Kratom How much do benzos help for plain leaf and REGULAR extract WD?

[Mycophile]

So I love plain leaf Kratom and regular extracts like OPMS black and have been dependent on and off for 11 years. However, I've also taken Klonopin regularly during that time, and eventually I will have to stop and my doctor's plan is to use Gabapentin to do it. I know that benzos make Kratom WD significantly easier, and so does Gabapentin, so even after I get off Klonopin I'll have Gabapentin.

Still, I am wondering, for those who have been through plain leaf and regular extract WD (NOT 7-OH or pseudo): how much do benzos like Klonopin really help? Cause I find the WD to be easy and just mildly annoying and I go through it multiple times a year, but I'm concerned it might be considerably harder without the Klonopin.

Lets do a scale of 1-5: 5 = benzos help a little but it's not all that different withdrawing without them 4= benzos help considerably but it's not like a whole different world 3 = benzos help a lot and you might be surprised by the WD without them but it's still not that big a deal 2 = benzos help a REAL lot and you really haven't experienced Kratom wd if you've always been on benzos and finally 1 = Kratom WD without benzos is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING AND IS REALLY HARD BY COMPARISON and it's so different you can't even begin to compare the two.

So yeah, which is it in your opinions?

Also, which do you guys think helps more for Kratom WD: Klonopin or Gabapentin?

 

[Mycophile]

Guys, I know this isn't an interesting question, but it's the second time I've asked it with no response, and I'm sure there's some guys here who have been through Kratom WD both on and off benzos so...

 

[WellTram]

Hello. Clonazepam is good one to have while taper opioids ( i had diazepam - worked perfect, now alprazolam screwed my detox ).
Gabapentin won't stop withdrawal from clonazepam. U will want to taper this substance down. Slowly. Gabapentin can help but Its not that great. Even much stronger pregabalin can cause seizures on itself so....Taper it. Trust me. I had seizures because my doc filled my script too late ( benzo script ) and my heart stopped for a few seconds...Tapering opioids, can be done but its complete discomfort for days-weeks. Benzo wd is actualy much more problematic and dangerous.

 

[Mycophile]

Hello. Clonazepam is good one to have while taper opioids ( i had diazepam - worked perfect, now alprazolam screwed my detox ).
Gabapentin won't stop withdrawal from clonazepam. U will want to taper this substance down. Slowly. Gabapentin can help but Its not that great. Even much stronger pregabalin can cause seizures on itself so....Taper it. Trust me. I had seizures because my doc filled my script too late ( benzo script ) and my heart stopped for a few seconds...Tapering opioids, can be done but its complete discomfort for days-weeks. Benzo wd is actualy much more problematic and dangerous.

When I eventually do get off Klonopin (not now) my doctor is going to very slowly taper me but he's going to replace it with Gabapentin because he thinks it's good for anxiety and doesn't cause alzheimers like Klonopin can. He's not using it for the WD symptoms but as a replacement. And yes, I know how much more problematic benzo WD is than opioid WD. And I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

However, you never answered my actual question, which is how much worse is Kratom WD on vs off benzos? You didn't even mention Kratom, so it kind of seems like you really didn't read my post very well.

For anyone who hasn't answered yet, lets extend it to certain other opioids but have them be ones that are milder (not sure which ones have milder WDs cause I avoid hard opioids and have only used Kratom).

Come on guys. I know plenty of people here have been in Kratom or mild opioid WD and been through it both with and without the help of benzos but for whatever reason no one is responding.

 

[lost weekend]

In my experience benzos do not help ,they help for sleep but that's about it .I used to be able to interchange between dihdrocodine and kratom with no noticeable difference as there both so similar ,dhc in small doses [90mg] gave me the same energy ,not quite the same concentration levels and at higher doses sleepiness .I also found they were an excellent combination with alcohol as kratom is .codine has not the same effect but helps with stomach .
Appart from rls ,insomnia,the list goes on my stomach was very unsettled which makes it hard to go about your day.
Some people seem to be lucky and get mild wd not me unfortunately.
That was just my experience but it makes sence that a mild opioide would help with both the physical and mental withdrawals.
Clonazepam is a different beast I tried gabapentin and couldn't say that it made a dent on wd.didnt even help with sleep ,maybe it stopped me having a seizure which I could feel comming on 5 days after stopping .
I used alcohol which absolutely helps at time but makes it worse later at 2 am when you wake up

 

[paranoid android]

Never had kratom but they help everything from oy to fent wd's. So should work

 

[lost weekend]

Never had strong opoids so can't comment .I've had pregablin which I certainly felt the effects of especially when drinking ,not a good idea ,the fact they give you similar confidence to benzos (which is the reason most people self medicate on benzos I think)would have helped me more I think .

 

[Mycophile]

Thanks for responding guys. Looks like 2 people disagree on how much benzos help. I'm still curious how much they help just cause when I eventually get off Klonopin I'm hoping the WD won't be much harder cause I don't really find it very hard now but I know there's a difference. That's why I asked. Seems like the one person who has done both, Lost Weekend, doesn't feel benzos help that much so in a way that makes me feel better lol. I've never tried dihdrocodine and didn't know it's similar to Kratom. That probably means I'd like it a lot lol.

 

[cnnka]

IMO they help a lot especially psychologically for anxiety etc and they let your body relax

 

[WellTram]

When I eventually do get off Klonopin (not now) my doctor is going to very slowly taper me but he's going to replace it with Gabapentin because he thinks it's good for anxiety and doesn't cause alzheimers like Klonopin can. He's not using it for the WD symptoms but as a replacement. And yes, I know how much more problematic benzo WD is than opioid WD. And I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

However, you never answered my actual question, which is how much worse is Kratom WD on vs off benzos? You didn't even mention Kratom, so it kind of seems like you really didn't read my post very well.

For anyone who hasn't answered yet, lets extend it to certain other opioids but have them be ones that are milder (not sure which ones have milder WDs cause I avoid hard opioids and have only used Kratom).

Come on guys. I know plenty of people here have been in Kratom or mild opioid WD and been through it both with and without the help of benzos but for whatever reason no one is responding.

Ofc clonazepam will help during kratom detox. Benzos, tizanidine, clonidine, meds like this always help. For pain i advice also NSAID + tizanidine clonazepam...Well, it won't make u worse. U will be more relax, both body and mind.

 

[lost weekend]

Every one is different, taking kratom twice sometimes 3 times a day for 18 years (give or take) and then to not have it atol leaves [pardon the pun) a huge hole in your life,almost a lifetime of routine morning, night and extra on weekends disappears.
Sure any benzo helps with calming the mind ,rls and sleep but I suppose it would be like a chronic alcoholic having to stop what is golden nectar to them for a tablet that merely stops the staggers and jags but not the intence craving for drink
If you only ever experience mild wd then that's fine but then you have the problem of clonazepam, a devil of a drug.
If you are having to come of both or taper your klonopin at same time I wish you all the best

 

[lost weekend]

When I eventually do get off Klonopin (not now) my doctor is going to very slowly taper me but he's going to replace it with Gabapentin because he thinks it's good for anxiety and doesn't cause alzheimers like Klonopin can. He's not using it for the WD symptoms but as a replacement. And yes, I know how much more problematic benzo WD is than opioid WD. And I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

However, you never answered my actual question, which is how much worse is Kratom WD on vs off benzos? You didn't even mention Kratom, so it kind of seems like you really didn't read my post very well.

For anyone who hasn't answered yet, lets extend it to certain other opioids but have them be ones that are milder (not sure which ones have milder WDs cause I avoid hard opioids and have only used Kratom).

Come on guys. I know plenty of people here have been in Kratom or mild opioid WD and been through it both with and without the help of benzos but for whatever reason no one is responding.

Just out of intrest How much klonopin per day are you having to taper down from .

 

[Helpmeescapethis]

Benzos will help a ton with kratom withdrawal. Kratom withdrawal (even from the best, full spectrum extract possible) is easily remedied compared to the serious opioid habits of the modern world. Even up to insane doses like 60g/day. I’d look into various RC benzos due to ease of availability.

Gabapentin can help a ton too. But its cousin pregabalin is far better for the task. A combination of both gabapentin and benzos will be all you need. You’ll be able to sleep and eat, and even feel a decent enough buzz.

Since you’re posting this question, I’m going to assume that this is your first experience with opioid withdrawal. Remember that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people every day that are facing withdrawals from over a gram/day of IV heroin/street fentanyl habits. While homeless. And they get up and hustle to get things done.

It may feel like the worst thing you’ve ever experienced (because all you know is what you’ve presently experienced), but just be aware that it’s nothing compared to the reality of what it could be.

 

[Mycophile]

Every one is different, taking kratom twice sometimes 3 times a day for 18 years (give or take) and then to not have it atol leaves [pardon the pun) a huge hole in your life,almost a lifetime of routine morning, night and extra on weekends disappears.
Sure any benzo helps with calming the mind ,rls and sleep but I suppose it would be like a chronic alcoholic having to stop what is golden nectar to them for a tablet that merely stops the staggers and jags but not the intence craving for drink
If you only ever experience mild wd then that's fine but then you have the problem of clonazepam, a devil of a drug.
If you are having to come of both or taper your klonopin at same time I wish you all the best

So you've really been on Kratom almost every day for 18 years? May I ask, what are your main reasons for using? For pain, and/or just for fun and/or depression, anxiety, mental health or some other reason?

Just curious cause my main reasons are anxiety and depression and it works far better than any other prescribed or street drug ever. Problem is of course its incredible short duration and short half-life, and also that I feel it starts to lose its effects so that you have to raise dosage and with that comes more side effects and worse WD.

See, I'm CONSTANTLY cycling on and off of it. It's kind of ironic that I'm afraid of Kratom WD getting too bad when I'm dependent on Klonopin, but again, the difference is that I've never had to go through Klonopin WD cause it lasts like 12 hours (well, my doc says probably only 9 for me after my liver has adapted over the years) and the half life is like 5 days so you just arent going to go into WD unless you really lose access, where Kratom lasts about 4 hours and the half life is probably something like 24 hours or less. I don't know, I'd have to check.

I DON'T have to come off both at once though. I'm not even tapering Klonopin yet. And like I said, I constantly go on and off Kratom cold turkey with relatively mild WDs but they are just annoying enough to mess with my productivity in life so it's not so great.

 

[Mycophile]

Just out of intrest How much klonopin per day are you having to taper down from .

Well, it's a hard question to answer cause I take different doses at different times. USUALLY I only take 1mg a day at night to help with sleep and I work from home so I don't get the social anxiety I'd get out in the world. However, I'm really into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and that's the main thing I do outside of the house and when I do that I need to take 1.5mgs before class and then come home and take another 1mg so then that's 2.5. I will have periods where I'm training 3 days a week give or take, so those days it's more and the others less. But then I'll stop because I don't like training while i'm in WD and also even after all these years of training and getting a black belt I am lazy as fuck and end up not training regularly enough for all sorts of stupid reasons, but I've been doing it on and off for like 30 years.

So, yeah.....that's your answer, like probably 60% of the time I take 1.0mg per day and the other 40% like 3 days a week would be 2.5 and the other just the 1. It's totally not what my doctor wants me to do but I have years worth of extra Klonopin from saving up when other doctors over prescribed. But eventually that stash will wear out and that worries me.

But I'm not even tapering right now anyway and I don't know when I'll start but I will have to sooner or later.

To tell you the truth, there was only one time I was forcibly taken off it by some REALLY fucked up doctors. They took me off cold turkey like 11 years ago and SOMEHOW I had ZERO WD!!! It was like some freak occurrence, but I know it won't be that way next time.

 

[Mycophile]

Benzos will help a ton with kratom withdrawal. Kratom withdrawal (even from the best, full spectrum extract possible) is easily remedied compared to the serious opioid habits of the modern world. Even up to insane doses like 60g/day. I’d look into various RC benzos due to ease of availability.

Abstention can help a ton too. But its cousin pregabalin is far better for the task. A combination of both gabapentin and benzos will be all you need. You’ll be able to sleep and eat, and even feel a decent enough buzz.

Since you’re posting this question, I’m going to assume that this is your first experience with opioid withdrawal. Remember that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people every day that are facing withdrawals from over a gram of IV heroin/street fentanyl withdrawals. While homeless. And they get up and hustle to get things done.

It may feel like the worst thing you’ve ever experienced (because all you know is what you know), but just be aware that it’s nothing compared to the reality of what it could be.

Yeah, I TOTALLY know that Kratom is a super mild opioid and that others are ten billion times worse. To tell you the truth, I find cold turkey caffeine WD to be worse than Kratom WD.

I have had some very mild Oxycodone/hydrocodone WD from taking some extras when prescribed for injuries but I didn't use much so yeah, that's it for opioids. To say it's my "first experience with opioid WD" sounds kind of funny though since I've been having WD on a regular basis for like 11 years of using Kratom, and also, by saying "first" it almost sounds like you think I'll be taking stronger opioids in the future (I don't think you assume that, it's just how it sounds) and I'm pretty determined not to do that.

Yeah, any lack of living an active enough life while in WD is honestly more a psychological problem than physical. I'm not going to let your anecdote of "homeless people getting shit done in heroin WD" deter me from my desire to figure this out because what they do or don't do doesn't matter to me. I just find I'm less productive than I'd like when withdrawing from Kratom and I'm trying to figure out a way around it.

Also, and I do try my best not to judge homeless people, but seriously bro, how much are they really "getting shit done while hustling"? They couldn't be getting THAT much shit done or they wouldn't be homeless, and a good percentage of homeless addicts are actually homeless because they are addicts, either because they can't get jobs cause their addiction interferes too much, because they weren't able to hold onto jobs because they couldn't afford their addiction and make enough money to survive, or some combination of those things. I'm NOT interested in becoming homeless and trying to up my productivity in my life while still using Kratom (and I find it DOES help me be more productive while on it but I always have to cycle off cause it loses effect) so there's really no connection here, and no offense, but it kind of sounds like you are being a little preachy here.

I NEVER said it was "the worst thing I've ever experienced." Not sure why you think I'm saying that I find it horrible. I find it ANNOYING. Again, cold turkey caffeine WD is way worse for me and I've tried that several times. If you want to talk about sucky shit I've experienced I'll tell you about the THREE times I tore my ACLs in my knees and had to go through 6 months of intense rehab to get back to my sport of choice (BJJ) and at first to even begin to WALK again or stand on one leg, or the fact that I've developed chronic neck issues with cervical disk disease and have to do PT 5 days a week for the pain.

And I don't really know what point you're trying to make by telling me (what I already know) that there's a billion opioids and other drugs with ten times worse WD. Just curious but what was your reason for even telling me that?

Cause it's sort of out of context and those entire thread was only my wondering whether or not Klonopin makes kratom WD easier so that my perception that Kratom WD is relatively easy is because I take Klonopin or if it's maybe not that big a deal. Opinions seem to be mixed.

So you think that Pregablin is better for Kratom WD than Klonopin or better than Gabapentin? Cause when I eventually have to taper off Klonopin my doctor says he's probably going to give me Gabapentin. He says he likes Pregablin but not quite as much. But then we are talking about how those drugs work on KLONOPIN WD which is like a ZILLION times worse than Kratom WD.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I find cold turkey caffeine WD to be worse than Kratom WD.

Fwiw, caffeine is a serious metabolic enhancer/booster which is in it's own class of stimulant. It's unlike cocaine, amphetamines, methylphenidate, bupropion etc. The closest thing is probably T3 (liothyronine) which is thyroid hormone.

I just find I'm less productive than I'd like when withdrawing from Kratom and I'm trying to figure out a way around it.

The simplest answer is to restore your body's core metabolic system (thyroid, mitochondria).

So you think that Pregablin is better for Kratom WD than Klonopin or better than Gabapentin? Cause when I eventually have to taper off Klonopin my doctor says he's probably going to give me Gabapentin.

Imo there's more efficient options for dealing with kratom WD (and preventing future relapse)... and more efficient ways to taper of Klonopin than Gabapentin, which has it's own issues.

 

[lost weekend]

So you've really been on Kratom almost every day for 18 years? May I ask, what are your main reasons for using? For pain, and/or just for fun and/or depression, anxiety, mental health or some other reason?

Just curious cause my main reasons are anxiety and depression and it works far better than any other prescribed or street drug ever. Problem is of course its incredible short duration and short half-life, and also that I feel it starts to lose its effects so that you have to raise dosage and with that comes more side effects and worse WD.

See, I'm CONSTANTLY cycling on and off of it. It's kind of ironic that I'm afraid of Kratom WD getting too bad when I'm dependent on Klonopin, but again, the difference is that I've never had to go through Klonopin WD cause it lasts like 12 hours (well, my doc says probably only 9 for me after my liver has adapted over the years) and the half life is like 5 days so you just arent going to go into WD unless you really lose access, where Kratom lasts about 4 hours and the half life is probably something like 24 hours or less. I don't know, I'd have to check.

I DON'T have to come off both at once though. I'm not even tapering Klonopin yet. And like I said, I constantly go on and off Kratom cold turkey with relatively mild WDs but they are just annoying enough to mess with my productivity in life so it's not so great.

Your lucky ,after 12 hours without redosing I get wd.most people on forum will think I'm a lightweight but it's all I've ever known.i take it now just to feel normal and regarding benzos all it does is make me sleep and perhaps take away some anxiety but the wd are still there .
I love caffeine but without kratom I avoid it .
Klonopin is certainly 10 times worse to come off and kratom although is better than nothing does help if only slightly
In answer to your question regarding taking kratom like every other drug I just tried it once and loved it ,made me so much more sociablle person then eventually you just need it to feel normal.
In my experience only a mild opiate like codine helps
Yeh life sucks when you struggle to get through your day without kratom .

 

[Allylbenzene]

...and regarding benzos all it does is make me sleep and perhaps take away some anxiety but the wd are still there .

I'm guessing you've tried other WD/recovery strategies?

 

[Mycophile]

Fwiw, caffeine is a serious metabolic enhancer/booster which is in it's own class of stimulant. It's unlike cocaine, amphetamines, methylphenidate, bupropion etc. The closest thing is probably T3 (liothyronine) which is thyroid hormone.


The simplest answer is to restore your body's core metabolic system (thyroid, mitochondria).


Imo there's more efficient options for dealing with kratom WD (and preventing future relapse)... and more efficient ways to taper of Klonopin than Gabapentin, which has it's own issues.

1) What does caffeine being a metabolic enhancer have to do with it being a strong stimulant? I mean isn't it generally good if something speeds up your metabolism? Or are you saying it slows it down?

2) What are some ways to restore your body's metabolic system?

3) What ways do you think are good for dealing with Kratom WD and preventing future relapse? Cause I mean I don't actually want to stop at all so I wouldn't call it "relapsing" when I use with the exception of periods where I want to take a break but have trouble getting myself to (right now is one of them). But what really helps me avoid Kratom when I actually want to is taking Naltrexone cause you literally can't get high off Kratom when on that and I have a prescription for it. Of course, when I actually want to use Kratom I stop taking it.

4) To be clear, I'm pretty sure my doctor isn't talking about tapering me with the use of Gabapentin but rather slowly tapering my Klonopin AND THEN replacing it with Gabapentin for my anxiety, but I could be wrong and he could be thinking of slowly tapering the Klonopin while slowly introducing the Gabapentin (I think I'd actually prefer that).

But what ways do you think are better for tapering Klonopin/replacing Klonopin than Gabapentin or Pregablin (cause he's also considering that but says he slightly prefers Gabapentin)?

Cause I'm gonna let you know now, I have pretty extreme anxiety (hence why I take this stuff lol) and even though I want to know your opinion I'm probably going to start worrying that my doctor is fucking up or something.

But my doctor says he has tapered hundreds of people off benzos, so I truly believe I can trust him. There is always more than one way to do this kind of thing obviously.

5) And while I am probably also going to start worrying here, what problems does Gabapentin come with?

Cause obviously there's literally no drug out there, prescribed or otherwise, that doesn't come with problems and side effects, which I'm sure you know, but my doctor says that Gabapentin doesn't have a strong link to dementia, which benzos do, and that that is one of the reasons he likes to use it, and internet searches seem to confirm that this is true. Another reason he wants to use it to replace Klonopin is that he thinks it will work well for my anxiety.

These kinds of conversations with people on bluelight always get me anxious cause I get worried that my doctor might not know as well as certain people on here, and while most people would automatically assume a doctor always knows more about this stuff than random people, I don't. I know that doctors have blind spots and that this forum actually has a lot of very knowledgable people. That being said, my doctor is certainly a veteran at doing this, and so far he's been a good doctor, so I do in fact believe that what he is suggesting will work even if there might be other methods which COULD POTENTIALLY be better.