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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

Didnt even know the word. In the past I just thought about it in my head and didnt read about it at all. I just kinda am. Me being psychopath is a fucking joke, dont believe in that. It was never true, I would be way different if I truly was a psychopath (atleast I think so).
 
As you worded your question, the only two themes would be being born the wrong gender and suffering from low self esteem due to society's incapacity to accept them for who they are.
Capacity to accept yourself for who you are - that seems fairly synonymous with self esteem to me. An internal state, driven by internal processes.

Societies tends to accept anyone for who they are (or who they present themselves to be) very quickly and easily. It does not follow that society will necessarily view that person with positive regard however.

I can see how a person who cannot accept themselves might try to escape that by denying the existence of what they cannot accept. Which would necessitate fitting themselves to some other mold, then convince themselves, that the mold is their authentic self. A virtually impossible task, hence the pathological behaviors that grow around it, as a source of habitual reinforcement; plus an insatiable thirst for external validation of the authenticity of their mold.

If I'm even partially on the right track with that, well, that would be so heartbreakingly sad that I lack the words to express just how much so.

It would also make it very cruel to humor them with validation, and even worse to encourage it with support. Seems nice on the surface sure, but only deepens and lengthens the misery.

See, wouldn't it be the case that if good self esteem was the starting point they would just happily think of themselves as a bit of a girly man or as a tom boy, and be satisfied with that, and go about their life without the whole 'transgender' persona ever being useful, desirable or necessary?
 
I can see how a person who cannot accept themselves might try to escape that by denying the existence of what they cannot accept. Which would necessitate fitting themselves to some other mold, then convince themselves, that the mold is their authentic self. A virtually impossible task, hence the pathological behaviors that grow around it, as a source of habitual reinforcement; plus an insatiable thirst for external validation of the authenticity of their mold.
You put it perfectly. I feel like I finally am truly on the right tracks, I might be wrong but not by much. Sexuality is an interesting one though. Well Julius Caesar was bisexual his whole life so who am I to deny bisexuality.
 
I get irrationally bent out of shape by a lot of transgender activism. Mainly the insistence that transgender women are women and that young children should automatically be given puberty blockers without parental consent or medical assessment if they want. However, I also have a couple of TS friends that have become friends with benefits when we are all methed up. Seems entirely natural at the time. But I can’t tell whether I deserve to be called a transphobic or not. It would seem a shame to have sucked all that dick and still be on the wrong side of things.
 
Capacity to accept yourself for who you are - that seems fairly synonymous with self esteem to me. An internal state, driven by internal processes.

Societies tends to accept anyone for who they are (or who they present themselves to be) very quickly and easily. It does not follow that society will necessarily view that person with positive regard however.

I can see how a person who cannot accept themselves might try to escape that by denying the existence of what they cannot accept. Which would necessitate fitting themselves to some other mold, then convince themselves, that the mold is their authentic self. A virtually impossible task, hence the pathological behaviors that grow around it, as a source of habitual reinforcement; plus an insatiable thirst for external validation of the authenticity of their mold.

If I'm even partially on the right track with that, well, that would be so heartbreakingly sad that I lack the words to express just how much so.

It would also make it very cruel to humor them with validation, and even worse to encourage it with support. Seems nice on the surface sure, but only deepens and lengthens the misery.

See, wouldn't it be the case that if good self esteem was the starting point they would just happily think of themselves as a bit of a girly man or as a tom boy, and be satisfied with that, and go about their life without the whole 'transgender' persona ever being useful, desirable or necessary?

It seems like you are attempting to rationalize your opinion that being transgender is a mental disorder while at the same time appearing to be compassionate. So I guess I just disagree with your premise.
 
Didnt even know the word. In the past I just thought about it in my head and didnt read about it at all. I just kinda am. Me being psychopath is a fucking joke, dont believe in that. It was never true, I would be way different if I truly was a psychopath (atleast I think so).
I read about it and its likely genderfluid. It kinda varies, like when I was off the antipsychotics I sometimes thought I was a woman and stuff. I cant say I have multiple personalities, but it seems like I have features of it. Might be completely wrong, and hope I am. I dont change as much as I think they do, but I do change sometimes. Its weird.
 
I get irrationally bent out of shape by a lot of transgender activism. Mainly the insistence that transgender women are women and that young children should automatically be given puberty blockers without parental consent or medical assessment if they want. However, I also have a couple of TS friends that have become friends with benefits when we are all methed up. Seems entirely natural at the time. But I can’t tell whether I deserve to be called a transphobic or not. It would seem a shame to have sucked all that dick and still be on the wrong side of things.

Not making an assessment on whether you're transphobic or not, but it's entirely possible for cis homosexuals, cis bisexuals, etc to be transphobic. In other words, you can suck lots of dick and still be transphobic. It happens.

At the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with having honest conversations on issues. I'm not one to immediately scold someone or assume they are horrible people if they accidentally misgender someone or have a different view on parenting. (That's how I view the issue of postponing puberty or anything in that realm...it's ultimately up to the parents. It can't be solely up to a 7 year old, or their neighbors, or random people on the internet.)
 
I read about it and its likely genderfluid. It kinda varies, like when I was off the antipsychotics I sometimes thought I was a woman and stuff. I cant say I have multiple personalities, but it seems like I have features of it. Might be completely wrong, and hope I am. I dont change as much as I think they do, but I do change sometimes. Its weird.

you don't have to define yourself for anyone. You being you is good enough.
 
It seems like you are attempting to rationalize your opinion that being transgender is a mental disorder while at the same time appearing to be compassionate. So I guess I just disagree with your premise.
So you just disagree with my premise because -

I have an opinion and bothered to explain why I have it; or

That compassion is only possible on the grounds of your opinion and anything else is not real, existing in appearance only; or

Some other reason, perhaps a mixture of fear and laziness, or you tell me (please).
 
I read about it and its likely genderfluid. It kinda varies, like when I was off the antipsychotics I sometimes thought I was a woman and stuff. I cant say I have multiple personalities, but it seems like I have features of it. Might be completely wrong, and hope I am. I dont change as much as I think they do, but I do change sometimes. Its weird.
Anima and animus perhaps?
 
Not making an assessment on whether you're transphobic or not, but it's entirely possible for cis homosexuals, cis bisexuals, etc to be transphobic. In other words, you can suck lots of dick and still be transphobic. It happens.

At the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with having honest conversations on issues. I'm not one to immediately scold someone or assume they are horrible people if they accidentally misgender someone or have a different view on parenting. (That's how I view the issue of postponing puberty or anything in that realm...it's ultimately up to the parents. It can't be solely up to a 7 year old, or their neighbors, or random people on the internet.)
I think that is actually true of a lot of bigotry, in Australia at any rate. Many people express misgivings about a particular group while managing to hold affections for individual members of the same group. When I was a kid it was the Lebanese. Everyone expressed great dissatisfaction with letting them immigrate to Australia but pretty much everyone also got along great with one at their work or school.
 
So you just disagree with my premise because -

I have an opinion and bothered to explain why I have it; or

That compassion is only possible on the grounds of your opinion and anything else is not real, existing in appearance only; or

Some other reason, perhaps a mixture of fear and laziness, or you tell me (please).

no, I simply don't agree with you that it should be viewed as a "disorder" or whatever. If that's your premise, I disagree. I think our differences as humans is what makes life interesting and how we define ourselves is our choice. I think the acceptance of others (with the obvious caveat of "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else") is really important and that part of acceptance is being non-judgemental.
 
Gender non-conforming would be the largest umbrella term I can think of that would include anything from a cis-male in touch with his feminine side (anima?) to a transgender person who has had full re-assignment surgery.

It's good to have broad terms like gender non-conforming but it's also ambiguous at times because so many people fall under that category it's arguably impossible not to be gender non-conforming when considering the various culture norms that differ from place and time.
 
no, I simply don't agree with you that it should be viewed as a "disorder" or whatever. If that's your premise, I disagree. I think our differences as humans is what makes life interesting and how we define ourselves is our choice. I think the acceptance of others (with the obvious caveat of "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else") is really important and that part of acceptance is being non-judgemental.
I never said it was a disorder though.

Or that there was anything wrong with them.

I said maybe they have issues loving and accepting themselves.
 
I can see how a person who cannot accept themselves might try to escape that by denying the existence of what they cannot accept. Which would necessitate fitting themselves to some other mold, then convince themselves, that the mold is their authentic self. A virtually impossible task, hence the pathological behaviors that grow around it, as a source of habitual reinforcement; plus an insatiable thirst for external validation of the authenticity of their mold.

convincing themselves...pathological behaviors...habitual reinforcement..."external thirst for validation of their mold".

what do these things add up to, if not a disorder? How can you use this type of language and suggest you mean something other than that? I don't get it.
 
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