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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)

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shugenja said:
You are bathing your brain in serotonin -- every day. Not a great idea.
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Could low dose 5-HTP maybe be helpful to bring the serotonin levels to normal and help the serotonin-axons to grow so the brain could eventually produce more serotonin itself? Sorry for asking that question again but this really interests me.
 
Amml said:
Could low dose 5-HTP maybe be helpful to bring the serotonin levels to normal and help the serotonin-axons to grow so the brain could eventually produce more serotonin itself? Sorry for asking that question again but this really interests me.
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Disclosure:

I don't think there is anything wrong with your serotonin axons. The majority of symptoms are not associated with serotonin deficits.

They are however associated with HPA Axis dysregulation -- Adrenaline/Glutamate/GABA

Could this have been caused by the MDMA induced Serotonin and Adrenaline release? -- possibly, maybe even probably considering GABA/Glutamate is modulated by Serotonin (new evidence)

There is no actual evidence of axonal damage in humans caused by the MDMA.

You have all been scared by the Serotonin Brain Damage Boogeyman.

Your symptoms are undeniably real -- however they are not because of damage to your serotonin axons
 
Amml said:
Could low dose 5-HTP maybe be helpful to bring the serotonin levels to normal and help the serotonin-axons to grow so the brain could eventually produce more serotonin itself? Sorry for asking that question again but this really interests me.
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What for?

Your Tryptophan Hydroxylase is not inhibited anymore (it wasn't really that inhibited to begin with -- you were actually synthesizing serotonin the next day after your roll) -- so your body/brain can synthesize serotonin just fine

Now, if you are Ascorbate (vitamin C) deficient, the synthesis of serotonin, dopamine, and nor-epinephrine is inhibited -- Ascorbate is needed for a cofactor -- as well as protects TPH from dopamine inactivation
 
As far as I know it has been shown that a lot of enzymes are reduced in the brain a very long time after mdma use. Look on erowid there you will find it. That would explain the sleeping problems/dp, etc.
But as I read here and on other places it seems to recover, not like in the animal studies…
 
Amml said:
As far as I know it has been shown that a lot of enzymes are reduced in the brain a very long time after mdma use. Look on erowid there you will find it. That would explain the sleeping problems/dp, etc.
But as I read here and on other places it seems to recover, not like in the animal studies…
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No, not for a very long time -- that is inaccurate

Yes, TPH which synthesizes serotonin, can be inhibited after MDMA administration, however, what they don't tell you is:

1. The percentage of inhibition (hint it's not 100% not even 50% at doses people take)
2. A large amount of the inhibition is actually caused by thr high levels of Dopamine (yup dopamine actually inhibits TPH)
3. Anti-oxidants abolish the inhibition prophylactically (like little condoms for your TPH)
4. TPH recovers completely in about a week, even without anti-oxidants (well, unless you are a poor wittle rat that had the equivalent of 10 pills for a human injected into your body cavity twice a day for 4 days)
 
The suppression of TPH by MDMA has been linked to nitric oxide from what I remember.

Some people have variants of TPH that are (for example) 80% less functional (and there is an anecdote of a person having issues with MDMA that has that variant), so that is a factor in reaction to even a small decrease in TPH function from MDMA.
 
Was starting to feel pretty good but the last few days I feel like Ive gone back to almost square 1. Feel like im crazy again, derealisation is really bad, getting slow, shutter style vision and visual snow is really bad too. Felt amazing tuesday, probably the best ive felt the whole time during this shit, now for the past 4 days, I feel as bad as ever. Is it normal to have such a setback and has anyone else experienced horrible DR with shutter style vision? Scary as shit
 
Setbacks are definitely normal - What I took away from them is that the LTC has little to do with injury etc. but rather the more (relatively) short term state of the mind. Practice mindfulness as much as you can.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
The suppression of TPH by MDMA has been linked to nitric oxide from what I remember.

Some people have variants of TPH that are (for example) 80% less functional (and there is an anecdote of a person having issues with MDMA that has that variant), so that is a factor in reaction to even a small decrease in TPH function from MDMA.
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[h=1]Dopamine inactivates tryptophan hydroxylase and forms a redox-cycling quinoprotein: possible endogenous toxin to serotonin neurons.[/h]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9736634
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
I'm not saying dopamine cannot denature TPH, I'm saying that I was under the impression that NO was the suspected culprit in the case of MDMA induced TPH reductions.
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Probably contributes, but MDMA is a massive Dopamine releasing agent as well -- I'm inclined to believe it is both with a major part played by dopamine

I have not seen any NOS data for humans at normal doses.

The doses used in mice during the NOS inhibitor testing were 20, 25 and even 40 mg/kg ip sometimes multiple doses.
 
I concede (without reviewing the NO MDMA TPH literature) they are probably both playing a role, but my question is doesn't dopamine denaturing TPH imply it's gaining access through through the SERT where it could also be causing harm if the endogenous defenses of the nerve terminal are overwhelmed? Whereas NO could just diffuse through the membrane without a serotonin depletion etc. being necessary for uptake of stuff that's not serotonin.

After we reach a conclusion I suggest we delete our posts as to not induce anxiety in these poor LTC sufferers.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
Are you saying there are Biomarkers for an LTC in form of hormone dysregulation?
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What I'm saying is that the symptoms described are much more along the lines of HPA axis dysregulation (Adrenalin/nor-adrenalin, GABA & Glutamate dysfunction) than serotonin.

And yes, elevated cortisol, elevated cortisol response, hypersensitive adrenalin response are all symptoms of HPA axis dysregulation

Actual Biomarkers are

CRH
ACTH
DHEA-sulfate
DHEA
cortisol
AVP
 
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Amml said:
Could low dose 5-HTP maybe be helpful to bring the serotonin levels to normal and help the serotonin-axons to grow so the brain could eventually produce more serotonin itself? Sorry for asking that question again but this really interests me.
Click to expand...

I'll tell you the same thing a mental health professional would - skip 5-HTP, start an SSRI.
 
shugenja said:
There is no actual evidence of axonal damage in humans caused by the MDMA.

You have all been scared by the Serotonin Brain Damage Boogeyman.

Your symptoms are undeniably real -- however they are not because of damage to your serotonin axons
Click to expand...

So what are they?
 
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