Kratom How much do benzos help for plain leaf and REGULAR extract WD?

[Justlookingforinfo]

Caffeine may have an effect on metabolism but that doesn't mean I'm using it for that reason. If I am it certainly isn't intentional. I only like the very first initial buzz and wake up effect but beyond that first cup it just exacerbates my anxiety. I don't really think that you can make a blanket statement about people enjoying caffeine because of underactive metabolic system since it's literally the single most popular mind altering drug on planet earth (some wouldn't consider it mind altering but I do). People use it because it helps them wake up and they don't like being tired and then they get addicted.

Maybe some small percentage uses it the way you are talking about, but again, I don't, and I don't think my metabolism is really probably very different from a man my age and size cause I'm pretty average in terms of my fat percentage and the amount I eat.

What would I pair it with to help with the negative effects? L-Theanine? I've tried that and it didn't seem to do much but it's been years so I guess I could try again. When I take Kratom they pair well but I don't always take Kratom cause I don't like the dependency so I'm frequently cycling off and back on.

How do you think I could "use it more appropriately" (other than simply drinking less which I should do but can never seem to maintain)? I know I was better when I drank black tea instead of coffee and i'd like to get back to that but it's hard.

I'm not trying to start anything or stir up any trouble but I honestly do feel like your question and experiences were taken and the others twisted them around to what they wanted them to say. I absolutely did not, reading your initial post, take it anything like the others and especially to go as far as suggesting you have a medical condition and you are using it to "jump start your metabolism?" Just wow people really need to learn to be a bit nicer and not act like doctors when you don't know the whole story. I read the same things others did but I definitely didn't get any of the things from it they did then they imply you have a medical condition? LMAO that's just insane to read something from a post that's not even remotely close to the posts meaning. SMH

 

[Justlookingforinfo]

Because of how caffeine works to boost thyroid function (aka boosts the metabolic engine). This is why I described it as "caffeine is kick-starting your metabolic engine". Caffeine will accelerate the engine (which provides relief) but will cause a crash & anxiety if the engine has issues and/or lacks fuel (glucose, carbs).


From your earlier post:



I'd interpret it as self-medication for therapeutic purposes. Many people use caffeine for the exact same reason as you.


I'm just suggesting that you're using caffeine as a supportive metabolic booster, but you're using it inappropriately which is causing the negative effects.


Usually it's people with an underactive metabolic system who will enjoy caffeine. But people with an overactive metabolic system might also like caffeine.


Why don't you try pairing it with something to prevent it's negative effects? This is usually what people do to make their caffeine use sustainable.


I posted it to give an overview of things and as a reference point.

But you and others were reading into his post things he didn't even imply in the first place. I seen nothing to suggest anything others were spinning. None of you asked, you acted like it was facts. Sad fr

 

[Allylbenzene]

But you ... were reading into his post things he didn't even imply in the first place. I seen nothing to suggest anything others were spinning.

It's fairly straightforward to discern what's going on with his caffeine/klonopin/anxiety scenario if you've got an understanding of how caffeine, klonopin and the thyroid (metabolic system) works.

...suggesting you have a medical condition and you are using caffeine to "jump start your metabolism?

caffeine...I can't wake up without it, ... it's pretty hard for me to imagine being able to live without drinking ANY coffee or tea.

I do NOT enjoy caffeine's effect beyond the very first initial boost it gives me to wake up in the morning

I don't think I can quit caffeine entirely and I'm not sure I want to

None of you asked, you acted like it was facts.

He already explain his experience (multiple times) but you can see from his replies that he's not really aware of the underlying things, he says that it's "just a caffeine addiction" and "just a klonopin addiction" and "just a kratom addiction" which from my perspective are superficial interpretations of what's happening. I mean fair enough, those are totally valid statements but then what?

 

[Justlookingforinfo]

It's fairly straightforward to discern what's going on with his caffeine/klonopin/anxiety scenario if you've got an understanding of how caffeine, klonopin and the thyroid (metabolic system) works.

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He already explain his experience (multiple times) but you can see from his replies that he's not really aware of the underlying things, it's "just a caffeine addiction" and "just a klonopin addiction" and "just a kratom addiction" which are all superficial interpretations of what's happening. I mean fair enough, those are totally valid statements but then what?

I just meant that it had nothing to do with his thyroid and he said he didn't fast very often and he didn't fast to lose weight so I just felt like more than 1 person made it their own interpretation that it never was. I understand what he's not seeing as well but he did acknowledge the Klonopin was because of the caffeine usage. I don't disagree with you at all. I just don't think we should jump to conclusions like it's his thyroid, he's using it to jump start his metabolism, he's got hypothyroidism and stuff like that. We don't even know for sure he has a caffeine addiction. I can sometimes take 400 mg caffeine pills every 4 hours for 2 days so say 8 times in a row and then not take any for a week. He even said he wanted to try and get off Klonopin and try gabapentin or Lyrica. To me that's a huge question mark. Is it an addiction if he's willing to try none controlled substances? I have experience with benzos because I was on them for years and being willing to try and get off isn't something an addict will be willing to try. He said he already talked to his psychiatrist and he was going to taper off the Klonopin slowly when the time came and get on a gabapentanoid. That doesn't sound like an addict to me. That sounds like someone who had questions about things but at least is trying to figure out better things for themselves. It feels like that statement was purposely ignored he said about getting off Klonopin

 

[Justlookingforinfo]

It's fairly straightforward to discern what's going on with his caffeine/klonopin/anxiety scenario if you've got an understanding of how caffeine, klonopin and the thyroid (metabolic system) works.

​

​

​

​

He already explain his experience (multiple times) but you can see from his replies that he's not really aware of the underlying things, it's "just a caffeine addiction" and "just a klonopin addiction" and "just a kratom addiction" which are all superficial interpretations of what's happening. I mean fair enough, those are totally valid statements but then what?

And I read everything but I have hypothyroidism and gastroparesis. I don't see where you are getting he's got thyroid problems from especially when he said he didn't. I don't know where you got it from because I do understand it quit well because I live with it because I had thyroid cancer so no I don't agree with you I see anything that indicates he has a thyroid issue especially when he said he didn't. Did you take the time to read everything or pick and choose to suit your narrative because it appears the latter is what you did

 

[Allylbenzene]

I just meant that it had nothing to do with his thyroid

Fundamentally it would involve the metabolic system as a whole (thyroid, mitochondria, liver). Caffeine is used to "wake up" and boost the metabolic "engine" which helps when it isn't working properly which he repeatedly indicates in his posts.

I don't see anything that indicates he has a thyroid issue especially when he said he didn't.

It's not unusual for people to overlook the role that the metabolic system plays in their situation. It's very common imo. People want to treat the habitual drug use but overlook the fundamental metabolic-related issues that are involved. They want to repair their opioid system but never consider repairing the thyroid system or mitochondrial system.

...but he did acknowledge the Klonopin was because of the caffeine usage.

Yes for sure. From my understanding caffeine is a powerful metabolic booster. For susceptible people it will trigger a stress response (ie adrenaline, anxiety). This will lead to the use of a GABAergic to calm the adrenaline-stress effects. Usually people combine caffeine with theanine which does the same job (theanine blocks stress) and some glucose which also "lowers" stress.

Is it an addiction if he's willing to try none controlled substances?

Iirc he called it a caffeine/kratom "addiction" whereas I see it as habitual self-medication which has different connotations. If you ask yourself what are they self-medicating for? then this can give some clues on what's going on.

That doesn't sound like an addict to me. That sounds like someone who had questions about things but at least is trying to figure out better things for themselves.

I don't see it as an addiction at all.

 

[Justlookingforinfo]

Fundamentally it would involve the metabolic system as a whole (thyroid, mitochondria, liver). Caffeine is used to "wake up" and boost the metabolic "engine" which helps when it isn't working properly which he repeatedly indicates in his posts.


It's not unusual for people to overlook the role that the metabolic system plays in their situation. It's very common imo. People want to treat the habitual drug use but overlook the fundamental metabolic-related issues that are involved. They want to repair their opioid system but never consider repairing the thyroid system or mitochondrial system.


Yes for sure. From my understanding caffeine is a powerful metabolic booster. For susceptible people it will trigger a stress response (ie adrenaline, anxiety). This will lead to the use of a GABAergic to calm the adrenaline-stress effects. Usually people combine caffeine with theanine which does the same job (theanine blocks stress) and some glucose which also "lowers" stress.


Iirc he called it a caffeine/kratom "addiction" whereas I see it as habitual self-medication which has different connotations. If you ask yourself what are they self-medicating for? then this can give some clues on what's going on.


I don't see it as an addiction at all.

So what problem do you think he's having with his metabolic system if he's not using opioids? He said he has been tested for thyroid issues, he doesn't fast to lose weight and unless I'm misunderstanding Kratom isn't an opioid or is it? I had never heard of it before I joined this site so I could be misunderstanding that part but if it's not and he only uses caffeine in the mornings maybe he's not self medicating. Especially if his psychiatrist is aware of the usage as he stated. I mean we only know part of the story so my only point is we should consider everything he said. I've never done any illegal drugs and I came on this site to find out how to potentiate my opioids because I have bad chronic pain, the gastroparesis, and so I'm still learning even though I had to make another account more recently because I couldn't sign into my first for some reason and I've learned so much in the 3 years give or take I've been on here and I appreciate you clarifying that you don't see it as an addiction because people could easily look at the meds I'm on and say addict if they didn't know my story and that I do my best to only take my meds like I'm supposed to. I don't even get high or euphoria off opioids. Which I'm thankful for. They just help my pain and sometimes I have to take 2 Tylenol 4 if it's really bad but I do my best not to unless I have to. Thank you very much for clarifying everything I misunderstood and I apologize for anything I misunderstood

 

[Allylbenzene]

So what problem do you think he's having with his metabolic system...?

I don't know specifically since any aspect of his metabolic system could be having issues (eg thyroid or mitochondria or liver).

He said he has been tested for thyroid issues

Doctors can test the thyroid but not mitochondrial function which is equally relevant (both are part of the wider metabolic system). And even the thyroid tests are unreliable for various reasons.

...unless I'm misunderstanding Kratom isn't an opioid or is it?

Kratom contains a few active alkaloids with several properties including activating the mu-opioid receptor, blocking the kappa-opioid receptor, blocking a serotonin receptor and some pro-dopamine, pro-cannabinoid and adrenergic effects (adrenergic as in blocking adrenaline).

Imo people self-medicate with kratom for it's opioid–dopamine, anti-serotonin and calming cannabinoid/anti-adrenaline effects.
— with caffeine for it's pro-dopamine, anti-serotonin and pseudo metabolic boosting/energising effects.
— with klonopin for it's anti-stress, anti-adrenaline, anti-glutamate, anti-cortisol effects (GABA calms all of those things).

If caffeine is used in a way that destabilises the metabolic system which spikes stress, adrenaline, glutamate and cortisol then Klonopin is the perfect solution, and Kratom is very helpful also.

...and he only uses caffeine in the mornings maybe he's not self medicating.

I'd interpret self-medicating as habitually using a psychoactive (or "generally" active) substance to help with a symptom. Here it's caffeine for waking up (and Klonopin + kratom for managing the rest):

Mycophile said:
caffeine...I can't wake up without it, ... it's pretty hard for me to imagine being able to live without drinking ANY coffee or tea.
...
I do NOT enjoy caffeine's effect beyond the very first initial boost it gives me to wake up in the morning
...
I don't think I can quit caffeine entirely and I'm not sure I want to

I mean we only know part of the story so my only point is we should consider everything he said.

I have yes. He made some clear comments on his symptoms and the substances he uses and why he uses them.

I've never done any illegal drugs and I came on this site to find out how to potentiate my opioids because I have bad chronic pain ... I appreciate you clarifying that you don't see it as an addiction because people could easily look at the meds I'm on and say addict if they didn't know my story and that I do my best to only take my meds like I'm supposed to.

Yes I think most people overlook the connotations of the word "addiction" and fail to acknowledge the self-medication aspect of drug use. This stereotyping and misconception taints many drug recovery services and undermines their long-term success of preventing relapse since the underlying metabolic issues were never resolved (so relapse is more likely to occur).

Opioid medications can be tricky. They have some properties which cause hyperalgesia meaning increased sensitivity to pain. The drug called Naloxone blocks this hyperalgesia effect which partly explains why it's helpful for opioid use.

Thank you very much for clarifying everything I misunderstood and I apologize for anything I misunderstood

It's good you made that post earlier in response to mine because I'd "unwatched" this thread days ago as I couldn't see how to constructively outline my perspective. In hindsight my original posts were kinda hasty and assumptive but I calmed it down eventually.

 

[Justlookingforinfo]

I don't know specifically since any aspect of his metabolic system could be having issues (eg thyroid or mitochondria or liver).


Doctors can test the thyroid but not mitochondrial function which is equally relevant (both are part of the wider metabolic system). And even the thyroid tests are unreliable for various reasons.


Kratom contains a few active alkaloids with several properties including activating the mu-opioid receptor, blocking the kappa-opioid receptor, blocking a serotonin receptor and some pro-dopamine, pro-cannabinoid and adrenergic effects (adrenergic as in blocking adrenaline).

Imo people self-medicate with kratom for it's opioid–dopamine, anti-serotonin and calming cannabinoid/anti-adrenaline effects.


I'd interpret self-medicating as habitually using a psychoactive (or "generally" active) substance to help with a symptom. Here it's caffeine for waking up.



I have yes. He made some clear comments on his symptoms and the substances he uses and why he uses them.


Yes I think most people overlook the connotations of the word "addiction" and fail to acknowledge the self-medication aspect of drug use. This stereotyping and misconception taints many drug recovery services and undermines their long-term success of preventing relapse since the underlying metabolic issues was never resolved (so relapse is more likely to occur).

Opioid medications can be tricky. They have some properties which cause hyperalgesia meaning increased sensitivity to pain. The drug called Naloxone blocks this hyperalgesia effect which partly explains why it's helpful for opioid use.


It's good you made that post earlier in response to mine because I'd "unwatched" this thread days ago as I couldn't see how to constructively outline my perspective. In hindsight my original posts were kinda hasty and assumptive but I calmed it down eventually.

Well I appreciate all the information that you shared with me and letting me know what Kratom was. And I never thought about it could be something to do with other metabolic parts That's true too. And I definitely see where you're coming from with self-medicating it's kind of a 50-50 I guess with that person's story. I mean I guess if they're using that Kratom that actually kind of speaks for itself. I had no idea what it was and so that's why I appreciate you sharing the information of what it is exactly. Is it illegal to have or is it considered something you could decide grow in your own yard or something like that I mean I'm just curious cuz I literally never heard of it before I was on this site. Of course I heard of other drugs that people use but that one I've never heard of even when I was in psychiatric facilities that were dual diagnosis. And you said most people use it and that hits the same receptors as opioids and it also helps with serotonin which is usually what people supposedly lack when they're depressed? I mean I know now new studies have came out and said all that was BS because there's people that have normal serotonin levels that are depressed and people that have very low serotonin levels that are not depressed at all, so all that went out the window a couple of years ago. I just started taking Lyrica to try to help with my gastroparesis pain recently and reading everything on here is kind of scary considering the withdrawals that people say they had when they got off of it but I am being prescribed it by a doctor and they wouldn't just take me off of it without tapering me down. But it's kind of scary to read how many people use it and then they use it recreationally and they find out the hard way that they should have never messed with it. And it's so interesting how one medication affects one person and another one can affect someone totally different. I've learned so much from this site and I'm glad I made the post to and I get what you're saying a lot better now and I think that that guy was frustrated too although the Kratom is probably not helping his situation at all And I wonder if his psychiatrist knows about that because they should know everything that you're taking even if you're self-medicating and I would consider that self medication. I mean I admit me taking caffeine is self-medicating but at the same time I don't do it all the time just sometimes and especially if I'm having really bad pain to help enhance the codeine that I take. I'm hoping the Lyrica will also do the same thing. I'm not finding too much about if a potentiates opioids or not especially codeine in particular. Would you have any idea about that or anywhere I could look into it at cuz I typed it in and I can't seem to find specific information on that combination alone. So if you would have an idea I would really appreciate it. Thank you for your response and thanks for understanding and I understand better what you mean now and you're really nice and I appreciate it. God bless you

 

[lost weekend]

I'm not trying to start anything or stir up any trouble but I honestly do feel like your question and experiences were taken and the others twisted them around to what they wanted them to say. I absolutely did not, reading your initial post, take it anything like the others and especially to go as far as suggesting you have a medical condition and you are using it to "jump start your metabolism?" Just wow people really need to learn to be a bit nicer and not act like doctors when you don't know the whole story. I read the same things others did but I definitely didn't get any of the things from it they did then they imply you have a medical condition? LMAO that's just insane to read something from a post that's not even remotely close to the posts meaning. SMH

I agree, I can only pass on my own experiences which judging by other posts are dissimilar. Maybe the confusion in replies is due to the fact 2 types of medication are involved and both are being tapered or at least 1 is being stopped completely .

 

[Allylbenzene]

I had no idea what it was and so that's why I appreciate you sharing the information of what it is exactly. Is it illegal to have or is it considered something you could decide grow in your own yard

Kratom is part of traditional medicine in Thailand I think so it's a tropical plant. Then it got introduced and popularised in America, Europe etc and drug laws eventually got applied to it. You could probably grow it in warmer areas.

And you said most people use it and that hits the same receptors as opioids

It activates the "popular" opioid receptor and blocks the "less popular" one.

and it also helps with serotonin which is usually what people supposedly lack when they're depressed? I mean I know now new studies have came out and said all that was BS because there's people that have normal serotonin levels that are depressed and people that have very low serotonin levels that are not depressed at all, so all that went out the window a couple of years ago.

Good that you're aware of this. Yes the traditional serotonin theory is based on several misconceptions imo. Afaik the most popular anti-serotonin things would be caffeine, nicotine, amphetamine, cyproheptadine, kratom, mirtazapine, propranolol and any drug that predominantly boosts dopamine.

...to help enhance the codeine that I take. I'm hoping the Lyrica will also do the same thing. I'm not finding too much about if a potentiates opioids or not especially codeine in particular. Would you have any idea about that

It looks like Lyrica (pregabalin) reduces levels of excitatory things (like glutamate, noradrenaline). This seems like it would complement the effects of codeine. Since your doctor prescribed it they probably had their reasons for choosing it.

 

[joshuasorenstrem]

Are you currently using 3,4,_MDMA?

 

[lost weekend]

Kratom is part of traditional medicine in Thailand I think so it's a tropical plant. Then it got introduced and popularised in America, Europe etc and drug laws eventually got applied to it. You could probably grow it in warmer areas.


It activates the "popular" opioid receptor and blocks the "less popular" one.


Good that you're aware of this. Yes the traditional serotonin theory is based on several misconceptions imo. Afaik the most popular anti-serotonin things would be caffeine, nicotine, amphetamine, cyproheptadine, kratom, mirtazapine, propranolol and any drug that predominantly boosts dopamine.


It looks like Lyrica (pregabalin) reduces levels of excitatory things (like glutamate, noradrenaline). This seems like it would complement the effects of codeine. Since your doctor prescribed it they probably had their reasons for choosing it.

Been to phucket many times since it has no longer been illegal, for a long term user it's now the only place we can go annually, which is great because its a wonderful country
Been lucky enough to have been invited to almost help myself from private trees although I always pay.
Nearly all the security guards and taxi drivers keep bunched leaves either in their pocket or blended in fruit drinks in taxi.
The leaves are vivid green and stay that way for along time after being picked
It's almost like cocaine the way it numbs your lips and hits hard and fast.
I prefer the bottled solution ,it's sweet ,contains no plant matter and is more mellow and lasts longer although I have no idea of the bottled ingredients except it contains Gra Thom pronounced ga Thom
Asking for kratom will get you no where fast

 

[lost weekend]

I would love to know if anyone on bluelight has actually managed to nurse a kratom plant into maturity

 

[Mycophile]

It's fairly straightforward to discern what's going on with his caffeine/klonopin/anxiety scenario if you've got an understanding of how caffeine, klonopin and the thyroid (metabolic system) works.







He already explain his experience (multiple times) but you can see from his replies that he's not really aware of the underlying things, he says that it's "just a caffeine addiction" and "just a klonopin addiction" and "just a kratom addiction" which from my perspective are superficial interpretations of what's happening. I mean fair enough, those are totally valid statements but then what?

Dude, I actually am getting pretty annoyed. You can think I have metabolic problems if you want, but that doesn't make it true. Why have I never been diagnosed with them? I recently had full bloodwork done.

I have mental, emotional, and also neurologicial reasons for why I use certain drugs I use. Do you know anything about nonverbal learning disability as a neurdivergent disorder (sometimes linked to Aspergers, though they are NOT the same) and how it can lead to anxiety and depression and OCD? Probably not. You are INSISTING that I have metabolic problems, and while I don't think you mean to be annoying, I am finding it annoying. Please stop or I'm going to stop reading your posts.

But...edited to add, I have to know why you incorrectly think my thyroid isn't working properly, and also, what do you think I just am totally unconscious of it being that way and have been using too much caffeine for 25 years to make up for a problem I don't even know I have?! It's COMPLETE BULLSHIT and while I'm sure you probably do know certain things about medicine, are you a doctor? I doubt it. I think you are just enjoying playing online-armchair doctor. You can't diagnose someone you don't know from a couple random posts on the internet.

And if my thyroid weren't working properly then 1) when did that start? Cause I started to get really into caffeine and go overboard with it around 21-22 and I was lean as hell and had at no point been overweight at that time 2) why is it that when I first drank so much caffeine that I had a panic attack and needed to be put on Klonopin back at age 23 that I WAS NOT AT THAT TIME GENERALLY TIRED OR DEPRESSED and only have experienced more fatigue and depression since I got on Klonopin and got older and acquired messed up sleep habits and regrets that make me hate my life? Cause at 23 and earlier I had anxiety and OCD but I wasn't overly fatigued nor was I fat (and also I am not and never have been prone to cold spells or have thinning hair)? 3) why have I generally been a fairly decent weight throughout my life (except during periods of heavy drinking)? 4) I am really getting sick of this, and it's actually pissing me off, but give me some kind of further explanation to why you really BELIEVE you know this about me for sure and also why you are entirely disregarding my actual diagnoses that I am telling you about that ACTUAL doctors know about? What are your ACTUAL MEDICAL CREDENTIALS in real life that you believe you can diagnose me over the internet?

You can tell me that shit, and I'm honestly probably going to start to get more annoyed, then I'll tell you why you are wrong, and beyond that point, I'll ask you to please leave me alone. If not, I'll be done reading your posts entirely after that point. I think it's been years since I've blocked anyone on here, but you're proving to be quite arrogant with your insistence that you know things about me that you simply can't and don't know.

And, just to play devil's advocate are there any tests I can get run that are relatively inexpensive if I want to prove you wrong here? If so, I would consider doing them. And under the VERY rare chance you are right here, what do doctors prescribe for an under-active thyroid? Cause I really believe you are incorrect, but I'd like to be able to prove it.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm not trying to start anything or stir up any trouble but I honestly do feel like your question and experiences were taken and the others twisted them around to what they wanted them to say. I absolutely did not, reading your initial post, take it anything like the others and especially to go as far as suggesting you have a medical condition and you are using it to "jump start your metabolism?" Just wow people really need to learn to be a bit nicer and not act like doctors when you don't know the whole story. I read the same things others did but I definitely didn't get any of the things from it they did then they imply you have a medical condition? LMAO that's just insane to read something from a post that's not even remotely close to the posts meaning. SMH

Yeah, to be honest, I'm finding it fucking annoying.

 

[Mycophile]

I just meant that it had nothing to do with his thyroid and he said he didn't fast very often and he didn't fast to lose weight so I just felt like more than 1 person made it their own interpretation that it never was. I understand what he's not seeing as well but he did acknowledge the Klonopin was because of the caffeine usage. I don't disagree with you at all. I just don't think we should jump to conclusions like it's his thyroid, he's using it to jump start his metabolism, he's got hypothyroidism and stuff like that. We don't even know for sure he has a caffeine addiction. I can sometimes take 400 mg caffeine pills every 4 hours for 2 days so say 8 times in a row and then not take any for a week. He even said he wanted to try and get off Klonopin and try gabapentin or Lyrica. To me that's a huge question mark. Is it an addiction if he's willing to try none controlled substances? I have experience with benzos because I was on them for years and being willing to try and get off isn't something an addict will be willing to try. He said he already talked to his psychiatrist and he was going to taper off the Klonopin slowly when the time came and get on a gabapentanoid. That doesn't sound like an addict to me. That sounds like someone who had questions about things but at least is trying to figure out better things for themselves. It feels like that statement was purposely ignored he said about getting off Klonopin

Alleybenzene: READ THIS, and maybe kind of back off a bit. I know you mean well, but it's getting annoying. You aren't my doctor. I've got a psychiatrist, a therapist, a GP, and a bunch of other doctors. I'm good there.

This is getting very tiring, but I have something called nonverbal learning disability which has now had its name changed to something like developmental visual spatial disorder. I've been officially diagnosed and have also been told it's what directly led to my having OCD, anxiety, and depression.

At age 14 I got on prozac because of social anxiety. Around age 19 I got into drinking caffeine. It was fine for a few years, but then I got this weird OCD-type ritual around it. I felt like, for some reason, I had to have a certain number of cups. I can't explain it. It was an obsession with numbers, and I still have this problem with being fixated with this idea that I need 3 cups before 5:00pm (yes, I stay up very late) or else I'll be too tired, but if I have it after that I'll be too awake to sleep. Caffeine exacerbates anxiety and OCD symptoms, then Klonopin helps with them but makes me tired, so its circular, and i actually have this weird phobia about being tired. No like tired from exercise, but sleepy (unless its bed time) and I'm kind of obsessive compulsive about how much sleep I get and think too much about my sleep and sometimes use too much Klonopin and Melatonin to put me out cause I'm an overthinker and my brain won't shut up.

So at 23 I had 5 cups of coffee before an important social event without realizing how bad an idea it was. I was then in public with some guys I respected and had a MASSIVE panic attack which was entirely caused by caffeine with the underlying issues. That led to me getting on and being addicted to Klonopin for the last 22 years. It fucking sucks. If only my doctors and I had realized at the time that I just needed to either quit coffee or at least not have 5 fucking cups in a sitting then I'd never have gotten addicted to Klonopin in the first place, but maybe I'm going to be told I thought I needed those 5 cups because of my metabolism which, I will assure you, was quite a bit faster at 23 than it is now at 45. Still, I am 5'7 and muscular with just a little fat and weigh 180lbs. Not exactly super obese.

This is kind of personal info but whatever, I didn't choose to have this shit and no one really knows who I am and this is just how I am. But NO, I do not believe it has jack shit to do with my metabolism.

 

[Mycophile]

Are you currently using 3,4,_MDMA?

I don't even know what that is. Nothing MDMA related works for me cause I'm on prozac.

 

[Mycophile]

Fundamentally it would involve the metabolic system as a whole (thyroid, mitochondria, liver). Caffeine is used to "wake up" and boost the metabolic "engine" which helps when it isn't working properly which he repeatedly indicates in his posts.


It's not unusual for people to overlook the role that the metabolic system plays in their situation. It's very common imo. People want to treat the habitual drug use but overlook the fundamental metabolic-related issues that are involved. They want to repair their opioid system but never consider repairing the thyroid system or mitochondrial system.


Yes for sure. From my understanding caffeine is a powerful metabolic booster. For susceptible people it will trigger a stress response (ie adrenaline, anxiety). This will lead to the use of a GABAergic to calm the adrenaline-stress effects. Usually people combine caffeine with theanine which does the same job (theanine blocks stress) and some glucose which also "lowers" stress.


Iirc he called it a caffeine/kratom "addiction" whereas I see it as habitual self-medication which has different connotations. If you ask yourself what are they self-medicating for? then this can give some clues on what's going on.


I don't see it as an addiction at all.

I'm self medicating for nonverbal learning disability, anxiety, OCD and depression.

 

[Mycophile]

Well I appreciate all the information that you shared with me and letting me know what Kratom was. And I never thought about it could be something to do with other metabolic parts That's true too. And I definitely see where you're coming from with self-medicating it's kind of a 50-50 I guess with that person's story. I mean I guess if they're using that Kratom that actually kind of speaks for itself. I had no idea what it was and so that's why I appreciate you sharing the information of what it is exactly. Is it illegal to have or is it considered something you could decide grow in your own yard or something like that I mean I'm just curious cuz I literally never heard of it before I was on this site. Of course I heard of other drugs that people use but that one I've never heard of even when I was in psychiatric facilities that were dual diagnosis. And you said most people use it and that hits the same receptors as opioids and it also helps with serotonin which is usually what people supposedly lack when they're depressed? I mean I know now new studies have came out and said all that was BS because there's people that have normal serotonin levels that are depressed and people that have very low serotonin levels that are not depressed at all, so all that went out the window a couple of years ago. I just started taking Lyrica to try to help with my gastroparesis pain recently and reading everything on here is kind of scary considering the withdrawals that people say they had when they got off of it but I am being prescribed it by a doctor and they wouldn't just take me off of it without tapering me down. But it's kind of scary to read how many people use it and then they use it recreationally and they find out the hard way that they should have never messed with it. And it's so interesting how one medication affects one person and another one can affect someone totally different. I've learned so much from this site and I'm glad I made the post to and I get what you're saying a lot better now and I think that that guy was frustrated too although the Kratom is probably not helping his situation at all And I wonder if his psychiatrist knows about that because they should know everything that you're taking even if you're self-medicating and I would consider that self medication. I mean I admit me taking caffeine is self-medicating but at the same time I don't do it all the time just sometimes and especially if I'm having really bad pain to help enhance the codeine that I take. I'm hoping the Lyrica will also do the same thing. I'm not finding too much about if a potentiates opioids or not especially codeine in particular. Would you have any idea about that or anywhere I could look into it at cuz I typed it in and I can't seem to find specific information on that combination alone. So if you would have an idea I would really appreciate it. Thank you for your response and thanks for understanding and I understand better what you mean now and you're really nice and I appreciate it. God bless you

No, I don't and will not tell my psychiatrist about my Kratom use. Too dangerous and too easy to be labeled an addict.

Honestly, I often need more Kratom to calm me down because of how bad the caffeine fucks with my OCD and anxiety, and I've repeatedly tried to quit caffeine but now I think the biggest reason I can't is because the Klonopin makes me tired. Two different doctors have confirmed that this is generally the case and that i need to try to stop both at the same time. I hope I can eventually succeed.