[red22]

Yesterday, I received my "Mephenaqualone," a relatively new analogue from 2023. It has effects similar to the original substance "Methaqualone," but it is significantly more potent.

Report and Question(s) about new Methaqualone analogue

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, it's two years later. Anyone ever come across this mythical 'Mephenaqualone'?

I mean, in Germany there are exactly the same sorts of reports about users having seizures with this stuff as when dimethaqualone turned up.

It's always potency that is the most important metric. Whatever is special about methaqualone does not seem ameanable to even slight modification and one of those things is probably how fast it crosses the BBB. With a much higher LogP I would expect these derivatives to have a slower onset as well as the observed longer duration which in a compound so toxic is probably a bad thing.

Sci-Hub: are you are robot?

Of course the usual problem exists - it's yet another 'mystery powder game'.

 

[Didgital]

As I see it the problem is that synthesis is messy and the (real) product is simply not all that potent.

There definitely have been some niche producers who have sold true (tested but impure) methaqualone on the darknet. The impurity was o-toluidine. It certainly hasn't emerged as a very available compound for the exact reasons you specified. I've not seen the methenaqualone pop up personally.

 

[placebonaut]

we're never getting ludes are we?

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, never say never but I do feel that much like LSD and MDMA, Quāāludes/Mandrax* was the right drug in the right place at the right time.

In the late 1960s a (strong) dose of LSD cost £1, in the late 1970s a Mandrax cost £1 BUT I suggest most users took more than one because tolerance build so fast and in the late 1980s a single Dove cost £20. Adjust for inflation and in each case the cost is about the same. Not unaffordable but likely if you bought your dose, that was you weekly 'fun' budget used up.

Originally none were cheap UNLESS one was going to a venue where alcohol would be the more costly option. Part of the allure was finding others who were on the same ride as you and enjoying their company. Laughing at the same things and feeling the connection while aware of the fact that you were in the vanguard of something new.

But RCs sort of ruined that because people suddenly had access to all manner of things and to me, mephadrone was seen as a bit like amphetamine, a bit like MDMA and a bit like cocaine so while probably quite a decent option, it grew exponentially because it was also CHEAP. Extemely cheap almost from day 1 because the synthesis was undemanding so competition appeared FAST.

Now the problem with methaqualone is that due to it's low potecy, economics demand production on a massive scale and a long-term market of dependent users. In the US I know fake Quāāludes turned up for a few years but it seems either there weren't many dependent users or at least diazepam or something similar meant dependent users weren't desperate enough to pay high prices for the stuff.

*Quāāludes contained 300mg methaqualone hydrochloride while Mandrax contained 250mg methaqualone freebase + 25mg diphenhydramine

I checked and in the late 1960s to early 1970s most Quāālude deaths were people taking too many but as the 70s went on the chief mechanism was people on the stuff having accidents. Apparently methaqualone fooled people into thinking they were mentally clear even when others saw they were very obviously under the influence.

Don't forget - survivorship bias plays into the mystique as does it's association with the rich and glamerous (see Studio 54). We don't hear from the people who it messed up, only from famous people likely confusing their own arrogance with the effects of the stuff.

 

[placebonaut]

@4DQSAR interesting post quite a bit to unpack here!

right drug right time - sure I get that, but you could say the same for LSD which is still around

historic pricing - yes agree as well, but price/demand elasticity is a big factor here, smaller current market/demand = lower production = higher pricing

RC market and low prices - yes that's definitely a factor for RC and how things have gone with that market, and agree that's driving the produces down a certain direction, but it's the eternal cat and mouse game for them trying to "find the next big thing", given where regulation has gone my gut feel is we won't have a similar explosion of new drugs hitting the market because there won't be such wide spread availability of people to try things again (unless they target markets with poorer regulation e.g. africa), in other words we lack the ability for large scale human trials of new illicit drugs, this dents confidence for people buying new things and therefore slows down market adoption

Does methaqualone have an economic disadvantage because of it's low potency - if it were a new drug entering the market then I think you would have a much stronger point, though I do agree that from a producers perspective the issue is that you have a larger barrier to wait for people to become addicted to it due to it's potency, addiction drives repeat business....and there are alternatives which work (arguably) better than ludes to achieve better results i.e. benzos.

I guess a different way of looking at this is, do the cartels/OCGs want a share of the pharma benzo market by introducing something that competes with it directly, either benzo RC, or alternative compound that takes some of the market down a different route. OR is selling pharma products with a smaller margin profitable enough that they just don't care. Ludes are already an established drug, so launching them into the market is much easier.

it's a simple thing to look at imho, market size, market share. margin, sales, production cost - I've not run the numbers but in my head I'm struggling how this doesn't add up. Maybe it's more an issue of finite resources v return.

Lude related deaths - no doubt whatever the underling reason there was harm caused by ludes at the time, this was a big driver for the ban. But I think this is so so much lower in numbers that the opioid crisis we're currently in, like multiple orders of magnitude difference, I'm not sure it's relevant enough to today.

Survivor bias - hmm, I get your point but not sure I buy it to be honest. Yes people look back with rose tinted glasses, but there are plenty of contemporary reports, studies and papers that looked at lude use at the time which I think mitigate this from a being a major issue imho. I think we have a decent and true enough reflection of the impact that ludes had both good and bad that I suspect survivor bais isn't a major issue. If anything my perception is actually the other way, most modern reports I read from people who use ludes at the time generally enjoyed/loved them but didn't think there were as good as the romanticised view that the media has created around them

 

[4DQSAR]

It's the low potency of methaqualone that's the main barrier. Tolerence apparently developed fast enough for even people who only used them at weekends to graduate from one to several over an evening.

I've never seen the film but am told that in 'The Wolf of Wall Street' the antihero consumes five Quāāludes which does rather suggest that even the mythology may in truth be saying one was enough without adding the 'until you needed two'.

If you read books about that era, downers in clubs wasn't limited to methaqualone. I suspect it was simply because methaqualone was the last of it's generation not to be legally controlled that it gained cache - those who could afford a Dr. Feelgood could get a legal prescription so they could more openly say that they took it.

 

[placebonaut]

It's the low potency of methaqualone that's the main barrier. Tolerence apparently developed fast enough for even people who only used them at weekends to graduate from one to several over an evening.

didn't know that on tolerance

I've never seen the film but am told that in 'The Wolf of Wall Street' the antihero consumes five Quāāludes which does rather suggest that even the mythology may in truth be saying one was enough without adding the 'until you needed two'.

it's a fucking brilliant film, but it's lock stock and 2 smoking barrels type sensationalist stuff well written and with bags of comedy.

it's not a factual drug film

If you read books about that era, downers in clubs wasn't limited to methaqualone. I suspect it was simply because methaqualone was the last of it's generation not to be legally controlled that it gained cache - those who could afford a Dr. Feelgood could get a legal prescription so they could more openly say that they took it.

availability was certainly a big thing, think anyone could get a script for it or just buy it in the street

 

[red22]

⌜                  ⌝
Christa Pike, the woman who survived an execution attempt in Tennessee earlier this week, remains hospitalized in critical condition, her lawyers said in a new statement Friday.

She is unconscious, intubated and breathing through a ventilator. The death row inmate is also being treated for “significant injuries to both arms” sustained when two lethal injections of pentobarbital failed to kill her.
⌞                  ⌟

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...tor-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195

 

[placebonaut]

⌜                  ⌝
Christa Pike, the woman who survived an execution attempt in Tennessee earlier this week, remains hospitalized in critical condition, her lawyers said in a new statement Friday.

She is unconscious, intubated and breathing through a ventilator. The death row inmate is also being treated for “significant injuries to both arms” sustained when two lethal injections of pentobarbital failed to kill her.
⌞                  ⌟

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...tor-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195

only in merica could they incompetently try to execute someone and then give them "life saving" treatment when they fucked things up.

"in god we trust", then let her live her life out and god will punish her in due time.

As an atheist it's barbaric on multiple levels regardless of her crime (and yes I know what she did and the context) - punishing her for life doesn't loose anything even if you do believe in god, we don't need to make people suffer disproportionately to punish them.