Opioids Opioid Tolerance Reduction Project Using Supplements(Experimental)

[bookshelf1]

Just FYI:

Long term use of blackseed oil is associated with serotonin syndrome when combined with opioids. There are many documented cases of people who take blackseed oil daily then experience serotonin syndrome in the hospital when given opioids during or postoperative surgery.

thankyou for your report.thats considerable.
i searched about the subject you mentioned,the most related one was this one:

Black Seed Oil and Perioperative Serotonin Syndrome: A Case Report - PubMed

Perioperative serotonin syndrome has been associated with a number of medications and herbal supplements. We report a patient who developed serotonin syndrome immediately after an endoscopic procedure in which the preoperative use of black seed oil appears to have played a role in stimulating...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the article says patients were taking antidepressants (eg, fluoxetine or amitriptyline),,,. He also was taking pantoprazole, oxycodone, and sumatriptan and gabapentin.
although there was an interval between medications and occurring serotonin syndrome.and the case is rare.
the article says there are numerous reports about patients taking supplements that develop serotonin syndrome.but they aren't all about blackseed.the case study had one patient only who was using antidepressant and it was oil form of blackseed the patient used(600mg a day).i am not using oil in my experimental method altough i am using blackseed a lot more than that(around 12 grams a day) and hopefully nothing bad happend yet its been a long time i am using it(around 2 months).
there are other studies but they didn't talk about blackseed and serotonin syndrome in patients.they just suggested some mechanism about how it may affect serotonin system.
anyway thankyou for noting it.i will be more cautious about blackseed usage.

I'm on methadone, drink every now and then and have been feeling my dose not holding me as well. Overall I have just been feeling rough but because of this thread I thought to take a multivitamin with my methadone the last two days and have felt great. 100% better.

I know alcohol can make your body metabolize methadone faster but I believe this post does have value because alcohol and opiates cause vitamin decency. Opiates specifically because they hamper gut mobility and nutrient absorption so taking supplements has been beneficial to me in the past with frequent doses of an opioid.

finally someone used my method....thank you
people think too much about how the method is working.i just use methods because they do something.

 

[negrogesic]

Just FYI:

Long term use of blackseed oil is associated with serotonin syndrome when combined with opioids. There are many documented cases of people who take blackseed oil daily then experience serotonin syndrome in the hospital when given opioids during or postoperative surgery.

Many documented cases is quite a bit of an exaggeration since there really aren't many documented cases. In fact I believe there is only one documented case that occured after surgery, and if you read the full-text you'll see it is a major leap to assume it was the black seed oil (the conclusion was, "might have been the black seed oil" despite a host of other drugs the patient was taking).

Black seed oil is a widely consumed nutritional supplement, often by people who take other medications (like serotonergic antidepressants). If black seed oil had any appreciable risk of inducing serotonin syndrome we'd see alot more cases than that one very questionable case report.

 

[negrogesic]

thankyou for your report.thats considerable.
i searched about the subject you mentioned,the most related one was this one:

Black Seed Oil and Perioperative Serotonin Syndrome: A Case Report - PubMed

Perioperative serotonin syndrome has been associated with a number of medications and herbal supplements. We report a patient who developed serotonin syndrome immediately after an endoscopic procedure in which the preoperative use of black seed oil appears to have played a role in stimulating...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the article says patients were taking antidepressants (eg, fluoxetine or amitriptyline),,,. He also was taking pantoprazole, oxycodone, and sumatriptan and gabapentin.
although there was an interval between medications and occurring serotonin syndrome.and the case is rare.
the article says there are numerous reports about patients taking supplements that develop serotonin syndrome.but they aren't all about blackseed.the case study had one patient only which was using antidepressant and it was oil form of blackseed the patient used(600mg a day).i am not using oil in my experimental method altough i am using blackseed a lot more than that(around 12 grams a day) and hopefully nothing bad happend yet its been a long time i am using it(around 2 months).
there are other studies but they didn't talk about blackseed and serotonin syndrome in patients.they just suggested some mechanism about how it may affect serotonin system.
anyway thankyou for noting it.i will be more cautious about blackseed usage.


finally someone used my method....thank you
people think too much about how the method is working.i just use methods because they do something.

Yeah that was the precise case report that I was remembering. He was taking a host of drugs, yet they suggested..."but maybe it was the blackseed oil", without offering evidence.

Blackseed oil can increase 5-HT plasma levels and slow turnover, but the effect should be very minor at the doses used by most people and of clinically relevant.

 

[Jabberwocky]

@negrogesic I am admittedly paranoid about such things. Ashwagandha fucked me up so much that I was repeatedly initiating SS from basically everything afterwards. That whole experience was awful. I try to warn people about ashwagandha, but people think it's harmlesss because it's sold as a "supplement" and is in so many random products. I was taking very high doses, though.... but well under the 4g limit the internet says is safe.

 

[bookshelf1]

@negrogesic I am admittedly paranoid about such things. Ashwagandha fucked me up so much that I was repeatedly initiating SS from basically everything afterwards. That whole experience was awful. I try to warn people about ashwagandha, but people think it's harmlesss because it's sold as a "supplement" and is in so many random products. I was taking very high doses, though.... but well under the 4g limit the internet says is safe.

oh really?i wanted to try it.good to see you here.what kind of problem it makes? do you mean supplements when you say SS?

 

[Jabberwocky]

oh really?i wanted to try it.good to see you here.what kind of problem it makes? do you mean supplements when you say SS?

Serotonin syndrome

Ashwagandha raises serotonin levels, and at high doses it can do it dangerously.

Ashwagandha has an awful SSRI like withdrawal if you take it long term as well. I had brain zaps for 2 months.

 

[bookshelf1]

Serotonin syndrome

Ashwagandha raises serotonin levels, and at high doses it can do it dangerously.

Ashwagandha has an awful SSRI like withdrawal if you take it long term as well. I had brain zaps for 2 months.

oh shit....
can you tell me the story of how it felt having serotonin syndrome?does it make you happier if serotonin is a lot?i thought maybe ss makes us very happy and then we go insane.

 

[Jabberwocky]

oh shit....
can you tell me the story of how it felt having serotonin syndrome?does it make you happier if serotonin is a lot?i thought maybe ss makes us very happy and then we go insane.

No serotonin syndrome is one of the worst experience I've ever had. It does not make you happy... it made me extremely agitated, uncomfortable, confused, anxious. Tremors, tachycardia, spasms, hyperthermia, hallucinations, I eventually went to the emergency room. And I was only having clinically mild symptoms, it gets way worse than that.

 

[bookshelf1]

i found a new thing after using coenzyme q10, i think it has some empathogenic properties when used in combination of naproxen or other NSAID...i actually wanted to hug my father couple minutes ago...i think if i use it on higher doses it will act like a weak ecstasy
i hope after posting this new comment here and raising this thread there won't be another guy questioning the entire possibility of tolerance reduction with supplements.i don't have enough patience to answer this kind of comments.
edit:the activation of coenzymeq10 empathogenic properties is dependent on NSAID usage,not the other supplements i wrote before.

 

[bookshelf1]

i added mechanism section.just noted maybe someone want to consider.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I just want to say that I've read up on anything remotely related to making Opioids stronger that the internet can provide. I had a vested interest in the subject that drove me to search. When I came across something, I would generally try it out and see for myself. At the end of the day, I never found anything that really made that big difference. There was no secret to removing tolerance.

Not all Opioids are the same in terms of pharmacokinetics. If you take a drug like Methadone, that is heavily influenced by enzymes. you are given some pretty well-known options for boosting potency by fiddling with Cytochrome P450 and company. I've taken Cimetidine (Tagamet), Omeprazole (Prilosec), Black Pepper, Cat's Claw, Grapefruit (including concentrates, juices and whole fruit) and at the end of the day, I could perhaps boost the potency of my Methadone by 15%-20%. The big issue here is that with numbers like that, I truly could not say with confidence that there was a difference.

One interesting one with Methadone is Fluvoxamine (Luvox). Its an older SSRI antidepressant similar to Fluoxetine (Prozac). This Fluvoxamine has a much more significant effect on the metabolism of Methadone, with some postulating increases in bioavailability of 50%. If you do a quick search, you will find case studies in which patients maintained on Methadone are prescribed Fluvoxamine and present at the Emergency Department five days later with symptoms of Opioid overdose.

While I appreciate OP's time and effort in putting all of this together., I feel that there is nothing out there that we know of that can stop, reduce or prevent tolerance in the way discussed by OP. A lot of people go chasing after this idea. It seems to be one of the known phases in the development of Opioid addiction and dependence.

I've got no problem with discussing this stuff, but I really feel the answers that people want are just not there.

 

[bookshelf1]

I just want to say that I've read up on anything remotely related to making Opioids stronger that the internet can provide. I had a vested interest in the subject that drove me to search. When I came across something, I would generally try it out and see for myself. At the end of the day, I never found anything that really made that big difference. There was no secret to removing tolerance.

Not all Opioids are the same in terms of pharmacokinetics. If you take a drug like Methadone, that is heavily influenced by enzymes. you are given some pretty well-known options for boosting potency by fiddling with Cytochrome P450 and company. I've taken Cimetidine (Tagamet), Omeprazole (Prilosec), Black Pepper, Cat's Claw, Grapefruit (including concentrates, juices and whole fruit) and at the end of the day, I could perhaps boost the potency of my Methadone by 15%-20%. The big issue here is that with numbers like that, I truly could not say with confidence that there was a difference.

One interesting one with Methadone is Fluvoxamine (Luvox). Its an older SSRI antidepressant similar to Fluoxetine (Prozac). This Fluvoxamine has a much more significant effect on the metabolism of Methadone, with some postulating increases in bioavailability of 50%. If you do a quick search, you will find case studies in which patients maintained on Methadone are prescribed Fluvoxamine and present at the Emergency Department five days later with symptoms of Opioid overdose.

While I appreciate OP's time and effort in putting all of this together., I feel that there is nothing out there that we know of that can stop, reduce or prevent tolerance in the way discussed by OP. A lot of people go chasing after this idea. It seems to be one of the known phases in the development of Opioid addiction and dependence.

I've got no problem with discussing this stuff, but I really feel the answers that people want are just not there.

i agree that there is no way to totally stop tolerance.and my method did make a tolerance for its own.
but i still have hope that maybe i could find a way to reduce more tolerance.to me it is very important to get good high from opioids.thats why i did such effort.
and i confronted another incident that made me change my goal. when i used Naproxen with opioid and some other supplement it felt very stronger and i miss that high so much.i am in search of such substance to make the opioids do that kind of high for me.unfortunately there is no other medication like NSAID and Corticosteroids in the same mechanism.so i am just doing some blind shots but i guess its worth.

 

[bookshelf1]

i added the potency table,i can discuss about how i judged about the potency and how some of them are lower or higher

 

[bookshelf1]

hey everyone...it seems i got cluster headache out of nowhere...great lord...
yesterday i felt some headache but it was small and after each usage of biotin+niacin(i am not sure which one is the worsener but i think its niacin because i have used biotin before). my headache got worse but still i thought it is normal and tomorrow i will be better,today i woke up at 9:15 because i couldn't tolerate more headaches.and it lasterd around 15 minutes.but still it lasted in small pain and looks like getting healed but i am worried if it comes back.
i am not sure if it all is related to this experiment i have done or maybe i should prevent other people to not get into what i got.
i will inform here if i get better.but i write a warning for everyone.

 

[bookshelf1]

my pain is pretty much better now after 5 hours.it seems it maybe isn't a cluster headache.but i went to the doctor he gave me some medication.i haven't used them yet

 

[bookshelf1]

despite getting fu*** up by headache i am continuing this experiment.currently i am taking biotin+niacin+omega3 and oxy to get high.i hope that headache won't come back.
i have been thinking and i don't think its a good idea to just use the worseners of headache instantly.
i use other supplements such as folic acid,B6 which tend to not worsen headache.

 

[bookshelf1]

i remember two days ago before my headache starts i was thinking what should i do if i get headache?because i can't use NSAID painkillers they can lower my platelet and induce heart pain.
interestingly a day after that i got headache.and meanwhile people tell me you just magnify your problems nothing bad happens to you.
i am not sure if my headache happened because of inspired suggestivity or it is not related.
but i had similar things in my life that just happened after i thought about them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's possible your headaches are from supplement/vitamin overuse. The dangers of supplement overuse are underappreciated. Taking vitamins everyday is geneally considered bad, even dangerous, by the medical consensus.

Just a thought.

 

[bookshelf1]

an hour ago i took 5 mg indometacin and i was worried because i have peptic ulcer and heart sensivity but now i feel much better with no side effects,
i always been using Naproxen usually 500mg and it had always some little to strong pain in my heart for me even on low doses.its strange why indometacin didn't induce any side effect.i know 5 mg is a very low dose but i had heart pain with much less dose of Naproxen.a single grain of naproxen could give me lots of heart pain.(see News section of my thread)

 

[OpiateKiller]

It's impossible to know your body well enough without a subjective belief, if you believe oh these vitamins are lowering my tolerance and go into a oxy 30 with a positive mindset you're gonna get wrecked, it likely will increase the effects through the law of attraction and the power of the mind...

But for me as a skeptic I can snort down 10 oxy 30 mg right now and I'd be hardly phased and it's sad, you could give me all those vitamins too in any order, it wouldn't matter.