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Need advice tapering from kratom after opiate WD

SunSpot

SunSpot

Bluelighter
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
161
Location
The Desert
Hi all,

it's been 15 days since my cold turkey from pod / seed tea, i just knew I was done with it. Obviously the first 10 days were hell on earth, and I caved in and started taking kratom to get some sleep and function. But I'm disgusted with myself for it, i want to be sober!! I'm already taking as little kratom as possible, just enough so my headache is merely 'severe' and not debilitating (I'm also taking ibuprofen but that has lost effectiveness). Does anyone have some tips for tapering from kratom? Should I just cold turkey that too? I know I'd go back into instant WD, i already keep the kratom so low i'm always on the edge of chills. Also, my blood pressure is still dangerously high, 120 to 180ish (I've always had high pressure though not this high, despite eating well, being slim and healthy otherwise. Have a bad kidney). Perhaps I should go to my doctor with it again, but last time no one seemed to know how to get blood pressure down when one kidney is scarred except with pills, and those just make things worse in the long run imo. ok now i'm just ranting but i would really love to hear how someone else has come off a major oral opiod addiciton. the closest to pod tea withdrawal seems to be methadone, if so it looks like i'll have loads more time to enjoy the after effects of living like a cotton-wrapped zombie for so long.

i guess what I'm asking is: should I CT the kratom or taper out slowly? At the end of summer, which method will have me feeling better??
 
Hey, I saw you posted on my PST forum the other day. If I were you I would kick the kratom to the curb. If you haven't used it much, it probably hasnt set you too far back. I'm about one week ahead of you. I slept last night for the most part unaided. If you go to the docs just be honest, they can give you things to get you over the hump. The gabapentin was a help for me to sleep and relax. The doctor gave me enough for 2 months, that I could take 4 times a day! I read up on the stuff and saw it could come with its own issues if taken too long. Gave them to my wife and told her she can give me one every 3 or 4 days if its been bad. You right about the tea being similar to methadone. People have no idea how potent the tea can be and its long half life. They think its a joke, but we know its not. It sits in your gut for a long time. A good batch would have high for 16 hours straight. Good luck and stay strong. If you need any support I'm here.
 
Definitely hit you doctor yp. Ate you able to be honest and open with him about your struggles? A MD is sn invaluable resource, at least the compassionste and smart ones.
 
Good morning, ouch! Cursed headache .. Btw yes ive thought often about getting a Drs help with this, but sadly I've had some bad experiences with the medical establishment (think misdiagnosis etc causing me to lose a kidney and nearly die), so I'm hesitant to go to them again. Another thing is that I'm doing this in total privacy (i hope). Everyone thinks i had aflu or west Nile, which is going around here pretty bad. So if i told a doc wouldn't it enter my medical record?

So today I'll only take 8g kratom extract, 2g less than yday. Then drop by by 2g every 2 days. [MENTION=48300]piP[/MENTION] I'm not new to kratom sadly, it was what i took years ago to keep up with others who were doing stims. I had a bit of a thing about always preferring botanicals as opposed to the sunthetic 'harder' stuff my former college mates were into. As if it were any different. But i will take your advice to heart pip, if this tapering also doesn't let me sleep I'll just drop the kratom entirely and face the music.
 
If you tell your doctor, yes it wull go in your medical record. I understand your concern, I used to be in the same place mental about that. Fearful of how I would be treated by a pretty disfunctuonal medical establishment I mean. But frankly this stuff needs to be in your medical record if you are going to get the best medical care possible. Yes, you will encounter some shitty doctors before you find yourself some good ones, so you willl have to stay strong and keep trying, but if I can do it anyone can.
 
Sigh, I know everyone here is right .. It's a good point actually, the part about looking for a quality Dr. I've decided btw that I'm not taking anymore kratom after finishing the 8g set aside for today, I'm just too fed up with the whole thing. And since I did some mountain climbing yesterday (5.5 miles and 2800ft altitude gain out and back on one of my favorite trails) no one would be surprised if I had a little 'relapse'. When things have settled in a month I must really try to find a Dr. or procedure to help with the chronic high blood pressure. It's unkind to my family if I keep ignoring this. Now, to have some sleep while I still can ..
 
Nice work, I am glad you are coming around. If you decide not to please do not be too hard on yourself. It would be too good of an excuse to relapse ;) 8)

During these trying times, what your need to practice in your every day life is learning to become kinder and more gentle with yourself. Give yourself the space to grow and change and become the person uou so desperately want and in fact need to become! You can do it! <3
 
Thanks, that's excatly what I need to hear:) In my life I'm so much to so many people, you are right sometimes we need to take care of ourselves too. Btw mentally, I'm prepared to let myself slip back into using the rest of the kratom, that wouldn't be cheating. It's sitting right on top of the kitchen counters. But I just don't want to! It's pretty shocking though how quickly WDs started again, woke two hours ago with shivers and all the other good stuff. But it's nothing, *nothing* like in the beginning. On other news I'm planning out the coming weekend to take my mind off things. Maybe take the old lady (ok ok we're really young but have been married for a decade now ..) to a day spa. And I've always wanted to visit the Biosphere 2 near Tucson again, did that years ago and it was fantastic. Their tropical house was so wonderfully warm and .. close. Like a full body humid hug. There. Thinking of this and my chills and headaches are much better!
 
Sunspot: Congrats on taking your first steps towards opium poppy tea cessation. SWIM has been battling opiate addiction for about a decade now, and from all that SWIM has told me, I know just how tough it can be.

My recommendation is just to tough out the opium poppy tea withdrawals. SWIM got off being on Suboxone for 5 years about a month ago, and like an idiot, SWIM went straight to Kratom and started taking it religiously. SWIM felt like it was a God-send initially, but it didn't take long for SWIM to realize that it was just switching one addiction for another. Overall, Kratom will provide a little bit of relief, but it will just prolong the agony that is opiate withdrawal, as Kratom's chief alkaloids trigger the mu, delta, and kappa opiate receptors - just like any opiate derived from Morphine. Yea, it isn't as strong as most opiates, and it is a partial agonist as opposed to a full agonist. So... while it will provide some relief, it is definitely just stringing things out longer than they should be endured if you were just to stop completely.

SWIM's advice is to just develop a taper schedule for the opium poppy tea (likely reducing your dosing by 25% every few days or whatever you can handle). SWIM isn't completely sure on that, as SWIM has never messed with opium poppy tea, but SWIM knows that this is a pretty standard taper schedule for op's. Yes, just taper down to almost nothing, and then just stop. You'll have acute withdrawals (although they will be minimalized due to the taper) for a week MAX, and then you'll have some PAWS (Post Accute Withdrawal Syndrome) symptoms for probably a week or two (but perhaps longer - depending on the duration of your use). SWIM tells me that PAWS really isn't a huge deal as long as you are eating healthy, getting excerise, and just staying active in general. Just laying in your bed constantly thinking about what you are going through just makes it exponentially worse.

In short, Kratom is certainly not the magic-bullet that many make it out to be, SWIM tells me. It is just another crutch, for most people. I don't want to say that it hasn't helped anyone ever, but the potential for abuse is still there - regardless as to what a lot of Kratom enthusiasts will tell you. SWIM is convinced that these Kratom enthusiasts never really had a big opiate or opioid problem to begin with, to be honest.

Oh... and just an afterthought here: SWIM tells me that a good idea when getting off opiates/opioids to go to your doctor, explain the situation to him/her, and request a month's prescription for Clonidine (a blood pressure-lowering medication) to ease withdrawal symptoms. Since withdrawal raises blood pressure significantly, Clonidine provides quite a bit of relief, according to SWIM. I'm told that a prescription of Baclofin (a non-narcotic muscle relaxer) helps tremendously as well to battle the dreaded RLS.

I hope this helps! Best of luck!
 
We do not SWIM here, it is too annoying and doesn't actually do anything in terms of legal protection, but your contributions are all still very much valued here. Stick around, and welcome! :)
 
Hi Enslaved, thanks for the good vibes, right back at ya! I'm actually on day 17 after a CT from the evil tea and latex, and didn't take any kratom today. I don't feel great but much better than this morning! It was weird, there were the chills and even the mental stuff, then I remembered ... MUSIC! It's the one thing that's been my saving grace, I walk around in this cloud of thumping techno music all day. Maybe it's the noradrenaline receptors coming back online.

Our minivan has a good sound system, I wonder what the neighborhood thinks of me now .. But the kids tell me it's awesome! Oh and I took my youngest three to the park today, where this really kind lady just couldn't get over how miserable I looked (told her I might be getting sick, I h8 lying. But isn't it kind of a disease?). So she told me to relax and did a wonderful job watching my baby and toddlers and her own child. It warmed my heart as I sat there trying not twitch my aching muscles. Now I feel like doing something kind today also, not just donate money. Ideas??
 
Glad you had a decent day SunSpot! Kudos for getting out and doing something also - it's hard when you don't feel well. You're doing a great job!
 
Hi [MENTION=408708]The Enslaved[/MENTION], welcome to Bluelight!! Thanks for sharing all that info on kratom - youve answered a few questions I've been wondering about. I also think you may be on to something regarding the intensity of kratom withdrawal for nonopiate addicts. I had a two year run with Oxy way back in the 90's, but nothing major. I didn't discover kratom until 2010, and stayed on it a significant amount of time getting through alcohol withdrawals. I was able to cold turkey kratom with no issue. However, I read posts by opiate addicts and their experience getting off of kratom sounds brutal. I thought there may be connection with prior opiate use. I've found after a 10 year Xanax run that getting off of other GABAderic drugs to be much worse than other people's experience. Interesting.

BTW - there's no need to use SWIM on Bluelight - you can reference yourself directly. It's an anonymous site and SWIM doesn't offer any protection anyways.

Again - thx for sharing - good info!
 
Great job Sunspot!
You're doing great.
I am currently using Kratom daily and I would like to stop.
However, it's what is keeping me from using harder drugs.

I am scared of Kratom withdrawals because I do feel pretty crappy when I wake up in the morning until I dose.
You are an inspiration to a lot of people here, I'm sure.

Hang in there, and stay strong!
Much love to you!
 
Thanks w0womg, yeah kratom is powerful, powerful stuff. Had been taking it for years and only stopped when i got on the opiates, i thought two things were overkill to take. Believe it or not i felt what i now know to be WD for a solid month after switching to tea. There were the ghosts of headaches and lack of motivation. Kratom always made me do stuff (at first).

It also helped me taper drinking so it's not all bad. Just wished i hadn't substituted the poids then. But i can say with authority that overall kratom didn't help me accomplish things one iota. It clouded my rational thinking, kept me from facing difficulties. It gave false comfort after i made mistakes. It's cost me years of my life. So if you want off psych yourself up for it, then go fot it! And post here to let us know how you do. Every gram less you take is a victory imo
 
Thanks for the advice!
I will be doing a slow taper, which I hopes will make it easier.
Much love to you!
 
Thanks and good luck to you! Be prepared not to sleep, at least that's been my most annoying symptom after stopping my kratom taper suddenly. That and the darn muscle aches and headaches. A hot tub or warn shower helps with all three.
 
Well this sucks. Gave in a little while ago and took 3g 2X kratom. But i promised myself not to get upset if i did so I'm not. Just couldn't take the restless pain anymore. Can't listen to music either because everyonr is sleeping. At least I'm way ahead of my taper (2g less every second day). And since I'm going backpacking in three weeks anyways i know there's something coming up where i CAN'T use and will be thoroughly distracted for a long time.

But wow addiction is a powerful thing. It doesn't look like I'll get a single wink of sleep again tonight, the sun is already rising:( can't believe this is still going on 18 days after my first day free of the poids, or actually 20 days after the last full dose .. This is so depressing
 
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