ponch
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Who let Gerry Adams in?
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Scottish Independence v. Further devolution, or just convoluted lies?
- Thread starter gannetsarewe
- Start date
ColtDan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 24,876
Indeed
gannetsarewe
Bluelighter
Make whatever assumptions you like about this moment in time, what little is known about Britain and Ireland during the Roman occupation is from Roman sources and the annalists writing 500 years+ afterwards, but you knew that already the same as you know everything else, but what has Lentils in yogurt sauce to do with it?, but that would be your Indian sub continent ancestry, I mean ye would hardly let the Brits back in, would ye?
The price of the No vote winning has hardened up to 1.2 from 1.27 yesterday making it 83% probable that Scotland remains a colony.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Is there any need? I pointed out the fact that I'm aware of the history you spoke of, perhaps in a slightly shirty fashion, but your original post was pretty condescending. I've never professed to know 'everything', despite what you may infer from some of my posts.
Dal / daal? That actually made me chuckle. Though my Indian subcontinent ancestry is news to me.
No suspect about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN7nvWvPWro
8 billion barrels. 50 year life expected. Biggest oil field in Europe but these Westminster cunts want to keep this quiet. Fuckem.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/140aa88c-3d16-11e4-a2ab-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DgcEmtkX
Scotland would be fucking loaded, even just off the tax revenure cos that fucking retard Thatcher sold our oil and gas fields to oild companies instead of nationalising it. Fucking moron of the highest order. The UK could of had an oil fund like Norway if the shitty Tory government had though a little about the future instead of just plowing cash into London.
gannetsarewe
Bluelighter
The similar cultural thing holds no water for me, look at the American Revolution which is better example than Ireland, where a mostly identical people rebelled against the Mother Country because they felt that polity no longer represented their interests, but before I go any further, I went to check a fact I see the Grauniad is there before me.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/18/scotlands-referendum-american-revolution
I think the not sures and recently convinced will bottle it as in better the divil you know, so I have just backed 45.01 to 45 % for the yes vote.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
^I'd read (from someone not particularly reliable) that some Soros figure (or soros, it was unclear) has underwritten the cost of the odds to favour no in some bookie - another type of push polling... (could be bollocks though - we'll see i suppose).
Come on scotland!
Come on scotland!
mattnotrik
Bluelighter
The No vote has been clear favourite for a while at odds 2/7 was being offered and 4/1 for the Yes, so they really do not fancy it at all.
What im on.
NSFW:
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
Better luck next time, Scotland .....
In the meantime, be sure to demand everything London promised you in return for bending over and taking it, plus a bit more.
In the meantime, be sure to demand everything London promised you in return for bending over and taking it, plus a bit more.
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, fear of the unknown was basically what the NO campaign were pandering to. And even then, that only works on people who think they have anything to lose.
Still, 45-55 represents a bloody nose for London, however you look at it; and it shows just how annoyed people are with the present system. It's not at all unfeasible that a bit of drama somewhere beyond the influence of the Government propaganda machine might have swung a YES victory.
Let's hope the Weasels of Westminster deliver on the bribes they promised. All of Scotland will be watching -- especially those who switched to NO on tye basis of promised concessions -- and so will many others sick of being pushed around by, and playing a poor second fiddle to, London.
Still, 45-55 represents a bloody nose for London, however you look at it; and it shows just how annoyed people are with the present system. It's not at all unfeasible that a bit of drama somewhere beyond the influence of the Government propaganda machine might have swung a YES victory.
Let's hope the Weasels of Westminster deliver on the bribes they promised. All of Scotland will be watching -- especially those who switched to NO on tye basis of promised concessions -- and so will many others sick of being pushed around by, and playing a poor second fiddle to, London.
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
I'm just glad I don't have to vote. That would have been a lot of pressure as I don't understand the true extent of it n lets face it we're dealing with people's lives here. It's bound to affect people whatever happens , both on a national n individual basis.
Evey
Evey
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Maybe so (at least for sections of the 'no' campaign), but to a certain extent factions within the yes campaign quite cynically pandered to the more jingoistic and militant strains of nationalism. To try and characterise this as a battle between the noble, long-suffering inhabitants of Scotland, hankering for freedom from the Sassenach yoke, and the Big Bad Wolf of Westminster, with its propaganda machine, is to insult and patronise the 55% of Scottish people who voted no.
I hope the government does deliver on its promises, though I'm as doubtful as anybody else. I just firmly believe that a strong contingent of 'yes' voters were motivated more by nationalistic sentiment than they were by politics. Which is fair enough, but actual political dissent it most certainly ain't.
Chatative
Bluelight Crew
I'd also like to add that although the No campaign may have pandered to the unknowns, they were only there because of the incompetence of the Yes campaign. That doesn't instil confidence that these issues would be satisfactorily settled had we become independent. It wasn't unknowns as much as lack of trust for me...
I personally would have at least considered a Yes vote had they dealt with the logistics more than the jingoistic side of things in their 'propaganda'. I just found it hard to take them seriously.
And for obvious reasons, the poll is closed. It seems we have somewhat of a "I am Spartacus" situation with regards to Spade. :D
I personally would have at least considered a Yes vote had they dealt with the logistics more than the jingoistic side of things in their 'propaganda'. I just found it hard to take them seriously.
And for obvious reasons, the poll is closed. It seems we have somewhat of a "I am Spartacus" situation with regards to Spade. :D
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
The speculation points the finger at both sides, though. The Dundee fire alarm farce was pretty fishy, as was the attempt to use a picture from before the votes were counted to imply that yes votes were being counted as no. Incidentally, Dundee voted yes.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised at vote-rigging from either side.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised at vote-rigging from either side.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
Damn Shame. Sorry for scotland and the rest of us - missed a very rare chance to introduce some change into a baroque establishment which we've come to accept is what a democracy should look like, for lack of a better example. The elite better be convincing with the baubles they throw or they may find out how many of those nos really voted for the union, rather than taking the offered powers at face value. I hope that the little people who campaigned (on any side) keep it going and make some inroads into the next election.
I can believe the vote was genuine (and respect anyone's democratic views), but i think it was unfair when considering the massive media bias (one paper against a hundred) and the combined weight of so many centres of power (turns out even that 'off-the-cuff' remark from queenie was stage managed (who'd have thunk it)) - not to suggest that no voters are any more susceptible to media propaganda than anyone else, but we know from the price of advertising/marketing/PR: that shit works in an appreciable percentage. It seems to have been totally forgotten, but there were supposed to be election 'purdah' laws in effect meaning you can't introduce new policies in the media a couple of weeks before the election (after postal votes start) - the british state facilitated by its media arm completely ignored this with their back of a fag packet 'vows' and week-long doom tirade.
Can't resist a conspiracy though (especially a self-justifying one): There's this video showing some dodgy shenanigans (the one with the piles of yes votes on a no table has already been debunked above, but the other two are still fishy). I don't think it feasible to directly rig it in the counts though as they're pretty tightly observed by both sides and the numbers make it difficult. The postal votes are another question though - they were mixed in with the other votes before the count - easier to switch piles of them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg&app=desktop
I'll accept the result - i still think it was a big step forward just being able to bring social democratic and even socialist ideas into the debate without being (completely) shouted down by neoliberalist news management like they have been since the 80s. This gives me hope that the neoliberal control of the political debate is starting to unravel a bit (optimist at heart)
I can believe the vote was genuine (and respect anyone's democratic views), but i think it was unfair when considering the massive media bias (one paper against a hundred) and the combined weight of so many centres of power (turns out even that 'off-the-cuff' remark from queenie was stage managed (who'd have thunk it)) - not to suggest that no voters are any more susceptible to media propaganda than anyone else, but we know from the price of advertising/marketing/PR: that shit works in an appreciable percentage. It seems to have been totally forgotten, but there were supposed to be election 'purdah' laws in effect meaning you can't introduce new policies in the media a couple of weeks before the election (after postal votes start) - the british state facilitated by its media arm completely ignored this with their back of a fag packet 'vows' and week-long doom tirade.
Can't resist a conspiracy though (especially a self-justifying one): There's this video showing some dodgy shenanigans (the one with the piles of yes votes on a no table has already been debunked above, but the other two are still fishy). I don't think it feasible to directly rig it in the counts though as they're pretty tightly observed by both sides and the numbers make it difficult. The postal votes are another question though - they were mixed in with the other votes before the count - easier to switch piles of them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg&app=desktop
I'll accept the result - i still think it was a big step forward just being able to bring social democratic and even socialist ideas into the debate without being (completely) shouted down by neoliberalist news management like they have been since the 80s. This gives me hope that the neoliberal control of the political debate is starting to unravel a bit (optimist at heart)
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