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Need advice tapering from kratom after opiate WD

I think the only time it makes withdrawal worse is during acute w/d, once that is past definitely helps. This is what I've read on other forams at least. I am glad I stopped caffeine a while back because now it has much more of an effect if needed. I used to drink several cups of coffee daily and barely seemed to get any boost from it but yesturday I took 80 mg caffeine to help get a few things done and I was wired most of the day. Also took a little theanine to smooth it out some.

Btw, how do I get notifications sent via email when there is a new post here? Is that not available since I'm a green lighter still? Or is it just the mobile version not ha ring that option or something? Thanks.
 
Regarding the biming, yeah, you all know I am a fan. Can wait to hop on my bike this morning and go on an adventure. Want to hit up the needle exchange and see about starting up a mindfulness class there again for the junkies down on skid row :)
 
toothpastedog said:
Regarding the biming, yeah, you all know I am a fan. Can wait to hop on my bike this morning and go on an adventure.
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Mountain biking, eh? I'm too scared for that mostly .. There are just too many nasty cacti hereabouts;) after a decade of doing outdoor stuff I've seen people run into teddy chollas a few times.. Ouch!!!!! Unless your into accupuncture, then it's perfect:), The dirt cross rider was the smartest though, had his friends pour water on his skin then they burned off the cactus. They still had to pull the spines but now he also has burns all over .. Smart folks.

I'm picking up some melatonin today, haven't so far as in prior years it only gave me six hours and was always counter productive for jet lag somehow. Now, six hours sounds just fine ..
 
SunSpot said:
Mountain biking, eh?
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I'm sure mountain biking is allot of fun, aside from the cacti stuff :-) , but I was actually referring to motorcycle trail riding, we call them dirtbikes. Either way I just enjoy exploring trails. There are some mountain bike trails near me that I have hiked before, looks like allot of fun, might have to give it a try sometime.

I hope the melatonin helps you out. Don't know if I can mention brands here but I prefer Natrol Fast Desolve 5mg melatonin to all the others I have tried, should be able to find it in local stores. They all work though so no biggie if you can't get that one, it just seems to last longer for me.
 
I love all types of biking, but my favorite is urban commute biking. There is something about having to navigate around all those cars that gives me an adrenaline rush like nothing else. Granted it is super dangerous, I aleady have been hit by one douchebag driver who wasn't paying attention. But I am really good at falling and always wear my helmet (sp?). Fucker gave me a couple hundred dollars on the spot because he was afraid I was gonna turn around and sue his dumb ass, but I am happy just with that money because I can use it to fix up and actually improve my bike. Alls well that ends well, I guess. . .
 
Yeah commute biking isn't so popular where i live, i mean there are some but not a lot. And my office is too far away probably, 8 miles by freeway, and in a really cheap part of town. The really nice areas of town are full of bikers but mine is like a step below, still nice but not ceo / director territory. Any where else there are no bikes, unless you goo all the way down the economic unfairness ladder to the people the top echelons profit from most. I wish this place was more like sf.. There are some real stuck up douches here .. One off my neighbors runs payday loan franchises and he's just e v i l. Oh well we're saving for a nice country farm, that's how i grew up until age 7 and i loved it
 
Ok to be accurate i grew up in a small village, my uncle has the farm. But i was there often, getting into trouble;)
 
;) not that bad, though once my cousin and i made it a race to see how much mischief we could do in one day. We got to 43! :) can't stop smiling now.. We were smart about our little felonies too, like drilling the pig pens wooden door post full of tiny holes and squeezing duck fat inside. They chewed through it in five days then roamed the village! Or releasing a bass in the koi pond, i swear there's a family picture somewhere of my uncle fishing in that tiny hole with a giant rod looking furious after he spent 2 fruitlesd hours with the net .. ;)

But we were more creative than destructive ( mostly), we even put in a solid hour gardening. Kind of. we collected weed seeds by the fields then spelled a huge swear word on the lawn. It was never legible but my uncle took3 years to get them out.. Ahh and the chickens, he only had about 10000, we had a little marching band practice in there. They had so many shell less eggs it clogged the equipment where no one could get to it, then went bad and stank to high heaven. Needless to say we (cousin and i) couldn't go there again for a solid year ... And then never together until much later. Our little escapade even got a small blurb in the village newsrag .. But i don't regret a thing!

On other news it's been a full day wo anything and it's not so bad at all. I'm a bit bored now (see above) but really the worst wd seems to be over. The hike really helped. I'm considering taking a bit of krat to get stuff done, there's only 45g left of the 2X and not re ordering is no prob for me. It's like with my fav trader joe chocolate: if it's in the house I'll eat it. But i can stop myself from buying more if I'm dropping a pound to stay at my ideal weight.

So with my trip coming up maybe i should just finish the bag. Stupid brain rationalizing again. Ok I'll go do something now to take my mind of it. Hope everyone is doing good!
 
But the real blame for this ended up pinned on one of my older cousins. He gave us a jar of sweet cherries pickled in vodka the day before (we were 10 at the time). We ate hardly any because we fed them to a piglet, but it was a great excuse!
 
Yes withdrawal has a lot to do with prior use and actually creating more opioid receptors during addiction /abuse. Ughhhh. Trust me I know. I could withdrawl from one Vicodin I swear. Kratom is some serious shit and people don't realize that. One of its alkaloids ( thankfully the one that's least abundant, hydroyxymitragynine i ThINK is17 times stronger then morphine? Or some ungodly number.
 
It's powerful stuff and I just hope people don't see it as a cure all or a simple way out of opiate addiction it's just another opiate..it's rather novel in its legality and "all natural -ness" as an actual PLANT. but I know that a lot of treatment centers around here now have it in their U-tox panels now. That and neurontin in the last year or so.
 
Greymare how right you are. I'm 23 days clean fron oral opium and the withdrawals / PAWS is still a bi***. Kratom can make that almost go away; it even goes a bit further sometimes but I'm disgusted with me using so won't go into that. I caved in an hour ago and took 4g 2X extract leaf and the sniffles have stopped, legs feel normal, impending diahhrea stopped in its track etc.

But i still think it's less powerful than opiates by a wide margin. But addictive non the less, more in a coffee sort of way (it stimulates too). Btw what is a u tox panel?
 
Urine screen. They are looking for it now at sober housing units and outpatient treatments in my area in New England. I just did a bunch of internships and it's becoming more widely used and known in clinical /treatment arena
I do agree with you, but the strains all have varying stenghts ( the Reds being highest in those alkaloids) and I was pretty shocked at how powerful it is. I hear lots of people reffering to it as their "last step" off the opiate roller coaster
I don't want to get into the "what withdrawl is worse" battle and I am a long term opiate user in recovery, but I had horrible horrible withdrawals from it ( which is more to do with physiology then the actual substance) it was a huge wake up call for me -and if you follow it in the media more and more states are trying to criminalize it
. I am really confused about wether it's a good or bad development. I truly believe that treatment/sobriety and those ideas are not black and white and Im in favor of ANY therapy that improves quality of life, Wether it be NA or suboxone or cold turkey or whatever, but I don't know if this kratom fad will end up doing more harm then good? I guess we shall see
 
Oh no!! I certainly don't think criminalizing will do ANYTHING positive!! I'm with you there.i just meant Kratoms popularity in general.
it's not been around long enough for any real feedback on its potential. That's all.
 
I am going through hep c treatment. I had about six months clean from opiates before I got some kratom. It is uplifting, but needs to be respected just as every other drug does. If you do not exceed a few times a week, and only eat enough to feel better it is extremely helpful.

For me, it takes away the lethargy, body/joint aches, malaise, and nausea associated with taking anti-virals. It is a great tool, and prohibiting it is pointless.

I would love to see a detox protocol calling for a rapid taper from 10g down to nothing in seven days for opiate addicts. It is just way safer to the body than a hard withdrawal, or a methadone or suboxone withdrawal.

This leaf is a godsend for me. I still have to take part in my life and I cannot lay around in bed all day feeling sorry for myself and this plant gives me the energy and hope I need to recognize that I have at least 10 more weeks of treatment and I can do it!
 
Manbchef, i feel for ya! Are they giving you Solvaldi or the interferons? Probably the latter if you're tired from it. I say hang in there but watch your krat usage like a hawk. At least kratom barely seems to have dose creep where your tolerance builds to it.

I take an indo strain btw and yes, there are real cravings for it. I don't have any for the poids, just like i don't miss alc. The wife even had some micgelob last night and left a half drunk bottle in my home office. Maybe she doesn't want me sober?? Not that it matters. But kratom, aahh the need for that is strong .. Which sucks. I think part of the head aches i have are due to it, didn't have them the first 2 weeks of detox.

That's why I'm trying to trick my body with the taper. I also thought about baking half the leaf at 350f to kill the actives, then mix it back in. Just as long as i don't associate that darn powder with instant pain relief.

In other news melatonin was both amazing, and not. 2mg (im sensitive ..) made me genuinely tired, and i fell asleep at midnight w/o anything else. But at 4 it felt like i had had a full nights sleep and woke. It's always been that way with me and mela. Anyone know of an XR version of the stuff??
 
Kratom is a partial agonist and if used properly is a great tool to getting off opiates. Like many plants and medications there is a potential for addiction and therefore some will abuse it but making it illegal will not solve this problem. Not to get on another topic altogether but the idea that making new laws will help people get clean or stop abuse is rediculous. Like many laws it looks good on paper but doesn't actually do what it's set out to do and in fact only makes it worse for those already addicted/dependent on the substance. I suspect the day will come when our big government decides to ban kratom and it will most likely lead many who currently use it to purchase pain meds or H illegally making them criminals just for trying to prevent withdrawal sickness. I am all for educating people of the side effects and potential addictiveness of a substance, even putting warning labels on the package if that is desired but making these substances illegal is not the answer. Don't get me wrong, I believe the best thing is for people to stay away from addictive substances but there are times when it is necessary. Like manboychef posted above me, he has a need to take kratom and seems to do so responsibly since he understands the possibility for addiction. Just because something is addictive doesn't mean it should be banned or made illegal.

Sorry for the long post, I just gets on my nerves when people think they know better than everyone else and tries to control others' lives with rediculous new laws. I'll stop now. :-)
 
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