• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

Ok so you've linked to wikipedia where the word stimulant appears several times?
While not finding his own experiences with MDMA particularly powerful,[127][129] Shulgin was impressed with the drug's disinhibiting effects and thought it could be useful in therapy.[129] Believing MDMA allowed users to strip away habits and perceive the world clearly, Shulgin called the drug window.[127][130] Shulgin occasionally used MDMA for relaxation, referring to it as "my low-calorie martini", and gave the drug to friends, researchers, and others who he thought could benefit from it.[127] One such person was Leo Zeff, a psychotherapist who had been known to use psychedelic substances in his practice. When he tried the drug in 1977, Zeff was impressed with the effects of MDMA and came out of his semi-retirement to promote its use in therapy. Over the following years, Zeff traveled around the United States and occasionally to Europe, eventually training an estimated four thousand psychotherapists in the therapeutic use of MDMA.[129][131] Zeff named the drug Adam, believing it put users in a state of primordial innocence.[123
 
Not that we know of, but that does not mean that they don't exist.


Existential negatives are inherently unprovable.
Please understand this: "The lack of evidence for existence is not an evidence for nonexistence". This is a well known basis for a logical fallacy.

@indigoaura: I think the subject above is your forté. I'd like to read your 3¢ about it.


What are you writing about?
1) Potent inhibitory/antagonistic substances
2) Potent toxic substances
3) Potent psychoactive substances

...they are not synonymous.


No, I am not referring to MDDMA. MDDMA is not a very potent inhibitory or psychoactive substance.


Actually, you are wrong. For example 100ng of a potent substance like Lofentanil in 100mg of MDMA is beyond the threshold of detection of most analytic instruments ...yet still active.
There might exist other substances which are not psychoactive nor toxic but have a very potent inhibitory effects. Similar to Duloxetine ...but more potent.

P.S.
Yes, Lofentanil is not a byproduct of MDMA synth., but it proves that potent and virtually undetectable substances exist. It is conceivable that an unknown potent inhibitory compound exists which is a byproduct of MDMA synth, which we have not discovered yet. Such compound does not have to psychoactive by itself ...or toxic.
If it's inhibitory it's definitely not what your looking for. If it's a potent you toxin you would definitely know about it! And if it was a potent psychoactive compounds it would have been discovered!
 
What could it possibly inhibit in your brain to make mdma more intense?
MAOI would inhibit the CYP2D6 and make MDMA more intense ...and likely hurt or kill the patient in the process.

BTW: This discussion is not about exploring methods to intensify the MDMA effects but about exploring substances which can inhibit its psychoactive effects, such as, but not limited to, monoamine transporter inhibitors.
 
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Vash445 might have some mental problems (or is very young emotionally) but he sometimes makes sense technically and generates valuable data. This is much better than some members here who never analyze anything chemically.

No he doesn’t... “Sometimes” doesn’t count here. He doesn’t have mental health problems he’s just someone who pulls that card when actually confronted on things.

If you actually look through his posts like I did his whole bullshit story falls apart, but you guys believe what you’d like.

-GC
 
No he doesn’t... “Sometimes” doesn’t count here. He doesn’t have mental health problems he’s just someone who pulls that card when actually confronted on things.

If you actually look through his posts like I did his whole bullshit story falls apart, but you guys believe what you’d like.

-GC
I do have mental problems and collect government disability over it so you can shut up that

I don't have access to a lab with NMR or HPLC, my friend DID. Besides Im not going to defend myself when every business, university etc. shut down at exactly that time because of rona and my friend couldn't do crap for months or enter campus. You guys pressuring me to do shit Including saying I should synth MDMA from safrole ... WHILE IM ON FEDERAL PROBATION and I personally don't even have access to do crap, he just barley had access like for this last month because everything is starting to reopen including college university where the lab is located with NMR . But ya the world ending and you putting pressure on me is my fault and every university was closed for on campus work . Ya ok.... Totally ALL my fault...

I'm trying to help find answers about this but if your going to give me crap . I might as well not even butt in at all. In fact if "If you actually look through his posts like I did his whole bullshit story falls apart, but you guys believe what you’d like."

Then DONT take my word pure product has a clean NMR but meh NMR is messed up. You go find someone with a NMR and or HPLC and IS WILLING TO RISK doing this... if not you make your theories without my NMR support ....

Caslava offered a 10k bitcoin bounty to test his pharma Xanax only via NMR. He said EC gcms had issues and I didn't know what he ment till I tested Xanax powder that was bunk but was "99%" pure. I dare you to find 1 person to run an NMR AND HE OFFERED a 10k bounty. He never found anyone before he retired... so me even running those 3 scans 2 meh 1 magic and the newest magic coming clean. You should be VERY FUCKING HAPPY for like 100 donation and quit giving me crap because I did run a few scans at a cost MORE THEN fair...
 
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This is totally some personal beef between you two that doesn't belong in this discussion. Let's please agree to stay on topic and keep it academic and professionally courteous. No disrespect to you, @G_Chem or @vash445

It's not personal beef, it is directly related to our work that we've created here.


Vash, if you want to contribute, fine. But, don't come in bitching about others having feelings about your poor behavior and communication that negatively impacted numerous participants of this thread. Exceptional circumstances are forgiveable, but communication and honesty are required for that to happen. Neither of those happened, and making excuses is not a substitute.
 
It's not personal beef, it is directly related to our work that we've created here.


Vash, if you want to contribute, fine. But, don't come in bitching about others having feelings about your poor behavior and communication that negatively impacted numerous participants of this thread. Exceptional circumstances are forgiveable, but communication and honesty are required for that to happen. Neither of those happened, and making excuses is not a substitute.
but communication and honesty are required for that to happen. Neither of those happened...
I did tell you what happened just now. but I got so pissed off, I didn't want to bring shit up again because it caused a mental break down and a long 5350. That means a mental hospital for at LEAST 1 MONTH.

And it's causing me to flip off again and kill myself. I have borderline personality disorder and this shit is TRIGGERING ME. One that is about to happen again

Look you submitted a sample for NMR . I gave a sample for NMR pretty sure at least 3 NMR samples. . every campus was closed I'm SORRY YOU GUYS WANTED ME BUT IT WASN'T IN THE CARDS WITH RONA AND EVERYTHING CLOSING... and it not being my lab but a friend oh 15 states away. You guys were putting pressure on me and I snapped. So of course I'm not going to long on for like 8 months. Now let by gones be by gones or mods can ban me ok. Now shut up. If you don't want my help fine but piss off BECAUSE IM TRYING TO FUCKING HELP.AND I DID HELP WITH 3 NMR SAMPLES SO SHUT UP.

Of course I don't want to respond IF YOU GUYS ARE ATTACKING ME AND I WENT TO THE MENTAL HOSPITAL WHICH IS LIKE JAIL for a month. But you what what if you don't like what I said FINE...

ITS THE TRUTH. But you know what... go FIND SOMEONE WITH AN NMR or HPLC besides me.. Pay them a few K .. I did my job I sent NMRS. But to force my friend to do more when A universities closed up. And B you guys WANTED AN NMR which I did give .... chances are good luck finding some to test mdma WITHOUT gc/ms.

If you wanted an NMR of the impurities that fine. But I NEVER agreed to that and did send a nmr sample of meh and magic. So quit acting LIKE I RAN OFF WITH COIN and provided NOTHING.. you guys got 3 NMR samples now pipe down.

If I stole the coin and PROVIDED NOTHING THATS DIFFERENT.

BUT I UPLOADED NMRS so you can shut up about this because thE world ended for like 6-8 months, 1 month I was in a mental hospital SO YES IM NOT GOING TO LOG ON IF I GO TO THE MENTAL HOSPITAL OVER FALSE ACCUSATIONS.
 
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@vash445 - If participating in this academic discourse is triggering to you, then you should safeguard your mental health and remove yourself from the conversation. Coming into the thread and threatening suicide and blaming people for your mental decline etc. is not stable or fair. Also, the incidents where you lost samples that were submitted etc. were long before COVID occurred, so trying to shift perception to make this related to COVID is inaccurate.

You made the choice to insert yourself into this conversation, offer to provide testing services, promise to provide a certain level of results (such as individual testing of contaminants that had been removed by column chromatography), and then did not provide what you had agreed to provide. Once you start offering services and accepting money for services, your "customers" have the right to comment on what occurred and be dissatisfied with what occurred.

I have a friend with borderline personality disorder who has been committed several times, and I genuinely sympathize with your situation. Look out for yourself and get the support you need. If this is triggering to you, look out for yourself and do not participate.
 
@user666 - As far as @dreamsbeyond and his first 20 posts on Bluelight are concerned...

After 5 years of participating in this thread, my patience and tolerance has become admittedly diminished. There is a pattern of new posters coming to this thread, obviously not taking the time to read the bare minimum of information, and then blowing the thread up with a lot of demands and questions (that have already been answered, if the poster bothered to read and comprehend the first two posts of the thread).

@dreamsbeyond - Go back and re-read the first several posts of this thread. If you do not understand them, then re-read them. I mean fully read, not scan.

According to peer reviewed, published research, these are facts:
#1. Street MDMA contains synthesis byproducts and impurities that are not detected or reported by the GCMS testing provided by harm reduction labs. More advanced analysis is needed to detect them.
#2. Some synthesis byproducts inhibit monoamine transporters.
#3. When monoamine transporters are inhibited, the effects of MDMA are altered/reduced.
#4. There are known inhibitory compounds that have been detected in samples seized by law enforcement, as well as in a subpar sample I submitted to a harm reduction lab.

None of those statements are hypothesis. They are all facts that have been established by published research. I have spoken directly to one of the researchers and he confirmed that the presence of a monoamine inhibitor in minimal amounts would reduce the MDMA experience. He also confirmed that this is a sound hypothesis to pursue further through research.
 
I had an experience last night which provided some additional data for us to consider.

I decided to roll last night, but I took 15 mg of 2CB first. For me, this is a low dose of 2CB as I usually enjoy it around 30 mg.

After I was experiencing the effects of the 2CB, I took 150 mg of my 80% MDMA sample (120 mg equivalent).

Guess what? More significant eye dilation actually occurred.

This is a sample I have used twice before, and it is the same sample with the MDDMA impurity. I was wondering if the 2CB might activate monoamine transporters first, and possibly reduce monoamine inhibitory action. Seems like this was at least partially true.

Not only did eye dilation occur, but the length of the roll was extended. The urge to re-dose was significantly reduced. While this was not a "blowing up," old-school roll - it was way better than it was without the 2CB pre-load. It was more positive and more empathetic. Sex was better.

So, basically, from here on out I will pre-load with 2CB every time. Obvious, clear, improvement.

<edited to add: I had also been supplementing with DHEA for about a week prior to this experience. Pre-loaded 20 mg of DHEA prior to the roll as well. Not sure what (if any) effect this may have had, but it should be included in the report for full accuracy.>
 
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So, been thinking about ways to purify on the assumption of an impurity present. I've tried things before but perhaps it's worth another go. Hopefully someone can guide me as my chemistry is fairly non-existant.

Things tried or to try:

A/B extraction - managed to do quite well (I think?) thanks to @G_Chem 's procedure but made no difference to experience

Column chromatography - so I did have a play with this. First time was a mess, second time a lot better. The two main problems for me are solvent selection and working out in which fraction(s) the MDMA is. So, DCM? DCM in the uk seems to be a bit more restricted now as there are health concerns with it apparently. Also, for locating the MDMA, maybe try and recrystallise all of the fractions and then test with reagents? A bit labourious but maybe worth a shot.

Recrystallisation - I sort of bottled it after reading @vecktor 's post. Maybe this is worth looking?

Vacuum distillation - no experience of this and I think the pump would add quite a bit to the cost. Doable for a novice?
 
So, basically, from here on out I will pre-load with 2CB every time. Obvious, clear, improvement.

That's excellent @indigoaura . I'm glad things worked out better for you experience-wise.
In my opinion, the right combos add immeasurably to the MDMA experience. Even with top shelf, magic MDMA.
I personally will not roll without dissos and/or psychedelics. My fav dissos for combos are Ketamine and DCK.
Psychedelic-wise, I have enjoyed combos with LSD, mushrooms, 4-sub tryptamines, etc.
I haven't tried 2CB, but have no doubt that it would work fantastically with MDMA.
 
@vash445 - If participating in this academic discourse is triggering to you, then you should safeguard your mental health and remove yourself from the conversation. Coming into the thread and threatening suicide and blaming people for your mental decline etc. is not stable or fair. Also, the incidents where you lost samples that were submitted etc. were long before COVID occurred, so trying to shift perception to make this related to COVID is inaccurate.

You made the choice to insert yourself into this conversation, offer to provide testing services, promise to provide a certain level of results (such as individual testing of contaminants that had been removed by column chromatography), and then did not provide what you had agreed to provide. Once you start offering services and accepting money for services, your "customers" have the right to comment on what occurred and be dissatisfied with what occurred.

I have a friend with borderline personality disorder who has been committed several times, and I genuinely sympathize with your situation. Look out for yourself and get the support you need. If this is triggering to you, look out for yourself and do not participate.
You made the choice to insert yourself into this conversation, offer to provide testing services, promise to provide a certain level of results (such as individual testing of contaminants that had been removed by column chromatography), and then did not provide what you had agreed to provide. Once you start offering services and accepting money for services, your "customers" have the right to comment on what occurred and be dissatisfied with what occurred.

And rona happened, and I went to hospital for a month. Things I cann't control. Im sorry it didnt happen and im sorry he misplaced "things that needed to be hidden" because he is woking on his masters. And that SHORTLY after like 1-2 weeks everyone had to leave because of rona. But we got more info then EVER before. Im sorry, but goodluck finding someone with a NMR who is willing to take time from , school , work, etc for a measly half gram of MDMA and risk their career because I only got $100 and bought a g of magic and split it with him so really noone REALLY got much. Besides I highly believe we wouldnt get an answer of the impurities because there are probably way to many and 2 meh samples arent enough. I don't know what else to say. But they were "donations" and I did provide NMR's regardless. If it will shut EVERYONE up I will pay but attacking me over SOMETHING OUT OF MY CONTROL is pointless especially over a $30 and $70 donation... Attacking me with things out of my control is pointless and doing so will cause me to disappear.

What we did find out is EC and WINDOS are bullcrap for testing. That is 100% sure.

Besides $100 is REALLY fucking fair for an NMR , LIke really fair . let alone 3... Please tell me who do you even know WHO IS WILLING TO RUN one... WHO will run a test without GC/MS. A EC test is like $70 aand we noticed something that EC didnt... . You guys actually like we are testing legal stuff He took the time to run the samples and we should be grateful but im tired of everyone attacking me. I wonder if I should delete this account and start over with a new name...

2D Package (1D Proton, 2D COSY, 2D HSQC & 2D HMBC)$1250
 
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@user666 - As far as @dreamsbeyond and his first 20 posts on Bluelight are concerned...

After 5 years of participating in this thread, my patience and tolerance has become admittedly diminished. There is a pattern of new posters coming to this thread, obviously not taking the time to read the bare minimum of information, and then blowing the thread up with a lot of demands and questions (that have already been answered, if the poster bothered to read and comprehend the first two posts of the thread).

@dreamsbeyond - Go back and re-read the first several posts of this thread. If you do not understand them, then re-read them. I mean fully read, not scan.

According to peer reviewed, published research, these are facts:
#1. Street MDMA contains synthesis byproducts and impurities that are not detected or reported by the GCMS testing provided by harm reduction labs. More advanced analysis is needed to detect them.
#2. Some synthesis byproducts inhibit monoamine transporters.
#3. When monoamine transporters are inhibited, the effects of MDMA are altered/reduced.
#4. There are known inhibitory compounds that have been detected in samples seized by law enforcement, as well as in a subpar sample I submitted to a harm reduction lab.

None of those statements are hypothesis. They are all facts that have been established by published research. I have spoken directly to one of the researchers and he confirmed that the presence of a monoamine inhibitor in minimal amounts would reduce the MDMA experience. He also confirmed that this is a sound hypothesis to pursue further through research.
Your right, but I wasn't being demanding. I should have read them and I apologize if I was rude.

I do wonder though, mdma itself actually inhibits monoamine reuptake so how would inhibiting a monoamine transporter have an effect?
 
Your right, but I wasn't being demanding. I should have read them and I apologize if I was rude.

I do wonder though, mdma itself actually inhibits monoamine reuptake so how would inhibiting a monoamine transporter have an effect?
I think you are thinking of something slightly different. Monoamine transporters and serotonin re-uptake are different. MDMA does inhibit serotonin re-uptake similarly to some anti-depressants, but I believe the monoamine transporters are a different situation. Blocking/inhibiting the monoamine transporters would prevent the initial release of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine (depending on which transporter was inhibited), but blocking the re-uptake prevents the neurotransmitter from leaving the synapse after it has already been released. At least, that is my understanding.

Also, MDDMA seems to have some unique characteristics with monoamine transporters that make it even more likely to interfere.

To read about what monoamine inhibition looks like in MDMA naïve participants, you can read about how duloxetine impact the MDMA experience in the paper, "Duloxetine Inhibits Effects of MDMA (‘‘Ecstasy’’) In Vitro and in Humans in a Randomized Placebo-Controlled Laboratory Study." Although I am not suggesting that duloxetine is the culprit in this situation, the paper does a great job of explaining how a typical MDMA experience plays out in comparison to one where the monoamine transporters were inhibited prior to MDMA consumption. There are many other papers that get into this as well, and scientists have found that the fear extinction qualities of MDMA that are so valuable in PTSD treatment are blocked when monoamine transporters are inhibited.

Link: https://sci-hub.st/10.1371/journal.pone.0036476

Link: https://sci-hub.st/10.1007/s00213-017-4684-8
 
After I was experiencing the effects of the 2CB, I took 150 mg of my 80% MDMA sample (120 mg equivalent).
Guess what? More significant eye dilation actually occurred.
That might be significant because I remember that someone in the old thread did the opposite, i.e. took 2CB after meh-MDMA and the 2CB did not work.
 
That might be significant because I remember that someone in the old thread did the opposite, i.e. took 2CB after meh-MDMA and the 2CB did not work.
That was me.

When I have tried taking 2CB after the subpar product, it actually is an awful, sick experience with headaches and bad vibes. So, I gave up on the 2CB/MDMA combo early on, despite always hearing how awesome it was.
 
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