Opioids Kratom

[aspiringchemist]

I've noticed that using extracts alongside Rx opioids actually produces a decent effect as opposed to taking a full dose of plain powder and Rx opioids; I always find this somewhat dull.

Has anyone found kratom tea to combine with Rx opioids better than powder?

Xorkoth - I just finished preparing 17 grams red bali and red sumatra via "traditional method", however I added 1 ounce vodka along with 1 ounce lemon juice while simmering. Will consume shortly. I may have used a bit too much water; started with 3.5 cups and ended with about 2.75 cups strained.

Update - just consumed 35mg hydrocodone followed by the 2.75 cups of fresh brewed tea made from 17 grams red bali and red sumatra (I have a fairly high tolerance and do not suggest such high doses to others).

I'm not convinced these two can't mix well and I'm wondering if something is left behind during tea or extraction process that allows the alkaloids to synergize with other opioids to a better degree than when ingesting all the powder.

Taste is different and initially not bad. By the time I reached the end it was a little gag invoking. Perhaps 2 cups water to begin with is adequate.

My kratom habit is so strong that traditional opioids dont hold me unless I take higher amounts. Its really a bummer cuz I can't just enjoy some oxy etc. So I'm always on the hunt for effective and synergistic combinations.

On many occasions I've continued to experience kratom withdrawal while being on Rx opioids, until they reach their peak anyway.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Reporting back at T 1.5 hours and this is great :giggle:
There's some actual opioidergic synergy instead of the typical "1+1=1.5" effect. Feels similar to taking hydrocodone along with mitragynine extract as I had thought it may.

I'm still on the overall come up for sure but felt the typical kratom stimulation ~10 minutes after dosing.

Just took my usual regimen of gabapentin and diazepam. I've found the effects of sedatives best enjoyed with opioids when ingested an hour or so after the opioid (including and maybe especially kratom). Here too I must point out the inherent danger and increased risk of overdose death with co-administration opioids and sedatives and stress the importance of knowing your tolerance and limits if you choose to engage in such activity.

I will absolutely continue making tea. It was a bit more of a pain in the ass than toss n wash and definitely took more time but seems absolutely worth it.

Xorkoth - thank you for sharing your method and experience!

 

[AutoTripper]

Reporting back at T 1.5 hours and this is great :giggle:
There's some actual opioidergic synergy instead of the typical "1+1=1.5" effect. Feels similar to taking hydrocodone along with mitragynine extract as I had thought it may.

I'm still on the overall come up for sure but felt the typical kratom stimulation ~10 minutes after dosing.

Just took my usual regimen of gabapentin and diazepam. I've found the effects of sedatives best enjoyed with opioids when ingested an hour or so after the opioid (including and maybe especially kratom). Here too I must point out the inherent danger and increased risk of overdose death with co-administration opioids and sedatives and stress the importance of knowing your tolerance and limits if you choose to engage in such activity.

I will absolutely continue making tea. It was a bit more of a pain in the ass than toss n wash and definitely took more time but seems absolutely worth it.

Xorkoth - thank you for sharing your method and experience!

Have you tried including more potentiators in your diet and routine? From my own initial experiences, and from whatvI have seen and heard it does appear that Kratom is very easily potentiated by many different foods and ingredients.

Good ones appear to be- turmeric, black pepper, cayenne, sunflower lecithin, oregano oil ( personal experience I find that oregano oil does something to increase the psychoactive effects of all substances I have been taking it for many years for allergies), also raw organic garlic, I swear, is an extraordinary potentiator of all drugs.

Lots others as well, but I think it will really pay off to make an effort to combine kratom with potentiators.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Have you tried including more potentiators in your diet and routine? From my own initial experiences, and from whatvI have seen and heard it does appear that Kratom is very easily potentiated by many different foods and ingredients.

Good ones appear to be- turmeric, black pepper, cayenne, sunflower lecithin, oregano oil ( personal experience I find that oregano oil does something to increase the psychoactive effects of all substances I have been taking it for many years for allergies), also raw organic garlic, I swear, is an extraordinary potentiator of all drugs.

Lots others as well, but I think it will really pay off to make an effort to combine kratom with potentiators.

I pretty much always use dextromethorphan 60-120mg an hour before dosing.

I've never found cpy inhibitors to boost the effects, quite the opposite in fact. This makes sense now knowing that mitragynine is converted in vivo to 7-HO via cpy pathway, thus things like tagamet or WGFJ would result in reduced 7-HO levels.

I have not tried turmeric or black pepper but have read the reports, nor have I
tried the others you mentioned. I'll do some reading. Thanks for the input!

 

[AutoTripper]

I pretty much always use dextromethorphan 60-120mg an hour before dosing.

I've never found cpy inhibitors to boost the effects, quite the opposite in fact. This makes sense now knowing that mitragynine is converted in vivo to 7-HO via cpy pathway, thus things like tagamet or WGFJ would result in reduced 7-HO levels.

I have not tried turmeric or black pepper but have read the reports, nor have I
tried the others you mentioned. I'll do some reading. Thanks for the input!

Do try raw garlic some time. I swear on my life, it seriosuly enhances the effects of all substances IME. I first observedthis correlation years ago when I was taking ketamine regularly and whenever I would eat my dinner with raw garlic and then take ketamine some time afterwards I would literally be floored and fending off a k hole every time.

It was like the ketamine was two or 3 times as overpowering as a result of the raw garlic. I also observed the same effect a long time ago and and 3 time with my cannabis use. Raw garlic noticeably increases the strength of the cannabis effects.

I was already aware of this interaction and never really considered it for quite a few years because I will garlic every single day to manage my allergies and infections. But recently I was diagnosed with a helicobacter pylori stomach infection and associated gastritis.

I can't take and wouldn't want to take antibiotics like I was offered so I administered or garlic as a treatment for a while but crushing three or four big cloves of organic garlic, swallowing straight down with a swig of water.

Usually I crashed my garlic just before I eat my food and combine it with the food. So this was a change to my usual routine. Whate is important when using garlic medicinally- first and foremost it absolutely has to be organic because non organic garlic isn't even worth the bother to peel it so useless antimicrobially and all round.

Only organic will do but importantly to get the real benefit from the garlic you need to crush the garlic and leave it for 10 minutes before consuming for the allicin to form.

So I was crashing the garlic and swallowing it down exactly 10 minutes later. What I noticed was that when I my went about my daily cannabis vaporization and edible consumption in the afternoon and early evening, I was getting enormously greater effect from the cannabis as if my tolerance has suddenly gone out of the window I was getting anxiety attacks with far less herb, and just generally feeling so much more hammered in every sense.

I really noticed the enhancement of the cannabis effects because I have not ever been using garlic this way in my routine so it really stood out.
In my mind raw garlic is probably one of the greatest little or unknown substance potentiators in the world and I'm actually surprised that nobody seems to be be aware of this.

 

[negrogesic]

Do try raw garlic some time. I swear on my life, it seriosuly enhances the effects of all substances IME. I first observedthis correlation years ago when I was taking ketamine regularly and whenever I would eat my dinner with raw garlic and then take ketamine some time afterwards I would literally be floored and fending off a k hole every time.

It was like the ketamine was two or 3 times as overpowering as a result of the raw garlic. I also observed the same effect a long time ago and and 3 time with my cannabis use. Raw garlic noticeably increases the strength of the cannabis effects.

I was already aware of this interaction and never really considered it for quite a few years because I will garlic every single day to manage my allergies and infections. But recently I was diagnosed with a helicobacter pylori stomach infection and associated gastritis.

I can't take and wouldn't want to take antibiotics like I was offered so I administered or garlic as a treatment for a while but crushing three or four big cloves of organic garlic, swallowing straight down with a swig of water.

Usually I crashed my garlic just before I eat my food and combine it with the food. So this was a change to my usual routine. Whate is important when using garlic medicinally- first and foremost it absolutely has to be organic because non organic garlic isn't even worth the bother to peel it so useless antimicrobially and all round.

Only organic will do but importantly to get the real benefit from the garlic you need to crush the garlic and leave it for 10 minutes before consuming for the allicin to form.

So I was crashing the garlic and swallowing it down exactly 10 minutes later. What I noticed was that when I my went about my daily cannabis vaporization and edible consumption in the afternoon and early evening, I was getting enormously greater effect from the cannabis as if my tolerance has suddenly gone out of the window I was getting anxiety attacks with far less herb, and just generally feeling so much more hammered in every sense.

I really noticed the enhancement of the cannabis effects because I have not ever been using garlic this way in my routine so it really stood out.
In my mind raw garlic is probably one of the greatest little or unknown substance potentiators in the world and I'm actually surprised that nobody seems to be be aware of this.

They must smell you coming from a mile away...

 

[AutoTripper]

They must smell you coming from a mile away...

Its the unfortunate side effect always. But I have to eat raw garlic every day no matter what or it is impossible for me to manage and stay on top of my chronic respiratory infections and allergies.

This is why I have been taken for granted and not really considering the potentiating effects of garlic because I have just been using it and exactly the same manner and routines for so many years so as not to notice the effect which is constant.

So that is why it was really interesting recently when I changed my routine and was consuming a large amount of raw garlic on an empty stomach earlier in the day and then going about my cannabis usage and getting absolutely blown off of my head every time.

Honestly it was like my tolerance was reduced two or 3 times. And it reminded me about how powerful this effect can be with other substances as well like ketamine many years back.

 

[GABAlover]

Ok well I have a question about Kratom. I bought me a bag of 65 capsules of red vein Indo from a local vape shop here in Texas.Im also on prozac and Gabapentin.Ive took kratom many times and it seems like this time it's a much weaker than usual, im not sure if it's the batch or the Prozac is weakening the kratom, like it does with hydrocodone.Does prozac effect the liver enzymes that metabolize mitragynine into OH-mitraginyne or whatever its called, and are their any kratom potentators???I want to get an effect cause I dont have access to better stuff...

I've found the shit to just not be that potent, however, I'm used to heroin and shit like that.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Kanna potentiates kratom. I didn't even know that until I got the Kanna home. I bought it straight from South Africa because I wanted great quality. Kanna took a few weeks to get to the states.

It's a plant and acts more like an SSRI. It helps depression and anxiety. I read that if you take Kanna 35-45 minutes before kratom, you'll feel it stronger and have euphoria. The Kanna also makes it so you don't have to take as much kratom as usual.

Kanna + hydrocodone feels awesome too based on my experiment the other night.

Oh, be careful combining Kanna with any SSRI, it's just a warning because it increases serotonin and you don't want serotonin syndrome. I take Effexor XR 75 mg twice a day and I haven't had any bad interactions at all. Just be careful if you're taking really high doses of drugs that raise serotonin.

Another thing with Kanna is some people take it once and don't think it works. Sometimes Kanna requires priming. Meaning you have to take a small amount for a few days so it builds up in your system. Kanna alone doesn't give you a high. It's a sense of well-being which is why it's a great natural antidepressant.

Kanna also goes amazing with alcohol. Take the Kanna like 35-45 minutes before drinking and it takes drinking to a whole new level. I love it with wine sometimes. It's such a euphoric and sublime feeling.

Kanna and Kratom: A Match Made in Heaven

Kanna and kratom make an interesting pair for a variety of reasons, not least of which is kanna's capacity for potentiating kratom's effects.

kratomcrazy.com

 

[AutoTripper]

Kanna potentiates kratom. I didn't even know that until I got the Kanna home. I bought it straight from South Africa because I wanted great quality. Kanna took a few weeks to get to the states.

It's a plant and acts more like an SSRI. It helps depression and anxiety. I read that if you take Kanna 35-45 minutes before kratom, you'll feel it stronger and have euphoria. The Kanna also makes it so you don't have to take as much kratom as usual.

Kanna + hydrocodone feels awesome too based on my experiment the other night.

Oh, be careful combining Kanna with any SSRI, it's just a warning because it increases serotonin and you don't want serotonin syndrome. I take Effexor XR 75 mg twice a day and I haven't had any bad interactions at all. Just be careful if you're taking really high doses of drugs that raise serotonin.

Another thing with Kanna is some people take it once and don't think it works. Sometimes Kanna requires priming. Meaning you have to take a small amount for a few days so it builds up in your system. Kanna alone doesn't give you a high. It's a sense of well-being which is why it's a great natural antidepressant.

Kanna also goes amazing with alcohol. Take the Kanna like 35-45 minutes before drinking and it takes drinking to a whole new level. I love it with wine sometimes. It's such a euphoric and sublime feeling.

Kanna and Kratom: A Match Made in Heaven

Kanna and kratom make an interesting pair for a variety of reasons, not least of which is kanna's capacity for potentiating kratom's effects.

kratomcrazy.com

Thanks for sharing. I am sure my own high appreciation and enjoyment of kratom is directly related to my cannabis usage, with which it pairs so well IMO. The euphoria from both substances combines really well and add to each other.

So kanna would appear to be another useful combo to get more out of kratom.

I was browsing a store recently who offered Kanna.

And I've just thought also the Kanna may similarly compliment the cannabis experience really well, kratom aside.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Thanks for sharing. I am sure my own high appreciation and enjoyment of kratom is directly related to my cannabis usage, with which it pairs so well IMO. The euphoria from both substances combines really well and add to each other.

So kanna would appear to be another useful combo to get more out of kratom.

I was browsing a store recently who offered Kanna.

And I've just bought also the Kanna may similarly compliment the cannabis experience really well, kratom aside.

Cannabis + Kratom sounds wonderful the way you describe it. I'm not a fan of weed because it can cause paranoia and anxiety.
The kratom would probably help me enjoy it. I'm guessing it would eliminate the anxiety. Good idea, thanks.

Yes, Kanna should enhance your experience as well. Report back, let us know when you try it.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Here's an article that explains all the different ways you can take Kanna.
I recommend staying away from extracts, they're usually garbage and don't work that well:

@AutoTripper It mentions the effects with cannabis.

"Traditionally kanna was added to a smoking mixture with other psychoactive plants, like cannabis sativa and possibly wild dagga (Leonotus leonurus). This probably explains where the ‘hallucinogenic’ effects first attributed to Sceletium tortuosum came from. Kanna potentiates the effects of both alcohol and cannabis, which means you need substantially less of these substances to get the same effect."

How to use kanna? | Kanna

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Do try raw garlic some time. I swear on my life, it seriosuly enhances the effects of all substances IME. I first observedthis correlation years ago when I was taking ketamine regularly and whenever I would eat my dinner with raw garlic and then take ketamine some time afterwards I would literally be floored and fending off a k hole every time.

It was like the ketamine was two or 3 times as overpowering as a result of the raw garlic. I also observed the same effect a long time ago and and 3 time with my cannabis use. Raw garlic noticeably increases the strength of the cannabis effects.

I was already aware of this interaction and never really considered it for quite a few years because I will garlic every single day to manage my allergies and infections. But recently I was diagnosed with a helicobacter pylori stomach infection and associated gastritis.

I can't take and wouldn't want to take antibiotics like I was offered so I administered or garlic as a treatment for a while but crushing three or four big cloves of organic garlic, swallowing straight down with a swig of water.

Usually I crashed my garlic just before I eat my food and combine it with the food. So this was a change to my usual routine. Whate is important when using garlic medicinally- first and foremost it absolutely has to be organic because non organic garlic isn't even worth the bother to peel it so useless antimicrobially and all round.

Only organic will do but importantly to get the real benefit from the garlic you need to crush the garlic and leave it for 10 minutes before consuming for the allicin to form.

So I was crashing the garlic and swallowing it down exactly 10 minutes later. What I noticed was that when I my went about my daily cannabis vaporization and edible consumption in the afternoon and early evening, I was getting enormously greater effect from the cannabis as if my tolerance has suddenly gone out of the window I was getting anxiety attacks with far less herb, and just generally feeling so much more hammered in every sense.

I really noticed the enhancement of the cannabis effects because I have not ever been using garlic this way in my routine so it really stood out.
In my mind raw garlic is probably one of the greatest little or unknown substance potentiators in the world and I'm actually surprised that nobody seems to be be aware of this.

What does it do for your gut, though?
Garlic also keeps away vampyres, some mosquitoes, opossums, cats, dogs, people, robots, cars, telephone poles . .. .

 

[AutoTripper]

The kratom would probably help me enjoy it. I'm guessing it would eliminate the anxiety. Good idea, thanks.

Yes good point I realize I have been taking this effect for granted. I am long term psychologically addicted to cannabis which I vaporize daily. It is a situation I have long needed to address my relationship with the plant enormously if I am to move forward in life.

But I have been in such a deep trench of of depression and hopelessness finding it really impossible to look forward with any sort of optimism or hope, so keeping belief and finding incentive has been out of my reach for so long.

I have been able to reduce my cannabis intake substantially with the help of the Kratom. Obviously it doesn't truly count because I'm no less cained overall, and you could argue that I am substituting.

Still, it has helped me to step back slightly and take a different view of the picture. I definitely don't feel as dependent on cannabis psychologically. Im still using it, but aiming to use it minimally and appropriately which currently I am managing very easily with the help of the kratom and a different way of feeling and looking at things.

Whatever comes from my verging Kratom addiction in a (physical sense on me I'm pretty sure I was mentally addicted from day one), I feel that overall there will be some positive lifestyle benefits and influences.
One unusual difference in my case, I do suffer with respiratory aggravation with the kratom. So when it comes to stopping or breaking, once I am bored or have enough reasons and incentive, I will get a little extra incentive because my breathing and allergy symptoms will be far easier without the kratom.

But @CoastTwoCoast your point is so relevant because the kratom is very useful for levelling the anxiety effects from cannabis, which I do definitely suffer with much more currently in life due to my highly inflamed anxiety disorder.

Cannabis both helps and hurts. But the kratom combines so well with the feeling of the cannabis and greatly increases the positive euphoria side of it.
And I just sort of top up my kratom and edible with vapor, so it isn't even like I'm even trying to get stoned or high.

So I imagine that for somebody like yourself maybe doesn't have such a severe anxiety disorder as me currently, but I'll still prone to the anxiety effects of cannabis, combining it with kratom should help substantially to remedy that and make for a much more comfortable and enjoyable experience all round.

I haven't ordered any kanna just yet by the way there was a typo in my post which I edited and it said bought instead of thought so I figured you might have thought I had already ordered some kanna.

Im interested for sure. If you do try some cannabis with the kratom combination I would be really interested to hear a little reports on the experience and how much you feel it helps it doesn't help with the anxiety. And just how it goes in general, I'm just interested in seeing if others get anywhere near the same level of enjoyment from the synergy.

What does it do for your gut, though?
Garlic also keeps away vampyres, some mosquitoes, opossums, cats, dogs, people, robots, cars, telephone poles . .. .

Well I believe raw garlic is regarded as being very medicinal for the gut, being both highly animicrobial and prebiotic.

Personally I struggle to digest raw garlic and do experience substantial digestive upset but it is still essential that I keep my intake up or my respiratory infections are impossible to handle.

But I don't think people realize that garlic IS a drug itself. It has very powerful effects on the brain. Airpilots are not allowed to consume garlic because it impairs their reaction time.

It has its upds and its downs, and the case is definitely not closed either way.

Adds a bit of flavour to my curry sauce not to mention. Personally I don't think I could live without it.

Any sort of romance is totally out of the question with my illness as well, so I don't have that concern to contend with.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

There is speculation that garlic and onions cause some percentage of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. The last time I had any appreciable amount of garlic was by accident about 20 years ago. In a restaurant I ordered a bowl of a traditional pumpkin soup which I make at home myself sans garlic; it is a traditional recipe from Burgenland my grandmother passed down and garlic was never used in it . . . so the bowl of soup comes out, and it is manifestly so full of garlic that it is practically glowing. I am actually not sure why I took the few spoonfuls I did -- maybe I was willing to try it because I knew of ways to counter the problem with the smell with vegetables and the inert parts of the poppy, but my stomach started growling and 70 minutes later it was time for a projectile vomiting session that reminded me of accounts of Nalline Challenge Tests . . . at least I didn't start spewing out the other end . . .

 

[Jungo871]

I'm just going to order some not read the whole post but white bali seems to be the strongest

 

[AutoTripper]

There is also speculation that garlic and onions cause some percentage of Irritable Bowel Syndromw

Yes they really are not easy foods to digest at all and ideally want a strong digestive system for them also some people how much better able to handle them than others depending on your constitution- and the whole concept of of Tailoring your diet to your specific body.

I would gladly avoid garlic but it just isn't really an option for me.

And the hindues warn about its negative effects on consciousness. It makes us ingorant and can aggravate a temper. Again nature's great irony whereby something so medicinal in many ways, comes with a sting in the tail.

God (as in, "God"), why do you make all of these great things for us to consume and enjoy, and throw in so many negatives?

 

[AutoTripper]

There is speculation that garlic and onions cause some percentage of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. The last time I had any appreciable amount of garlic was by accident about 20 years ago. In a restaurant I ordered a bowl of a traditional pumpkin soup which I make at home myself sans garlic; it is a traditional recipe from Burgenland my grandmother passed down and garlic was never used in it . . . so the bowl of soup comes out, and it is manifestly so full of garlic that it is practically glowing. I am actually not sure why I took the few spoonfuls I did -- maybe I was willing to try it because I knew of ways to counter the problem with the smell with vegetables and the inert parts of the poppy, but my stomach started growling and 70 minutes later it was time for a projectile vomiting session that reminded me of accounts of Nalline Challenge Tests . . . at least I didn't start spewing out the other end . . .

Well I think it's probably not so clear-cut to be honest. They are different strains with different effects and profiles and all complement each other some are more suited for for particular situations for certain individuals.

I think Bali Kratom is basically Borneo right? Green Malay is fairly strong itself appears to have the longest duration.

It is particularly uplifting when I'm on a good dose I almost find it difficult to sit down it makes me want to keep getting up and moving around.

I dont think Green Malay is actually the best strain for anxiety because it doesn't really quiet and my thoughts down not that it promotes excessive thinking or anxiety.

The Borneo strains would probably be more suited particularly Red.
But crucially- it isn't just about picking the strongest strain or one particular strain and sticking with that because you will develop a tolerance to the kratom and rotating strains is the sensible approach to countering this and keeping the effects consistent and fresh.

So bear that in mind. See my comments in this thread about potentiating the kratom as well because you may be able to keep that in mind.

And please do tell us all about it in due course. Have fun man I hope you like it.

 

[Xorkoth]

There is speculation that garlic and onions cause some percentage of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. The last time I had any appreciable amount of garlic was by accident about 20 years ago. In a restaurant I ordered a bowl of a traditional pumpkin soup which I make at home myself sans garlic; it is a traditional recipe from Burgenland my grandmother passed down and garlic was never used in it . . . so the bowl of soup comes out, and it is manifestly so full of garlic that it is practically glowing. I am actually not sure why I took the few spoonfuls I did -- maybe I was willing to try it because I knew of ways to counter the problem with the smell with vegetables and the inert parts of the poppy, but my stomach started growling and 70 minutes later it was time for a projectile vomiting session that reminded me of accounts of Nalline Challenge Tests . . . at least I didn't start spewing out the other end . . .

My girlfriend has stomach issues and any amount of garlic or onion beyond a tiny hint will cause her problems. Raw is much worse than cooked but even well-cooked will do it, but the threshold is higher. I've had to learn how to cook delicious savory/umami flavors without it.... before I considered onion the most important part of anything savory.

God damn I love onion. The smell of sauteeing onion with butter is incredible.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

^ Mmmm I'm thinking of a Greek salad with grilled onions, grilled chicken, beets and feta cheese on it. Those grilled onions are so delicious. hehe

Yes good point I realize I have been taking this effect for granted. I am long term psychologically addicted to cannabis which I vaporize daily. It is a situation I have long needed to address my relationship with the plant enormously if I am to move forward in life.

But I have been in such a deep trench of of depression and hopelessness finding it really impossible to look forward with any sort of optimism or hope, so keeping belief and finding incentive has been out of my reach for so long.

I have been able to reduce my cannabis intake substantially with the help of the Kratom. Obviously it doesn't truly count because I'm no less cained overall, and you could argue that I am substituting.

Still, it has helped me to step back slightly and take a different view of the picture. I definitely don't feel as dependent on cannabis psychologically. Im still using it, but aiming to use it minimally and appropriately which currently I am managing very easily with the help of the kratom and a different way of feeling and looking at things.

Whatever comes from my verging Kratom addiction in a (physical sense on me I'm pretty sure I was mentally addicted from day one), I feel that overall there will be some positive lifestyle benefits and influences.
One unusual difference in my case, I do suffer with respiratory aggravation with the kratom. So when it comes to stopping or breaking, once I am bored or have enough reasons and incentive, I will get a little extra incentive because my breathing and allergy symptoms will be far easier without the kratom.

But @CoastTwoCoast your point is so relevant because the kratom is very useful for levelling the anxiety effects from cannabis, which I do definitely suffer with much more currently in life due to my highly inflamed anxiety disorder.

Cannabis both helps and hurts. But the kratom combines so well with the feeling of the cannabis and greatly increases the positive euphoria side of it.
And I just sort of top up my kratom and edible with vapor, so it isn't even like I'm even trying to get stoned or high.

So I imagine that for somebody like yourself maybe doesn't have such a severe anxiety disorder as me currently, but I'll still prone to the anxiety effects of cannabis, combining it with kratom should help substantially to remedy that and make for a much more comfortable and enjoyable experience all round.

I haven't ordered any kanna just yet by the way there was a typo in my post which I edited and it said bought instead of thought so I figured you might have thought I had already ordered some kanna.

Im interested for sure. If you do try some cannabis with the kratom combination I would be really interested to hear a little reports on the experience and how much you feel it helps it doesn't help with the anxiety. And just how it goes in general, I'm just interested in seeing if others get anywhere near the same level of enjoyment from the synergy.

I'm worried for you because of the respiratory aggravation you mentioned from kratom. What exactly is it doing to your breathing?

I'm sorry you feel such depression and hopelessness. I suffer from that too from time to time. Kratom helps with my anxiety disorder and depression symptoms. Kratom is psychologically addicting. That's one of the reasons I order it all the time. Kratom isn't doing any damage as far as I can tell, but I wish I didn't feel like I need it.