News Severe Co-Codamol Shortage in the UK

[KurtAurelius]

It would give them a break from opioid-induced hyperalgesia though. That's the tendency of opioids to increase pain sensitivity ... it's a key factor for habitual reuse/relapse. I explained more on that in this post.

Somewhat ironically, the most sustainable (imo) opioids are all OTC.

Hi Allyl

I’ve compiled many of the useful stuff you’ve provided,

I have started experiments to try get a OTC Opioid Light Experience,

So far Agmatine, CBG, high dose Black Seed Together is really impressive from someone who was taking 400mg+ Codeine in a day 3-4 weeks ago

It seems the terpenes are the most essential but maybe I’m being thick but I can’t find any info on how to dose them or even consume them?

I can remeber it’s Linalool, Eugenol, B Carlophyene, Mycerne, Alpha Piene, Mryhh and Vanillin

I could also add in Maganol/Honokiol tbf too

Oh also I’ve avoided Curcumin because I remember being told it’s sereontergic and lowers dopamine (I’m low dopamine a lot of the time even with better metabolic health)

 

[Allylbenzene]

I have started experiments to try get a OTC Opioid Light Experience,

So far Agmatine, CBG, high dose Black Seed Together is really impressive from someone who was taking 400mg+ Codeine in a day 3-4 weeks ago

Nice mix! Imo strategically constructed combinations unlocks notable synergistic potency which is advantageously sustainable compared to single substance options like just kratom or just codeine (kratom itself contains several alkaloids which have multiple properties eg mitragynine is pro-opioid, blocks another opioid receptor, blocks serotonin 5-HT2A, is pro-cannabinoid, pro-dopamine etc).

I'd add sodium ascorbate too, I posted about it somewhere here.

It seems the terpenes are the most essential but maybe I’m being thick but I can’t find any info on how to dose them or even consume them?

I'll get my pure steam-distilled essential oils or terpene isolate oils and dilute a small dose into a capsule. Alternatively dilute then into coconut oil and add a small amount to inner arm or upper leg (not necessarily suitable for places where the generally agreeable smell might be not suited for like work?). Rarely I'll add a tiny amount of terpene oil to the rizzla paper or directly onto bud.

Myrrh comes in resin also which is great to chew if thats your thing. This was i think a common traditional method. Chewing myrrh or frankincense resin (or elemi resin) is "old school" medicinal and recreational.

I can remeber it’s Linalool, Eugenol, B Carlophyene, Mycerne, Alpha Piene, Mryhh and Vanillin

Tbh all the hundreds of terpenes have something to add but yes those are the main ones here. I'd add limonene, menthol, beta pinene and bisabolol since those have psychoactive effects which will be very synergistic with the rest of your combo.

Limonene boosts mood and reduces stress which boosts dopamine, menthol is GABAergic iirc and contributes opioid activity (it interacts with one of the 3 opioid receptor), ß-pinene is dopaminergic (iirc) and opioid also, bisabolol is GABAergic which indirectly boosts dopamine.

So it's not always just about using direct opioid substances.

Oh also I’ve avoided Curcumin because I remember being told it’s sereontergic and lowers dopamine (I’m low dopamine a lot of the time even with better metabolic health)

The metabolic health boost from things like low-dose pregnenolone, thiamine, niacinamide, low-dose caffeine, low-dose aspirin, low-dose taurine all directly boost dopanine and indirectly by reducing things that are "anti-dopamine". It's important to reduce the anti-dopamine things imo.

 

[Ismene2]

What do you think of vaping terpenes Allyl? I used to take them orally but I got a bit concerned at how much I was taking longterm. Vaping does get you a higher concentration of terps in the brain but orally lasts longer. I also try sublingual.

 

[lost weekend]

Hi Allyl

I’ve compiled many of the useful stuff you’ve provided,

I have started experiments to try get a OTC Opioid Light Experience,

So far Agmatine, CBG, high dose Black Seed Together is really impressive from someone who was taking 400mg+ Codeine in a day 3-4 weeks ago

It seems the terpenes are the most essential but maybe I’m being thick but I can’t find any info on how to dose them or even consume them?

I can remeber it’s Linalool, Eugenol, B Carlophyene, Mycerne, Alpha Piene, Mryhh and Vanillin

I could also add in Maganol/Honokiol tbf too

Oh also I’ve avoided Curcumin because I remember being told it’s sereontergic and lowers dopamine (I’m low dopamine a lot of the time even with better metabolic health)

You've lost me now lol.
When you say black seed ,do you mean poppy seeds ?

 

[lost weekend]

As I've mentioned before in a post I was probably very fortunate to buy 2 small jars of poppy seeds from a supermarket that knocked me for 6
It lasted well into following day and that was with some kind of tolerance, hard to believe I know but I can assure you I had to practice forming words and coherent sentences travelling to work the following day.
Sadly I've been unable to repeat experience

 

[Allylbenzene]

When you say black seed ,do you mean poppy seeds ?

There's another opioid style seed that is black:

• Black seed (Nigella sativa) oil (thymoquinone)

 

[KurtAurelius]

You've lost me now lol.
When you say black seed ,do you mean poppy seeds ?

My bad black seed extract but usually known as BSO. Used for withdrawals and tolerance usually but high doses are psychoactive in my experience.

I do have fresh (ish?) receptors as it’s been a month abstinence + tolerance agents.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Christ, this codeine shortage is starting to hit hard now.

I've just had to shell out nearly 7 quid for 12 Paramol FFS!!

 

[Allylbenzene]

Who's still using codeine without an otc TLR4 blocker? Long-term codeine does the reverse of analgesia... unless you use a TLR4 blocker.

Codeine is metabolized to morphine. Prolonged morphine exposure exacerbates pain (hyperalgesia) by activating TLR4
...codeine induced similar...hyperalgesia...suggesting codeine does not rely upon conversion to morphine to increase pain sensitivity.

This highlights the potential non-opioid receptor-dependent nature of codeine-enhanced pain sensitivity
— https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2014.121

Several TLR4 antagonists and glial modulators shown to reduce opioid-induced tolerance, hyperalgesia and allodynia preclinically are clinically available...
— 10.1177/0310057X211063891

Drugs like opioids, alcohol and psychostimulants activate TLR4 signaling and subsequently induce proinflammatory responses, which in turn contributes to the development of drug addiction.
— 10.3389/fphar.2020.603445

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Who's still using codeine without an otc TLR4 blocker?

Me! Though I don't use it in excess or for analgesia usually.

What are these OTC TLR4 blockers then? What would one ask for?

 

[Allylbenzene]

Me! Though I don't use it in excess or for analgesia usually.

I'd say this tlr4 issue is relevant regardless of how frequently someone chooses to use them:

...structurally diverse opioids (including the clinically relevant agonists morphine, fentanyl, remifentanil, methadone, oxycodone, buprenorphine, meperidine and antagonists naloxone and naltrexone) interact with Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4)
— 10.1177/0310057X211063891

What are these OTC TLR4 blockers then? What would one ask for?

The most well-known ones are naloxone and naltrexone but more OTC (relatively speaking) options include agmatine, pregnenolone, thymoquinone, aspirin, frankincense/myrrh and beta-caryophyllene. This post outlines the essentials for keeping opioid tolerances low and overall harm reduction methods for all drugs.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I'd say this tlr4 issue is relevant regardless of how frequently someone chooses to use them:



The most well-known ones are naloxone and naltrexone but more OTC (relatively speaking) options include agmatine, pregnenolone, thymoquinone, aspirin and beta-caryophyllene. This post outlines the essentials for keeping opioid tolerances low and overall harm reduction methods for all drugs.

Wwll, I'm prescribed aspirin 75mg daily. Would that do it?

 

[Allylbenzene]

Most likely. Those other options have opioid potentiation effects also, and ironically most of them prevent tolerance from accumulating whilst having opioidergic effects themselves.

This is why user KurtAurelius mentioned earlier that he's building an otc opioid stack which imo can easily outperform codeine (and plausibly morphine also). Maybe a new motto: "say NO to unsustainable opioids and choose more efficient ones instead"...aka "choose better drugs". I think any recreational or medicinal user can agree with that.

 

[BadBoy377]

Christ, this codeine shortage is starting to hit hard now.

I've just had to shell out nearly 7 quid for 12 Paramol FFS!!

Shite, man.

 

[KurtAurelius]

Christ, this codeine shortage is starting to hit hard now.

I've just had to shell out nearly 7 quid for 12 Paramol FFS!!

I paid £5 for 12 Paramol (horrible virus I suddenly got and wanted pain relief) it got me going quite nicely for therapeutic doses (just two) but what a joke lol

Side note above^ I’ve been using black seed and Agmatine and found 14mg of DHC was noticeably psychoactive and more importantly a amazing analgesic when I was abusing 400mg+ codeine a few weeks ago.

This TLR4 stuff is real. It makes me not have cravings etc. I maybe could have gone without the Paramol but I was really sick. I only used half the pack across yesterday and got such good sleep I don’t feel the need to use any today.

Just black seed,coffee + tea cannabis and later Agmatine

 

[Allylbenzene]

This TLR4 stuff is real. It makes me not have cravings etc.
Just black seed,coffee + tea cannabis and later Agmatine

Caffeine and CBG both block/reduce TLR4. CBD and THC probably do aswell besides the cannabis terpenes (eg caryophyllene) which you can also buy. Caryophyllene isolate is cheap and potent. Add some limonene and you've got a basic recreational therapeutic combo.

 

[Ddeeee]

Well Pete556 / Ganjcat is fucked.

One for Pete right here.

Are you following me now mate how did you find this??

 

[Ismene2]

Christ, this codeine shortage is starting to hit hard now.

I've just had to shell out nearly 7 quid for 12 Paramol FFS!!

Every time I go in morrisons I go to the pharmacy and look longingly at the empty cocodamol shelf then my eyes flicker to the £12 paramol but i cant face paying that for it. Generic cocodamol has stayed below £4 for at least 10 years, paramol has doubled the chiselling bastards.

Paramol is ok - I did itch on it tho.

 

[Ddeeee]

I might just get a box of cocodomal and cwe for the heck of it to top me up lol..

I reckon paramol would still get me high tho.. my mum had some for cancer treatment a few years ago she gave me 2 10mg tabs and I was suprised to find I defo felt them. if I had to I could get high off codeine to but it would take atleast 1500mg and some promethazine to sedate more and stop the histamine reaction.

 

[LoginNotSecure]

1.5G of codeine would be a waste, anything between 360mg and 850mg and you’ll get sharp decrease of diminishing returns.

Stick to 500mg and under. Especially if you’re using a potentiator such as Promethazine. Bear in mind the potentiator effects is just the sedation giving you a much greater risk of suffering from respiratory problems.

I’ll end with, if you like getting high, then do it safely because you do it badly once and it’ll be your last.