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Which now illegal research chemical would you want more of?

Actually it is... the R6 subs (AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, PRO-LAD, etc) are more difficult to synth than LSD, in fact until recent techniques were developed they required you to produce LSD and then further react the LSD into AL-LAD/etc. The yields from the precursors are also much lower than for LSD. For this reason, the produces of AL-LAD and ETH-LAD have stated they will not produce any more as it is not economically viable, so those two are likely to go the way of the unicorn soon too, unless someone else decides to do it.

I'm not saying it's not possible, it certainly is and in fact I'd be surprised if some of the brilliant minds synthesizing LSD and distributing it back then weren't experimenting with other lysergamides too. Just saying, it's notably more difficult and less efficient. My guess is at least that the vast majority of cases of people saying "this acid is different than that acid" is due to placebo/the power of suggestion, which, as you say, is a particularly powerful factor with psychedelics. In fact in psychedelic research before the demonization of psychedelics, there was tremendous variation in the style of trips, incidence of bad trips, and incidence of powerful/life-changing experiences simply based on the way and the setting in which the drug was administered. When people were guided and told to expect a positive/spiritual experience, and told how to navigate the experience if/when it got difficult, the incidence of life-changing trips increased hugely compared to when the drug was given with no guidance in a cold, clinical environment (or the horrid experiments done on prisoners with it), and the incidence of bad trips was greatly reduced. In all cases though, it was pure, pharmaceutical-grade LSD. Modern research bears this out, too. The power of suggestion is extremely powerful with psychedelics. Trying to attribute bad trips to something besides LSD and good trips to LSD is missing a big part of the entire picture with psychedelics in general.

Fair play I didn't know that. When AL-LAD hit the RC scene and was all legal over here it was being sold far cheaper than LSD so I assumed it wasn't more difficult to make. I guess then the price difference is explained by the fact LSD is more pricey due to being on the black market. Although surely the same, presumably highly controlled, precursors must be used to create both? It must truly be down to the lack of legal risk in creating and transporting the finished product.

But yes I agree with what you say about the placebo effect. After all both the CIA and Charles Manson used the stuff for mind control, successfully too I might add. Well sort of. MKULTRA is more complex than shoving LSD down someone's gob and mind controlling them. Manson was able to use it to his advantage because he had willing subjects. You can hypnotise anyone if they are a willing subject. LSD certainly helps a lot but isn't necessary, just a "shortcut" if you like. The CIA did experiments on some willing subjects that were successful, but as far as we know they were unable to hypnotise unwilling subjects. That being said, we only know of a very small number of the documented MKULTRA experiments, the vast majority of the documents were destroyed. So ya never know.

Anyway back on topic... if as you say it's only recent synthesis methods that made AL-LAD production viable, it is more likely placebo than mass production of AL-LAD with the yellow tabs. I am guessing the modern AL-LAD production is no longer viable simply because it's now illegal in most countries where it was once sold as an RC.
 
Over here in America, LSD is far cheaper than all the legal lyseragmides, even 1p-LSD and ALD-52. It's about as cheap as it was in the 90s if you go to dark parts of the web. AL-LAD is much more expensive, though that might not have been the case when it first came out as LSD has gotten much cheaper since then, most likely someone is making a shit ton of it again like in the 90s, is my guess. But yeah, as far as I know, same precursors.

AL-LAD synthesis was always viable, just from my understanding it's modern methods that have made it possible to not produce LSD as an intermediary step. Before, the only known synthesis route required you to make LSD first and go from there. This is what I heard through the grapevine anyway (about new routes that don't require LSD). These new routes make it viable for a known company to produce them in mass quantities for long periods of time and not get raided.

I was told in an email from the producer that the reason they've stopped is because it's not economically viable and they're making tons more money from the R1 subs (1p-LSD and ALD-52). None of the lysergamides but LSD itself are illegal in the USA or anywhere in the Americas as far as I know, there's still a huge market.
 
3-FPM is still all over the place, I wish I liked it but I find it not very recreational.
 
MXE is the one I know is illegal now that I would love to try. The methaqualone analogs sound interesting. PCP analogs are also quite cool (O-PCE is of main interest). Fentanyl analogs would be fun but dangerous as hell. I believe the schedule status of those three make analogs illegal.
 
I just really, really miss MXE. Nothing quite like it. To me it's classified as a 'classic' up there with LSD and the like.
 
Over here in America, LSD is far cheaper than all the legal lyseragmides, even 1p-LSD and ALD-52. It's about as cheap as it was in the 90s if you go to dark parts of the web. AL-LAD is much more expensive, though that might not have been the case when it first came out as LSD has gotten much cheaper since then, most likely someone is making a shit ton of it again like in the 90s, is my guess. But yeah, as far as I know, same precursors.

AL-LAD synthesis was always viable, just from my understanding it's modern methods that have made it possible to not produce LSD as an intermediary step. Before, the only known synthesis route required you to make LSD first and go from there. This is what I heard through the grapevine anyway (about new routes that don't require LSD). These new routes make it viable for a known company to produce them in mass quantities for long periods of time and not get raided.

I was told in an email from the producer that the reason they've stopped is because it's not economically viable and they're making tons more money from the R1 subs (1p-LSD and ALD-52). None of the lysergamides but LSD itself are illegal in the USA or anywhere in the Americas as far as I know, there's still a huge market.

Can't discuss specific pricing on here obviously but AL-LAD and 1P-LSD were the main RC lysergamides doing the rounds here before the blanket ban came in and both were at least half the price of most DNM LSD even from resellers. ETH-LAD was around for a select few who knew the producers but wasn't mass marketed and therefore was more expensive. I never saw ALD-52 around anywhere that I can remember.

You could buy as little as 25 tabs of AL-LAD or 1P-LSD and you could pay a quarter of the price of LSD per tab or less, easy.

I think the UK was seriously one of the major markets for RC's. We have a history with them too - between 2007-2010 mephedrone became the second most popular drug in the entire country while there was a coke and MDMA drought. Since that drought ended and mephedrone was made illegal it isn't topping any lists these days but it's still a common street (and DNM) drug. So we didn't tend to see RC's as something to resort to if you couldn't get a dealer, but rather as good drugs in their own right, especially pre-PSA when they were cheap and pure and anyone with a credit card and a laptop could have them in their letterbox by tomorrow.

So we were buying a fuckload of these things. Psychedelics and empathogens in particular since the UK drug scene loves "party drugs."

Surprisingly though, benzos were the top seller throughout all RC websites, etizolam leading the way. I knew sites set up only to sell the lysergamides that also ended up selling benzos too just because they were so high in demand it was an easy way to keep business going strong.

I found it strange the media largely ignored how huge RC benzos were, there was only one scare story about etizolam and that's it, and it stayed legal right up until the blanket ban. So it was absolutely no surprise to me when after the PSA became law, that's when pressed bars suddenly became a thing in the UK. A market had been opened for potent benzos in a country that was used to only diazepam. Alprazolam, being potent and having that established "Xanax" brand hype, was the perfect new drug to fill it. And it was easy to ask the same labs knocking out etizolam to produce alprazolam.

The media doesn't seem to be making this connection but to me it is very obvious. The marketing of pressed bars on the DNM began only after the PSA was announced and sales only exploded after it passed. Considering the immense popularity of etizolam and others, it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.

We also had more RC benzo selection than the US did at the time. Keep in mind I'm talking 2010-2016 here. But we were always one of the first countries to get a lot of the novel benzos way before the US including flubromazepam, flubromazolam, nifixiopam, diclazepam, pyrazolam, clonazolam, meclonazepam, nitrazolam, etc. Sweden was the producer of some of those (e.g. f-lam and clonazolam) but literally within a month of any new benzo being invented, every single UK RC site was stocking it.

Now those days are over and what do you know, alprazolam everywhere. Black market benzo demand hasn't been this high since the 90's.

Anyway, bit of a tangent I guess, but I do miss the days when you could buy hundreds of blistered Etizest super cheap and legal on the clearnet. I far prefer that to these dodgy pressed bars we now have because the only guys pressing good ones got busted.

I also miss AL-LAD, it was a pretty fun lysergamide with much more of a "happy" headspace than acid, shorter duration too, more of a chill casual trip.
 
Yeah I also love AL-LAD. I have maybe a dozen left and I have them vacuum sealed in the freezer. No idea if I'll ever be able to get more. But yeah back in 2010, LSD was more expensive, in the past couple of years it's plummeted in price. I can get good LSD on the DNMs for less than half the price of AL-LAD/ETH-LAD and less than 1p/1a-LSD. But it does seem that the UK had its own scene going on, with a lot of UK vendors not shipping elsewhere. Sucks you guys had that blanket ban. With how the US was back in the day, I used to expect us to be the most draconian on this stuff but it's still easy to get most anything here.
 
Uh yes AL LAD.... I had quite a lot of enjoyable experiences with it... I always thought it had an anxiolytic property to it, similar to MDMA.
I have had something happen to me or a friend during a few trips that should've been upsetting but instead wasn't at all.
 
Notice a lot of people talking about LSD analogues. Why would you pursue them as opposed to the just as illegal LSD? Do they have substantial differences in effect or duration?

Seems that it would be more likely to get what you're offered if looking for analogues which is a plus. I don't know much about the subject as I fell in love with LSD years ago and binged on psychs for a few months straight.
 
Well, as a psychedelic enthusiast, I enjoy the differences between LSD analogues and LSD. AL-LAD in particular is substantially more euphoric and a bit empathogenic, and has very different visuals, it's very clearly a different, but similar, drug. Also the duration is a few hours shorter. ETH-LAD is also a markedly different drug, in a different way. I mean if someone who hadn't tripped before or hadn't done many psychedelics asked, I'd just recommend LSD to them because it's still the most well-rounded and my favorite of them overall. But I prefer to have the choice, myself.

In terms of ALD-52 and 1p-LSD, they are just pro-drugs for LSD, they turn into LSD once you've ingested them. The point there is simply to bypass illegality.
 
I would say that I have seen seeing people used to take loads of amphetamine on aMT, and clearly they feel the psychedelic side much more than the stim side.
After abusing MDMA a little Psilocybine felt unpleasant. As if the side effects got enhanced. aMT feels pretty much the same but it seems devoid of any notable psychedelic effect's. Just the headspace and side effects.

Well, as a psychedelic enthusiast, I enjoy the differences between LSD analogues and LSD. AL-LAD in particular is substantially more euphoric and a bit empathogenic, and has very different visuals, it's very clearly a different, but similar, drug. Also the duration is a few hours shorter. ETH-LAD is also a markedly different drug, in a different way. I mean if someone who hadn't tripped before or hadn't done many psychedelics asked, I'd just recommend LSD to them because it's still the most well-rounded and my favorite of them overall. But I prefer to have the choice, myself.

In terms of ALD-52 and 1p-LSD, they are just pro-drugs for LSD, they turn into LSD once you've ingested them. The point there is simply to bypass illegality.

LSD analog's still feel the same as LSD, luckily. Lysergics are not affected by it somehow. ALD is so nice, I hope it never will be added to this list. It topped my LSD and 1P trips.

1P-LSD and ALD are as far as I am concerned 2 different drugs. Maybe I will change my opinion. But they seemed to have a clearly diff effect. Mental and visual. Very curious to my further experiments including Al-Lad. And what I find on the exterior, the analog. and the interior, me.
 
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Yeah I also love AL-LAD. I have maybe a dozen left and I have them vacuum sealed in the freezer. No idea if I'll ever be able to get more. But yeah back in 2010, LSD was more expensive, in the past couple of years it's plummeted in price. I can get good LSD on the DNMs for less than half the price of AL-LAD/ETH-LAD and less than 1p/1a-LSD. But it does seem that the UK had its own scene going on, with a lot of UK vendors not shipping elsewhere. Sucks you guys had that blanket ban. With how the US was back in the day, I used to expect us to be the most draconian on this stuff but it's still easy to get most anything here.

I haven't checked the market more recently, I have about ~8 acid tabs wrapped in tinfoil in a cool dark spot, and I trip so rarely that this will probably last me a while. It's good to hear acid prices have gone down though, and I hope that trend has made its way to our side of the pond too! We need more teens dropping acid instead of popping bars.

And yeah our scene was definitely whole own thing and it was substantial. When mephedrone was massive, it was basically a UK phenomenon. It saw very little use in the US. But over here far from just being something you resorted to, it became a craze in and of itself. It was literally the second most popular drug in the country, overtaking cocaine and MDMA, for years.

When that ban came in the media focused only on "spice" for the most part to demonise it all as much as possible but there was much much more going on.

Sadly our last PM, Theresa May, architect of the blanket ban along with the snooper's charter and a bunch of failed porn blocking laws, was probably the most draconian politician we've had in power for a while. She has finally resigned but now we just hope whoever replaces her is actually any better. It'll likely be Boris so... yeah.

 
Yeah that blanket ban sucks. I used to feel like the USA was the most draconian country in terms of drug laws (among "western" nations) but I no longer feel that way.
 
And yeah our scene was definitely whole own thing and it was substantial. When mephedrone was massive, it was basically a UK phenomenon. It saw very little use in the US. But over here far from just being something you resorted to, it became a craze in and of itself. It was literally the second most popular drug in the country, overtaking cocaine and MDMA, for years.

Although I didn't jump on I caught on pretty fast that 4-MMC was special. It wasn't to long after my discovery of the UK's, and previously Israel's, precious gem on the internet the first tv shows ed about Miauw Miauw users started popping up over here. The ban was global, so it never had time to explode like in the UK. But it would have just like with the GHB/ GBL epidemic that is still going strong in the bible belt and rural area's.

It would have gone the sameway in popularity as 4-FA/ 4-fluoroAmphetamine wouldn't it have been banned. 4-FA reached stardom status over here like Mephedrone in the UK. Matching MDMA and Speed in popularity, till the eventual ban on it. Not a personal favorite of mine, interesting at best.
 
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Although I didn't jump on I caught on pretty fast that 4-MMC was special. It wasn't to long after my discovery of the UK's, and previously Israel's, precious gem on the internet the first tv shows ed about Miauw Miauw users started popping up over here. The ban was global, so it never had time to explode like in the UK. But it would have just like with the GHB/ GBL epidemic that is still going strong in the bible belt and rural area's.

It would have gone the sameway in popularity as 4-FA/ 4-fluoroAmphetamine wouldn't it have been banned. 4-FA reached stardom status over here like Mephedrone in the UK. Matching MDMA and Speed in popularity, till the eventual ban on it. Not a personal favorite of mine, interesting at best.

I've never had a chance to have a go at the FA's. I'd be interested to give both 2-FA and 4-FA a go. Mate of mine has even said 4-FA is better than MDMA.

I have read that 4-MMC has become pretty big in Russia and surrounding countries as well curiously enough.
 
If it's better is more of a personal view, but they share some characteristic's. Being on Dex probably has spoiled me Amphetically, and the long duration of 4-FA made it useless anyway. I allready am stimmed so no need for the drawn out aftermath of 4-FA which follows the MDMA-lite like initual effects.

3-FA is rumored to be a top knotch material, as functional stimulant. Not like 4-FA. But it wouldn't surprise me if these series carries some risk's. The fluorinated amps.
 
I've never had a chance to have a go at the FA's. I'd be interested to give both 2-FA and 4-FA a go. Mate of mine has even said 4-FA is better than MDMA.

I tried 2FA and 2FMA, while not extremely powerful IMHO they feel fantastic, much better than Amphetamine Sulphate/EU speed... way more CNS stimulation and MUCH less peripheral side effects.
Felt less adrenergic and more dopaminergic as well. Active at 10 or 20mg, but I could take over 100mg snorted in a few hours and be fine and sit still and play videogames with no heart jumping out of my chest feel and my nostrils barely flared.
2FMA I vaped with great success from a meth pipe, 2FA I didn't try.
They both have a weird serene/calm feel to them for me, which feels much better than the urgency typical of Amphetamine.
 
I tried 2FA and 2FMA, while not extremely powerful IMHO they feel fantastic, much better than Amphetamine Sulphate/EU speed... way more CNS stimulation and MUCH less peripheral side effects.
Felt less adrenergic and more dopaminergic as well. Active at 10 or 20mg, but I could take over 100mg snorted in a few hours and be fine and sit still and play videogames with no heart jumping out of my chest feel and my nostrils barely flared.
2FMA I vaped with great success from a meth pipe, 2FA I didn't try.
They both have a weird serene/calm feel to them for me, which feels much better than the urgency typical of Amphetamine.

From how you describe it 2-FA sounds very similar to dex. Very little physical stimulation but a nice clean mental stimulation. Ability to sit back and feel calm in the right setting. That's basically how dex feels vs. regular racemic amphetamine which is far dirtier.

@emkee_reinvented I too feel spoiled by dex, seems like most of the negative effects people describe with amphetamine are taken care of by banishing the levoamphetamine already. I feel sorry for my Yank cousins that they get scripted Adderall instead, which seems inferior to dex but was brought to market purely because it was able to be patented after the dex patent wore off. Never brought to the UK because the NHS doesn't buy up similar, arguably slightly worse, drugs just because they're patented.

I think this is why the Yanks began loving Vyvanse so much too. It metabolises directly into dex. So they've got their clean pharma speed back.
 
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