Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[Pixies]

So, I'm confused on how it's working for me (first time user). The first time I did the two big scoops in my mouth, and wash with water. Awful. No effect. 2nd try: Made the tea, 3 big scoops. Gross. No effect. 3rd times the charm, I make pills with empty gel caps, swallow 13 (Probably about 500-600mg per so about 6-7g). Awesome effect, very opiod-esque. 4th time, same amount of pills later that night. Terrible effects. Sweating and anxiety. No euphoria. 5th time: Same amount of pills. No effect, bad or good. 6th time: Same amount of pills. No effect again. Very confused and frustrated... Can anyone shed some light? I bought a 'Super Green' strain, that I had high hopes for. Aside from that 3rd time, which was awesome, I feel like I'm missing something. Thanks in advance.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

^The 4th time could have been an overdose if you dosed later that night after taking the 3rd.

Regarding the other times, iirc you have a tolerance to opioids, right ? Maybe your tolerance is too high for kratom ?

 

[Pixies]

^The 4th time could have been an overdose if you dosed later that night after taking the 3rd.

Regarding the other times, iirc you have a tolerance to opioids, right ? Maybe your tolerance is too high for kratom ?

I'm only wearing x1 12mcg Fentanyl Patch atm. I would have figured that would be low enough to take effect. So, I'm guessing there is a set amount of grams you don't want to go over at once or in one day? Any general ranges for these would be appreciated it. I want to say, now that my scale came, 13 of them was about 9 grams, based on how tight I packed them. So, I'm just not sure if I'm taking too many or not enough. I tried lowering my doses today, and still haven't found that "sweet-spot" again.

 

[Pixies]

I'm only wearing x1 12mcg Fentanyl Patch atm. I would have figured that would be low enough to take effect. So, I'm guessing there is a set amount of grams you don't want to go over at once or in one day? Any general ranges for these would be appreciated it. I want to say, now that my scale came, 13 of them was about 9 grams, based on how tight I packed them. So, I'm just not sure if I'm taking too many or not enough. I tried lowering my doses today, and still haven't found that "sweet-spot" again.

Just did 10 grams, after purging. Feeling pretty decent now. I'm still so confused by my body and this stuff...

EDIT: Feeling REALLY good.

 

[dus_aster]

The difference between a kratom high and six hours of very mild analgesia and light sedation is stomach contents, in my experience.
If I ingest doses over four grams on anything but an empty stomach, the perceivable high is drastically effected; obviously ymmv, but something to bear in mind.

Fwiw, I've found that less is sometimes more with this stuff- take breaks and try to avoid pushing your dosage too high into the two digit range (I've found it useful to avoid accounting for tolerance when calculating dosage; if my usual dose doesn't work, it's time to stop until it does.)
Hope this heeeeelpsssssssss

 

[Pixies]

The difference between a kratom high and six hours of very mild analgesia and light sedation is stomach contents, in my experience.
If I ingest doses over four grams on anything but an empty stomach, the perceivable high is drastically effected; obviously ymmv, but something to bear in mind.

Fwiw, I've found that less is sometimes more with this stuff- take breaks and try to avoid pushing your dosage too high into the two digit range (I've found it useful to avoid accounting for tolerance when calculating dosage; if my usual dose doesn't work, it's time to stop until it does.)
Hope this heeeeelpsssssssss

Yep, I find this to be true, now. I also think taking a medication like Prilosec for heartburn DOES NOT HELP the Kratom high. I think it had alot to do with the fact that I had just thrown up, and thus had more stomach acid in it, on an empty stomach. It still nearly took 1 1/2-2 hours for it to kick in, without ingesting anything else besides water or Gatorade. Today, my 10g doesn't feel AS good as last nights, but I still feel it a little. The difference? I took Prilosec early this morning. Waited till about 4pm to take it, and still feel like my stomach acid is just not breaking it down fast enough.

 

[Mycophile]

The difference between a kratom high and six hours of very mild analgesia and light sedation is stomach contents, in my experience.
If I ingest doses over four grams on anything but an empty stomach, the perceivable high is drastically effected; obviously ymmv, but something to bear in mind.

Fwiw, I've found that less is sometimes more with this stuff- take breaks and try to avoid pushing your dosage too high into the two digit range (I've found it useful to avoid accounting for tolerance when calculating dosage; if my usual dose doesn't work, it's time to stop until it does.)
Hope this heeeeelpsssssssss

I used a lot of Kratom for 2 years and never felt i needed to have an empty stomach for good effects at all.

Then again, I also did not follow the very smart advice you gave about not continuing to raise your dosage.

Mine got as high as an ounce to get me high at one point, at which point I took a break.

But consistently I got good effects from around 14 grams a dose.

That's a high dose for a lot of people, but I'd still have needed a lot on an empty stomach.

Granted, I do remember getting even more high when using it on an empty stomach, but that wasn't at all necessary for me, and I never liked starving myself to get high.

My highs also never lasted six hours, more like 4.

Of all the things people say about Kratom, that has never been true for me, but I'm sure it is for some.

 

[dus_aster]

@mycophile-
Interesting, thanks for the input regarding my empty stomach comment!
An ounce...yeah, man, I've been there too, and 14G used to be my sweet spot as well.
I generally note a pretty major reduction (x<40% by my totally unscientific guestimation) in efficacy taking it on an empty stomach, but thank you for pointing out that this doesn't necessarily hold true for everyone

 

[i are spectre]

Hi!

What strain/type do you think is easiest to get off kratom?

For instance, when I had a heavy benzo habit, getting off klonopin/clonazepam was a million times easier than getting off xanax/alprazolam or valium/diazepam.

See what I am asking?

Thank you!

 

[SS373dOH]

^ It's subjective.. certain strains have different effects. Some are more 'opiate' like, and some are more stimulating.. so it depends on what you're shooting for.

 

[dus_aster]

Hi!

What strain/type do you think is easiest to get off kratom?

For instance, when I had a heavy benzo habit, getting off klonopin/clonazepam was a million times easier than getting off xanax/alprazolam or valium/diazepam.

See what I am asking?

Thank you!

In general, the most efficacious strain for whatever condition you are treating/effect you are trying to achieve will be the most difficult to stop using (psychologically, not physiologically)
If you treat pain with kratom, the more opiate-like strains would (likely) be more difficuly to come off.
If you use kratom as a prosocial tool, the more stimulating strains would (likely) be more difficult to come off.

Source-
I'm on seven drugs rn and can't find the exact page, but it's from the seventh edition of Drugs & Behavior (an introduction to behavioral pharmacology), McKim, Hancock

ED: somethingsomething behavioral and pharmacological tolerance builds faster and reinforcing properties are stronger when a perceived physiological or psychological deficit is being alleviated by X drug i think idk

ED2: thanks for the info, Pixies

 

[furryfreek]

"stem & vien" kratom is generally reported to be good for lowering tolerance to other strains due to its differing alkaloid content. The only catch is that larger doses of stem & vain are subjectively nicer IMO (more opiate-like than others) so while it may be good for lowering tolerance to other strains, it could potentially be worse if trying to quit altogether.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

"stem & vien" kratom is generally reported to be good for lowering tolerance to other strains due to its differing alkaloid content. The only catch is that larger doses of stem & vain are subjectively nicer IMO (more opiate-like than others) so while it may be good for lowering tolerance to other strains, it could potentially be worse if trying to quit altogether.

I was also going to mention this. Using stem and vein is supposed to be good for reducing tolerance or tapering use, but you of course still need to actually reduce your doses!

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I have two separate things I want to discuss:

I've noticed an increase in night time erections while sleeping during the night after dosing kratom. It's occuring 6 to 16hrs after dosing and it only occurs while sleeping.

I fall asleep fine but I tend to wake up a million times a night normally and if I have dosed kratom earlier in the day, I wake up with an erection that won't go away easily. I wake up quite often and it seems I have a constant erection the entire night sometimes. It takes awhile to go down after waking up (atleast 20 minutes). It becomes quite uncomfortable and annoying at times.

Does anyone else have this problem or atleast have heard of it? I have taken, experimented and abused an awfully long list of substances and have never experienced anything like this (excluding Viagra or Cialis)

I can only guess that kratom (or rather kratom metabolites, considering this occurs 6 to 16 hrs after dosing) is effecting blood vessels/flow.

It's just odd though, because I can have a normal erection before bed and it would go down normnory but if I wake up with these "kratom erections" they last a long time and become bothersome.

_____________________

A kratom high is generally considered to only last a few hours... Like 3 or 4 right?

I'm sure this is variable based on many factors (individual, drug, dose, etc) but for about how long would a 10g dose of kratom be expected to keep someone out of opiate withdrawals for?

Thank you

 

[The Forgotten]

Got a Beginner's Pack from a place. Red Vein Meng Da, Green Vein Malay, and White Vein Bali. Looked like a deal to me. (Been researching.) This will be my first time, so I plan on taking it slow and seeing how my body handles it. Any suggestions from other Kratom users? Should I be concerned about potential interactions with hydrochlorathizide, spironolactine, furosomide, omeprazole, and Advair Diskus Inahaler? Also, hearing a lot about potential liver toxicity, I'm taking Milk Thistle, as I'm on an aspirin regimen for my osteoarthritis. 175mg of Milk Thistle three times a day. (Self administered, that last one.)

I plan on using a low dose in the morning for productivity, and an opiate dose at night. I'm a big guy, about 460 with mild hypertension. (Ergo the hydrochlorathizide.) Other than that, only problems I've had is light atherosclerosis. I do have gastric reflux (ergo the omeprazole) and I smoke about two packs a day, though I am switching to vape and hopefully staying on it this time. I do not drink (very little, anyways) As in I used to drink about once a year or so, and would drink heavily at one time. I don't drink now, as my meds dinnae like the alcohol, LOL I was administered mobic for osteoarthritis pain. but have discontinued (self) after seeing some reactions I didn't like.

Also, as I am on the meds for fluid retention specifically, should I be worried about the main toxicology post-mortem issue with many of these so-called Kratom deaths, which is "pulmonary congestion and edema and a distended bladder, both of which are consistent with, though not diagnostic of, opiate use."--https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232526745_A_Drug_Fatality_Involving_Kratom

I know Kratom's effect largely vary by individual, but I don't want to do anything stupid (moreso than smoking and eating the wrong things) and end up as one of the rare statistics of fatality in cases which involved (along with a shitton of other drugs usually) Kratom. I won't take it if I think there's a serious risk here. :/

 

[Ringo88]

Been having some inner thigh pain/shin pain for the past day or so, especially today. I've taken Kratom 4 out of the last 5 days, but only at doses of 6g max.

I'm also in the process of tapering my Valium, and have gotten down to 6mg from 6.5mg.

Should this be something to worry about?

 

[Mycophile]

IMO you last two guys are worrying too much.

I feel that Kratom is probably quite benign and reports of liver toxicity only come from rare cases of people who for whatever reason can't seem to metabolize it.

I've looked at a few of the reports out there but I still haven't seen a clear cut death attributed to Kratom alone.

There are reports it might be able to make Long QT syndrome worse if you have it, but that particular Web MD report didn't really indicate whether or not they thought it could cause it, and it seemed they weren't saying for sure it could, and also, they were talking about isolated alkaloids, not the whole plant.

Of course, we still don't really know a whole lot about the long term health effects of regular Kratom use and HOPEFULLY it will stay legal but one good thing that COULD come out of the attention the DEA and FDA have brought to it would be actual scientific studies being run.

I'm going to be pessimistically realistic though, and say that I don't even believe it will probably be legal past December 1st and that not many LEGIT tests will be run.

It would be great if INSTEAD of trying to help the DEA ban Kratom, the FDA just did quality control on it like it was food and made sure there were no extra additives, and more scientists studied it.

But to you guys worrying about every little possible medical concern here, I wouldn't spend much time thinking about it.

I took MOUNTAINS of it and really felt like it was pretty benign.

I REALLY hope it stays legal.

 

[The Forgotten]

IMO you last two guys are worrying too much.

I feel that Kratom is probably quite benign and reports of liver toxicity only come from rare cases of people who for whatever reason can't seem to metabolize it.

I've looked at a of the reports out there but I still haven't seen a clear cut death attributed to Kratom alone.

There are reports it might be able to make Long QT syndrome worse if you have it, but that particular Web MD report didn't really indicate whether or not they thought it could cause it, and it seemed they weren't saying for sure it could, and also, they were talking about isolated alkaloids, not the whole plant.

Of course, we still don't really know a whole lot about the long term health effects of regular Kratom use and HOPEFULLY it will stay legal but one good thing that COULD come out of the attention the DEA and FDA have brought to it would be actual scientific studies being run.

I'm going to be pessimistically realistic though, and say that I don't even believe it will probably be legal past December 1st and that not many LEGIT tests will be run.

It would be great if INSTEAD of trying to help the DEA ban Kratom, the FDA just did quality control on it like it was food and made sure there were no extra additives, and more scientists studied it.

But to you guys worrying about every little possible medical concern here, I wouldn't spend much time thinking about it.

I took MOUNTAINS of it and really felt like it was pretty benign.

I REALLY hope it stays legal.

I agree with you 100% But the key words I highlighted in your quote are actually my concern. I'm on a concoction of my own here, all prescribed mind you, and have never read about the potential conflicts with these medications. Which probably proves you right about worrying too much, but better safe than sorry, I always say, LOL

Top it all off, never been much of a rec user myself up until a year or so ago. Someone gave me an oxy for pain, and I try to get some when I can. My tolerance is decent, but that's only to the amount I generally take, infrequently, which is usually 10-15mg at nighttime, just before I go to bed. Usually for a week or so in a row. Then I go off until I can get some more, and there's usually a fine wait on that. And I know already 15-20mg is small league dosage with these as well. So there's that too, LOL

 

[Ringo88]

IMO you last two guys are worrying too much.

I feel that Kratom is probably quite benign and reports of liver toxicity only come from rare cases of people who for whatever reason can't seem to metabolize it.

I've looked at a few of the reports out there but I still haven't seen a clear cut death attributed to Kratom alone.

There are reports it might be able to make Long QT syndrome worse if you have it, but that particular Web MD report didn't really indicate whether or not they thought it could cause it, and it seemed they weren't saying for sure it could, and also, they were talking about isolated alkaloids, not the whole plant.

Of course, we still don't really know a whole lot about the long term health effects of regular Kratom use and HOPEFULLY it will stay legal but one good thing that COULD come out of the attention the DEA and FDA have brought to it would be actual scientific studies being run.

I'm going to be pessimistically realistic though, and say that I don't even believe it will probably be legal past December 1st and that not many LEGIT tests will be run.

It would be great if INSTEAD of trying to help the DEA ban Kratom, the FDA just did quality control on it like it was food and made sure there were no extra additives, and more scientists studied it.

But to you guys worrying about every little possible medical concern here, I wouldn't spend much time thinking about it.

I took MOUNTAINS of it and really felt like it was pretty benign.

I REALLY hope it stays legal.

Yeah, I'm not even worried about the QT thing anymore, but these thigh pains are kinda scaring me. I'm a hypchondriac though, so get scared easily. I just don't know what else would be causing them, both of my inner thighs are hurting. Of course my mind thinks of all kinds of issues this could be from...

 

[Mycophile]

I agree with you 100% But the key words I highlighted in your quote are actually my concern. I'm on a concoction of my own here, all prescribed mind you, and have never read about the potential conflicts with these medications. Which probably proves you right about worrying too much, but better safe than sorry, I always say, LOL

Top it all off, never been much of a rec user myself up until a year or so ago. Someone gave me an oxy for pain, and I try to get some when I can. My tolerance is decent, but that's only to the amount I generally take, infrequently, which is usually 10-15mg at nighttime, just before I go to bed. Usually for a week or so in a row. Then I go off until I can get some more, and there's usually a fine wait on that. And I know already 15-20mg is small league dosage with these as well. So there's that too, LOL

What else are you taking with Kratom??

Cause I know what you mean, Kratom isn't well studied enough that we could know of all possible interactions but from my personal usage there would be barely anything I personally have used it be afraid of mixing it with.

NOW the thing is, which SOME of you seem NOT to realize, that if we don't get off our asses and start REALLY making noise to the politicians about Kratom (I've already made a phone call to my representative, signed online petitions and sent emails) that Kratom will probably be illegal as of December 1st.

Are you guys aware of this???

Cause some of you newer posters all interested in Kratom seem to have some bad timing if you do...

That's just one reason why I'm not even buying more now even though I want to: it's already been 7 weeks or so since I've used it and I'm thinking about it less, and I don't feel like stocking up on Kilos, so why would I want to re-introduce myself to a drug I love only to have it taken away a month later???

I figure I might as well try to get over it and move on.

I mean it MIGHT stay legal after December 1st as over 120,000 people and nine senators signed the petition, BUT, the DEA and FDA are STILL trying to make it illegal, and they might end up having their way, even as HORRIBLY corrupt as it is.

The DEA is EVIL and it should stay legal, BUT, lets be realistic guys.

You are probably getting yourself into something that you won't have access to it in 6 weeks unless you decide to buy several kilos worth and stock up.