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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

I've finally done it, only took 2 years to quit kratom and see through the w/ds. :\ Tbh this quit was more by accident than design, i had been on an intermittent GBL binge for a couple of weeks, and using far less kratom than normal as GBL makes my stomach very queazy and i cant eat anything except dry Shredded Wheat! Anyway by the end of the 2 weeks i realised that i must have gone at least 3 possibly 4 days with no kratom at the end of the binge, and GBL had completely overpowered most of the kratom w/ds.

Upon realising that i had been gifted a head start and was already probably at least half way there it made total sense to continue the kratom abstinenece. I got some excellent advice from Englandz, Thanks again Fella. The main new discovery this time round was Clonidine. What a miracle drug that is! No cold sweats, feverishness, temperature fluctuations etc, but man does it tire you out, i was very sleep deprived after my GBL binge and for the first 2 days using clonidine i slept about 20 hours a day!!

I do wonder though whether its truly possible to heal without suffering. I mean when i stop the clonidine and the lopes and the vitamin C Flu drinks im gonna get bitten in the ass sooner or later? Cant get away with 2 years of 20-40g kratom per day as lightly as that? Amanatadine made it sound like it would feel like the end of the world after long term use.

Atm my energy is very low, i have to push myself to do anything. I expect that will recover if i make some effort of my own to restore my physical endurance and resilience through exercise.
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
I've finally done it, only took 2 years to quit kratom and see through the w/ds. Tbh this quit was more by accident than design, i had been on an intermittent GBL binge for a couple of weeks, and using far less kratom than normal as GBL makes my stomach very queazy and i cant eat anything except dry Shredded Wheat! Anyway by the end of the 2 weeks i realised that i must have gone at least 3 possibly 4 days with no kratom at the end of the binge, and GBL had completely overpowered most of the kratom w/ds.

Upon realising that i had been gifted a head start and was already probably at least half way there it made total sense to continue the kratom abstinenece. I got some excellent advice from Englandz, Thanks again Fella. The main new discovery this time round was Clonidine. What a miracle drug that is! No cold sweats, feverishness, temperature fluctuations etc, but man does it tire you out, i was very sleep deprived after my GBL binge and for the first 2 days using clonidine i slept about 20 hours a day!!

I do wonder though whether its truly possible to heal without suffering. I mean when i stop the clonidine and the lopes and the vitamin C Flu drinks im gonna get bitten in the ass sooner or later? Cant get away with 2 years of 20-40g kratom per day as lightly as that? Amanatadine made it sound like it would feel like the end of the world after long term use.

Atm my energy is very low, i have to push myself to do anything. I expect that will recover if i make some effort of my own to restore my physical endurance and resilience through exercise.
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That's great news bro!! I'm made up for you. Yeah I said I thought the clonidine would help but did warn you about the tiredness (especially when combined with lyrica and benzos). This tiredness does get slightly better as time passes but it's just a side effect of the med unfortunately..

I don't know if it's possible to come off without any suffering at all but (and it's a big but) it IS possible to reduce suffering considerably. This reduction in the amount you suffer is significant though since it can make the difference between successfully sticking it out and throwing in the towel alltogether. A big mistake a lot of people make is forgetting to taper off the ancillary comfort meds. It doesn't have to be a several month long protracted taper but you shouldn't just still them dead....

Any problems just PM me or sent me a text....you've got my number..

Again I'm really pleased for you mate....well done!!!! :)

Edit...regarding the tiredness...make sure you're eating properly as not doing so makes the lethargy much worse......just stay away from stims as they make the adrenalin related side-effects far, far worse..almost unbearably so..
 
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Thanks again. I will remember that about the comfort meds. The tiredness was actuallly a plus for the first couple of days imo, allowing me to sleep right through the worst of everything.

What kind of adrenalin related side effects?

Im so tired ive just swallowed 2 Modafiendz, i bet they are so weak i wont even feel them, i dont even feel the medicinal modafinil which is dosed far higher. Tbh i have been taking stims, and realised that combining stims, benzos, and clonidine at bedtime sounded very dodgy indeed. I let the benzos normalise my heart rate before taking the clonidine. Still not reccomended im sure. Ive also been a stim fiend for ages, so stopping that at the same time as kratom is gonna virtually immobilise me. Kratom also acts on the adrenal system, especially the stimmy strains, unlike normal opiates i think, so i do expect to be very tired until my adrenal system starts to compensate for the lack of kratom. :o

I havent had clonidine today, though i can stilll feel it from last night. I may try and hold off until bedtime before re-dosing Clonidine.
 
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The hot/cold flashes, crippling anxiety and that god awful knawing feeling in the pit of your stomach where you just want to crawl out of your own skin are the adrenaline related WD effects.

When taking opiates your brain blocks the effects of adrenalin somewhat so your body produces more to compensate and attempt to reach homeostasis. When you stop the opiates your brain now becomes hypersensitive to adrenaline and your body is still producing an excess of it. This overproduction of adrenaline and the brains increased sensitivity to it are what cause these adrenal related effects..

For me personally they are by far the worst WD symptom. I find the others like GI distress, insomnia etc. Can easily be treated and are transient. The adrenal WD symptoms however are with you 24/7 and are a lot harder to treat...unlucky for me that methadone withdrawal while easier on the GI withdrawal symptoms are VERY heavily weighted towards the adrenal related WD symptoms.....

Regarding the clonidine. Are you taking it 3 times a day as directed or taking it only once or twice a day? If you take it 3 times a day you won't need as much in one go and so it maybe won't leave you as tired....

It is a very underrated conform med (at least in the UK anyway). Combined with lyrica, a benzo and some lope it will eliminate a huge chunk of anything but the very worst of opiate WDs (although obviously the lope has to be tapered off since it is an opiate)
 
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Right, i hope i dont get that, i'll have to reach for the benzos if i do, how over medicated can one person get?

Kratom is different to normal opiates, in as much as certain strains are very stimmy indeed acting directly on the adrenal system. I dunno if ive burnt my adrenal system out. It probably just needs time to re-adjust.

Yeah at first i was taking a quarter of the 100mcg pill 3-4 times a day, and 3/4 now a whole one at night, as that enables me to sleep right through without waking up. I guess i should be careful not to start relying on that as a sleep aid.
 
You not geting any hot flashes or bursts of that horrible anxiety that most suffer during WDs? The best way to describe it is that horrible over wired feeling you get from taking too much caffine.

Also are you sure they are 100mcg pills? The ones in got scripted were only 25mcg and I had to take 4 pills (100mcg) 3 time a day....this is the maximum you we meant to take in a day. Not sure if I mentioned it before but careful of a drop in BP when you stand up. This happened to me and i collapsed....ended up in hospital (well casualty anyway)...

I've tidied up all the typos in my previous post as I did it in a hurry on my phone '
 
No, nothing like that. Possibly the benzos are keeping that at bay. They definitely say 100mcg on them, so 300 mcg is the dayly limit? Im well short of that. Finding it strong enough at much lower doses.

You did warn me about the BP thing when standing, and im being careful of that. Thanks.
 
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Yeah that's right 300mcg limit. First time I took it I needed a lot less too. I worked my way up to 3 x 100. I forget you're were foreign so 100mcg sounds ok.

Sounds like you're doing great mate......how long do kratom WDs normally last?
 
im in the UK. They can be very variable from a week to a month, depending on length and size of habit, and there can be severe PAWS too, so far ive had none of that. I think im over the worst, just need to rebuild my energy reserves now.

Thanks again for your advice and support.%)
 
mydrugbuddy said:
im in the UK. They can be very variable from a week to a month, depending on length and size of habit, and there can be severe PAWS too, so far ive had none of that. I think im over the worst, just need to rebuild my energy reserves now.

Thanks again for your advice and support.%)
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Sorry mate that was a stupid autocorrect typo. It should have said I forgot THEY'RE foreign...meaning the pills were from abroad. I know you're from the UK.....

Damn phone autocorrect!! :)
 
For me after 18 months of solid MST morphine use at 300mg a day plus fentanyl 10mcg/hour, DHC and tramadol on top I just locked myself a way and went cold turkey. Was tough but figured it was gonna be all or nothing. I know people who have been cutting down or quitting for literally years!
 
I did something similar. Stopped 180mg methadone, 20mg valium and 600mg pregabalin a day CT. Unfortunately the WDs went on for the best part of 7 months so locking my self away wasnt really feasable. I did have a week off sick and 2 weeks annual leave during the really accute part and spent most of that time locked away in my bedroom .....just as well though as i wasnt well enough to leave the house anyway. Unfortunately for the next 6 months I just had to suck it up and to work as I had bills to pay...
 
englandgz74 said:
I did something similar. Stopped 180mg methadone, 20mg valium and 600mg pregabalin a day CT. Unfortunately the WDs went on for the best part of 7 months so locking my self away wasnt really feasable. I did have a week off sick and 2 weeks annual leave during the really accute part and spent most of that time locked away in my bedroom .....just as well though as i wasnt well enough to leave the house anyway. Unfortunately for the next 6 months I just had to suck it up and to work as I had bills to pay...
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I said it before,I just don't know how you did it,but props to you.I'm so stuck on 20mg.Anything lower and I'm mentally useless.Physically ,I am comfortable but I feel like a fucking alien.Truth is the older you get,the harder the kick.I wish you continued success.
 
MMT said:
I said it before,I just don't know how you did it,but props to you.I'm so stuck on 20mg.Anything lower and I'm mentally useless.Physically ,I am comfortable but I feel like a fucking alien.Truth is the older you get,the harder the kick.I wish you continued success.
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Thanks man!

But what I did was totally the wrong way. I should have tapered. Your right about it getting harder with age. I'm 41 now and Its definitely harder when you get older.

If I was you I would increase back to a dose you are comfortable on the stabilise for a few weeks them reduce again but slower and in smaller increments than before....

If you try to reduce again right now you will suffer too much man. What I described above is your best plan I think...

Wish you all the best though mate. Take care..
 
englandgz74 said:
Thanks man!

But what I did was totally the wrong way. I should have tapered. Your right about it getting harder with age. I'm 41 now and Its definitely harder when you get older.

If I was you I would increase back to a dose you are comfortable on the stabilise for a few weeks them reduce again but slower and in smaller increments than before....

If you try to reduce again right now you will suffer too much man. What I described above is your best plan I think...

Wish you all the best though mate. Take care..
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Thanks for the advice but truth be told I'm at least 10+ years older than you and you come from a PM perspective whereas my use started as and always was a recreational/self-medication use of opiates that I needed to cope with serious physical(as opposed to sexual) child abuse.I lost a brother to heroin and my sister continues to suffer for the same reason.I know most will call this a cop out reason to use and if you havn't been there it's hard to empathize with someone like me.Anyways,I did a very slow taper and actually got down to 10mg.,again physically comfortable but mentally agonizing,always feeling that something within me was missing.And believe me,I've tried every anti-depressant known to man.Some didn't work at all and some would help for a year or so but I always found myself back to square one.I am now at the point where I wonder if it's really worth it to stop if it means that my "golden years" will be spent in a constant mental anguish knowing that relief is but a gatekeeper's prescription away.There's got to be a more humane way of treating people my age other than standing in a cattle run everyday with purple-haired kids half my sons age just so I can feel normal.It won't change in my lifetime but I hope that future generations will look back and wonder why we(speaking for America)treated truly sick people in this fashion.God forgive TPTB.I wish you continued success.
 
MMT said:
Thanks for the advice but truth be told I'm at least 10+ years older than you and you come from a PM perspective whereas my use started as and always was a recreational/self-medication use of opiates that I needed to cope with serious physical(as opposed to sexual) child abuse.I lost a brother to heroin and my sister continues to suffer for the same reason.I know most will call this a cop out reason to use and if you havn't been there it's hard to empathize with someone like me.Anyways,I did a very slow taper and actually got down to 10mg.,again physically comfortable but mentally agonizing,always feeling that something within me was missing.And believe me,I've tried every anti-depressant known to man.Some didn't work at all and some would help for a year or so but I always found myself back to square one.I am now at the point where I wonder if it's really worth it to stop if it means that my "golden years" will be spent in a constant mental anguish knowing that relief is but a gatekeeper's prescription away.There's got to be a more humane way of treating people my age other than standing in a cattle run everyday with purple-haired kids half my sons age just so I can feel normal.It won't change in my lifetime but I hope that future generations will look back and wonder why we(speaking for America)treated truly sick people in this fashion.God forgive TPTB.I wish you continued success.
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Mate that's an awful story. I'm so sorry

I know what you mean about the "something missing" feeling cos I feel that too. I had a lot of trauma as a kid as well which I don't talk about on here but I can definitely empathise (we spell empathise with an "s" in England lol!!).

When you put it like that i dont think there's anything wrong with you staying on. I had work reasons to come off and my work is my life but when you describe your situation maybe finding a dose that makes you happt and just staying with that?..

Doctors don't like to admit it but sometimes opiates are the only antidepressant that makes some people be able to cope with life... Nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone's different. You just have to weigh up the pros and cons..

Again sorry you had to go through that...

PM me If you ever need to talk...

Take it easy mate <3
 
Hello, worried? Oh shucks! Yeah, quite a lot has been happening, I was taking too much H for awhile there, had a few detoxes, then I left my job and started up a new business with my girlfriend and now also my business partner - all very exciting and daunting at the same time.

I was also in the South of Spain for a week in March and went CT over there which was horrific, I then stupidly got back on it when I returned. However, this new business venture and financial reasons has kind of forced me to seriously stop what I'm doing.

So, I bought loads of Sevredol, 60mg MSTs and prgabalin and spent a week consuming those (morphine was first to go and then the preggies) leaving H behind. Morphine obviously eradicated any WDs, but just made me feel normal or fall asleep in some instances, no high at all really.

The thing is, I don't want to stop taking it, I want to causally use from time to time - I'm also very aware of how difficult this is, if at all possible..

Anyway, to cut a long story short I'm not dead. Hurrah! How is everyone else?
 
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