Do all the people that talk about bad effects on this forum come from abuse?

[JWills20]

Uhg one of these threads again. I'm gonna keep it short as i've tired my self out with these threads.
MDMA is 'safe' in the sense that if you get pure stuff you won't die unless you were a fool and shoved a lot of powder in your mouth.
How ever where MDMA is Not safe is the long term problems on your mind / brain. Every dose of MDMA you take causes a lasting reorganization of your serotonin axons. It is recommended to NOT take MDMA more than 3-4 times because of how powerful / damaging it is to your brain.

Do you ever hear read, do not take heroin more than 3-4 times a year. No, same with every other drug. MDMA is pretty much the only one that has all these rules with it. The only good part of MDMA is it isn't really addicting. yes you crave the experience again, but you won't be fiending for a hit.
/thread

With all due respect, this is a strong and neuroscientific claim. Have you got anything peer-reviewed to actually back up this statement?

 

[F1n1shed]

With all due respect, this is a strong and neuroscientific claim. Have you got anything peer-reviewed to actually back up this statement?

I do not feel like looking up sources, as i have posted them before. But if you do a little research on credible sites you can find them your self.
Besides actual scientific studies, i have been on this forum for years and see what MDMA can do even with responsible users. Most credible reports will always start with saying MDMA is a serotonin neuro toxin. Meaning every time you take it, you are doing damage to your serotonin neurons in one form or another and serotonin is not as resilient as dopamine which is what most other drugs work on.

 

[laugh]

It is quite safe when used in a certain way.

agree

It can also be very dangerous when not used a certain way.

like water?

Very few people know about these "rules".

i have noticed that majority of people who take mdma are not the kind of people to conform to rules, mdma being illegal and all.

Therefore... MDMA, in its given context, is not THAT safe.

perhaps if it was legalised and purchased from chemists rather than how it is acquired currently might help?

People have gotten seriously fucked up. This is a clear example of you downplaying the very real, very intense experiences of people who have found a place to discuss their life-changing problems.

mate that is life. water kills. are you on another forum spruiking the dangers of dilutional hyponatremia?

Just to make myself clear... I am not hating on your favourite drug ever. don't worry! I love it so much, that I fucked myself up on it. I believe it is something MOST people should try once (YOLO indeed), if they have some knowledge about HR and are aware of both the risks and rewards going into it.

take a step back and have a look around, you arent the only one.

Just think it's dangerous to call MDMA "Safe", without following that statement up with a "but" at the very least.

agree but to be honest that is pretty obvious.

NSFW:

Meaning every time you take it, you are doing damage to your serotonin neurons in one form or another and serotonin is not as resilient as dopamine which is what most other drugs work on.

everyday you die a little mate. we all die one day. that is just the nature of life.

 

[Cadamec]

Paranoia about what you are going to take is a good thing. It is cool there are test kits available so you can test and plan your fun. Too many garage labs these days and misinformation about what stuff is from friends of friends.

My first year of college I was an idiot, I would take pills handed to me and THEN ask what it was.

I volunteer at the ER and a major metropolitan city in The US and every weekend, there iare always a handful of kids who wish they could come down or don't feel right anymore. It's very sad.

 

[laugh]

I volunteer at the ER and a major metropolitan city in The US and every weekend, there iare always a handful of kids who wish they could come down or don't feel right anymore. It's very sad.

indeed it is sad. how many people come into ER due to alcohol related issues in comparison? and alcohol is legal

 

[Anon610]

Nope. I use to abuse the shit out of it. Now I use it maybe once every two months, if that. And the effects are still profound. MDMA by itself is relatively safe if you're a healthy person. First, some people abuse something that they THINK is MDMA. And its like MDA or some RC. Whatever. Secondly, a single use of MDMA and a good talk with a friend is very beneficial. Its very medicinal and like I said with the right dose and usage relatively safe. At least from my research, personal experience and judgment.

You'll see me talk pretty highly of MDMA around here despite the fact I use to do it a lot. Most people though will blame the MDMA or 'MDMA' on whatever may have happened during their abusive use. But fact is MDMA didn't make you like that, or make you who you are. Your lack of personal responsibility did. So live up to it and get sober. Use MDMA safe and responsibly. Don't use it more than once in a week for god's sake. Hell don't even use it more than once in a month.

 

[Rebubula]

Uhg one of these threads again. I'm gonna keep it short as i've tired my self out with these threads.
MDMA is 'safe' in the sense that if you get pure stuff you won't die unless you were a fool and shoved a lot of powder in your mouth.
How ever where MDMA is Not safe is the long term problems on your mind / brain. Every dose of MDMA you take causes a lasting reorganization of your serotonin axons. It is recommended to NOT take MDMA more than 3-4 times because of how powerful / damaging it is to your brain.

Do you ever hear read, do not take heroin more than 3-4 times a year. No, same with every other drug. MDMA is pretty much the only one that has all these rules with it. The only good part of MDMA is it isn't really addicting. yes you crave the experience again, but you won't be fiending for a hit.
/thread

Perfectly said. Exactly. I think this is the reason so many people use it too much (too much being every other week or so) and think they are not doing any harm.....then they wonder why they are so sad and grouchy and cant get anything done and suffering oddball anxiety attacks.

 

[rickolasnice]

With all due respect, this is a strong and neuroscientific claim. Have you got anything peer-reviewed to actually back up this statement?

Although recent studies suggest 5-ht axons returned to NEAR normal levels.. they never returned to 100% pre-MDMA levels.. Who knows what kind of change this can have when you bring the full networks of the brain into consideration.

 

[JWills20]

I do not feel like looking up sources, as i have posted them before. But if you do a little research on credible sites you can find them your self.
Besides actual scientific studies, i have been on this forum for years and see what MDMA can do even with responsible users. Most credible reports will always start with saying MDMA is a serotonin neuro toxin. Meaning every time you take it, you are doing damage to your serotonin neurons in one form or another and serotonin is not as resilient as dopamine which is what most other drugs work on.

Fair enough on the sources, they are a pain in the ass to find. But I entirely disagree with 'most reports will always start with saying MDMA is a serotonin neurotoxin.' This quite simply is not true. Within all of my reading, neurotoxic doses tend to be 5mg/kg or even higher. Sure, 1.5mg/kg might cause an increase in oxidative free radicals, but, the difference is that we are able to naturally buffer them thus causing minimal damage. Add a potent anti-oxidant and you could probably neutralise the majority of free radicals before they destruct cells, even at higher doses. Exercise causes a slight increase in oxidative free radicals circulating the periphery, but is exercise a dangerous periphotoxin (if that is even a word... lol)? Sometimes I think this forum loses sight of the reality of the dangers.

Although recent studies suggest 5-ht axons returned to NEAR normal levels.. they never returned to 100% pre-MDMA levels.. Who knows what kind of change this can have when you bring the full networks of the brain into consideration.

Feel free to link the journal if you can be bothered. Just a few thoughts, if the test is a chronic examination (long-term) then there is always the possibility that age-related declines in brain function mask the absolute effects of MDMA. Further, if 5-HT axons returned near to normal levels, that sounds pretty safe to me. I'd accept a 1% decline, or whatever they reported, for countless hours of enjoyment.

 

[StrutterGear]

This little Q&A generally shows the majority % of these horror story threads and how they came about.

1. Did you test your gear?
99% of the time no test was ever made

2. If the test showed bunk did you still consume it just because you paid for it?
99% of the time yes.

3. Did you follow the dosage guidelines?
99% of the time no.

4. Did you work yourself into a mass hysteria by diagnosing yourself on the internet?
99% of the time yes.

A combination of the above criteria generally tells the story that the individual consumed in excess of 1 gram of untested product (which could of been anything) often for their first experience ever. They felt like shit, naturally, and were unfamiliar with the side effects to begin with, so diagnosed themselves on the internet. They have a history of anxiety problems, and this has resurfaced. They are convinced they are dying.


Sound familiar?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen even when people follow the guidelines, but often they don't.

 

[futura2012]

Fair enough on the sources, they are a pain in the ass to find. But I entirely disagree with 'most reports will always start with saying MDMA is a serotonin neurotoxin.' This quite simply is not true. Within all of my reading, neurotoxic doses tend to be 5mg/kg or even higher. Sure, 1.5mg/kg might cause an increase in oxidative free radicals, but, the difference is that we are able to naturally buffer them thus causing minimal damage. Add a potent anti-oxidant and you could probably neutralise the majority of free radicals before they destruct cells, even at higher doses. Exercise causes a slight increase in oxidative free radicals circulating the periphery, but is exercise a dangerous periphotoxin (if that is even a word... lol)? Sometimes I think this forum loses sight of the reality of the dangers.

Here is a source. There are many and they dont claim high dose either some claim damage can be caused after the very first dose. When im in a more researchey mood ill dig out some more.

http://www.addictionjournal.org/press-releases/the-debate-over-ecstasy-continues

Feel free to link the journal if you can be bothered. Just a few thoughts, if the test is a chronic examination (long-term) then there is always the possibility that age-related declines in brain function mask the absolute effects of MDMA. Further, if 5-HT axons returned near to normal levels, that sounds pretty safe to me. I'd accept a 1% decline, or whatever they reported, for countless hours of enjoyment.

Sure its a trade off and yeah I am fully aware of the total euphoria and enjoyment MDMA can bring but unfortunately I am also only too aware of the negatives as well. Following the rules does seem to elleviate a lot of the potential issues but the dangers are still there lurking in the background.

Not sure about 1% decline however I think its a very difficult thing to quantify in this way. The facts are there is some kind of decline and in many cases it is subtle and seems to be accumalitive so who wants to take these risks only the user can decide.

The memory loss I am experiencing is well above and beyond the type of memory loss someone whould expect at the age of 39 for sure. Its pretty chronic.

 

[rickolasnice]

Did you test your gear?

You don't know that those 99% were actually MDMA.. It's a popular ED way of thinking..

If it proved bunk did you still take it?

Haven't seen many of those threads but i'm pretty sure Drug ID speculation is not allowed

Did you follow the guideline dosing?

You could say the same about any drug and their horror stories. (Edit.. i wrote this thinking i was in another, similar thread on another subforum )

Did you work into mass hysteria by diagnosing yourself on the internet?

Thanks to the attitude of ED as of current.. probably.. yeah.. Thanks ED

But yeah.. most horror stories come from abuse..

There are a lot of threads made by people suffering from post MDMA use.. but these seem to be within the next week of their last use.. so chances are they pretty much fully recovered within the next few days of post.

 

[StrutterGear]

Did you test your gear?

You don't know that those 99% were actually MDMA.. It's a popular ED way of thinking..

If it proved bunk did you still take it?

Haven't seen many of those threads but i'm pretty sure Drug ID speculation is not allowed

Did you follow the guideline dosing?

You could say the same about any drug and their horror stories. (Edit.. i wrote this thinking i was in another, similar thread on another subforum )

Did you work into mass hysteria by diagnosing yourself on the internet?

Thanks to the attitude of ED as of current.. probably.. yeah.. Thanks ED

But yeah.. most horror stories come from abuse..

There are a lot of threads made by people suffering from post MDMA use.. but these seem to be within the next week of their last use.. so chances are they pretty much fully recovered within the next few days of post.

What are you talking about? Did you even read the post properly? :S

1) I never said 99% of it was actually MDMA. I said 99% of people with the horror comedown stories never bothered to test their product.
2) Again, no idea what you are talking about. They can ID themselves by testing it, I have seen threads where it was a negative test for MDMA but they took it anyway !
3) So what? Does that mean it doesn't matter? :S
4) Something we're trying to change, but as I explained, this forum is basically a massive concentration of bad stories. People don;t post about the good times only when they need help when they've already fucked up.

 

[swedger77]

Claiming that mdma is safer than other drugs in this context is just total nonsense.

Comparing mdma to cocaine, heroin, ketamine etc is like comparing chalk with cheese.

All these drugs are very different, all these drugs come with different dangers.

Is MDMA dangerous is the question and the answer is yes it can be dangerous trying to play down these dangers using other drugs as the quote serves no use to anyone.

Some UK scientists came up with this list of dangerous drugs based on several harm factors like, physical, mental, financial, etc

NSFW:

http://cognitivelibertyuk.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/drug-harm-charts-psychedelics/

 

[Mazzab]

Awesome swedger77! Where'd you find that bad boy?

 

[swedger77]

Awesome swedger77! Where'd you find that bad boy?

Its fairly old news (Nov 2010) . It was created by a team headed up by Professor Nutt who was a UK Government Drug advisor who was sacked for telling the Government thAT MDMA and LSD were less harmful than alcohol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked

He also came out with MDMA is statistically safer than horse riding and backed it up with stats. Im a huge fan of Professor Nutt, he realises that all current drug laws are failing in every area. - Anyway this is a bit off topic

 

[Bass Melody]

^ I think there's even a few videos up on youtube on this.

I will tell you my experience. Feel free to skip on by also.

MDMA is my DOC. I first took it in June 2000. I had already over the year prior watched my friends on it, oh, about 2 or 3 times. I saw how amazing they felt, how bonded we became. I saw an apparent lack of negative side effects or paranoia. This was incredibly exciting for me at this time.

You have to understand I do not fully appreciate tripping on hallucinogens. I get the fear. I tended by this time, at 20 years old (in 2000, three years after trying LSD/Magic Mushrooms, the first "real" drugs I'd done.), to be pretty cautious when trying a new substance. But that preceding year of watching my friends rolling hard on the ecstasy made me want to try it so very much. So I took a whole pill. I was advised even then that half should be enough for a first time, but I wasn't interested in listening to that bit of advise. I wanted the full experience! I had to prove myself, had a reputation to uphold. I was that girl who can handle herself. Mostly. Another reason I had to get away from hallucinogens. I do not have the control. I must have ALL the control.

Anyways, I did have the most amazing experience, and felt at points that I could converse with people in our minds. Blew me away, better than I could have ever dreamed! I was hooked not only by the MDMA, but also by the rave scene, which was the setting to my set that first spectacular roll. I went to another party within a few months of that first experience. I ate a pill. And a few weeks after that, I went to a party and ate another pill. Then that Friday I went down to the bar before going out Saturday.

The next thing I knew, I was going out 3 or 4 times a week, owned my first pair of turntables, a stack of vinyl and I knew everyone! My contact list was full! I was always on the go, to shows, friend's places, afterhours, pre-drinks, the beach, dinner, you name it.

By now, I also had acquired the knowledge that pills will not work as well if used regularly. I dosed maybe 5 or 6 time a year, for special occasions. Usually a few pills a weekend. As this was when I was playing out the most, I needed to stay sober for gigs. I was not one of the lucky ones who could spin well while under the influence of MDMA (or whatever felt like it at the time. 'Cause no, I was not testing this shit. I knew I should, just didn't. But I didn't really drink alcohol, and do many other substances. A big weekend out at this time would have consisted of 2 beer and a joint). This continued for a few years. Then I gained a new boyfriend, himself also a DJ, who bordered on abusing drugs. Between us, we managed to cross that invisible line. And that continued for a few years.

Eventually, we broke up, I stopped playing gigs, stopped moving in the same circle of friends. Still tried to dose every so often, but was not nearly enjoying the side effects that came both during the roll, and on afterwards. There were around a lot of bunk or garbage pills, or so I thought. So I gave up trying for a while. Some of life's ebb and flow had me on an SSRI (Escitalopram) for most of a year. I weened myself off of this on my own as I was so heartbroken over not being able to feel any effects from doing ecstasy. But to find that out, I had to ignore the harm reduction advise of which I was well apprised. I was desperate to feel high on ecstasy again. So I did some reckless amounts of entactogens. Amounts I would never have thought in the years 2000 - 2004 I would have ever dreamed I would do. I ALWAYS knew better. I was adamant about using harm reduction techniques.

For a while, I was not sure I had not done real damage with the amounts I consumed while on an SSRI and in search of hedonistic euphoria. I do believe my short term memory is slightly less than perhaps most of my peers. I also think the fact that I'm not a huge drinker really aided me (except for those couple years I was on the coca-ethanol train. That became a pretty close 2nd behind my ecstasy love. There's damage that can be done! Luckily, not to me.) But even at points in time where definitely I would call my use abuse, I do not feel all the worse for wear. I am in my current age more mature in following through on testing my product, I know my dose, and I don't binge. And, I do still feel most of the magic. And I still love to spend a night dancing. Music still moves me. I just can't do it as often anymore.

So, to echo what others have said, please follow the 1-2mg/kg body weight (I won't tell you not to take 300-400 mgs, as I don't know your weight and whether you plan to re-dose, share with a friend (people on ecstasy tend to share more I've found- whether it's mindset or lack of moreishness with the ecstasy, I dunno. Just what I've noticed.) or few friends. Go and have fun!

 

[coors light]

Its fairly old news (Nov 2010) . It was created by a team headed up by Professor Nutt who was a UK Government Drug advisor who was sacked for telling the Government thAT MDMA and LSD were less harmful than alcohol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked

He also came out with MDMA is statistically safer than horse riding and backed it up with stats. Im a huge fan of Professor Nutt, he realises that all current drug laws are failing in every area. - Anyway this is a bit off topic

I love when he talks about the stupidity of criminalising people for taking drugs such as cannabis. the man definitely knows his shit, he was only fired for telling the truth in my opinion.

 

[Anon610]

Honestly as a former MDMA abuser I'd say pure MDMA isn't very dangerous at all. Its all the shit its cut with. I don't think you can find one death directly attributed to MDMA that wasn't dehydration or overhydration.
Mixing it with alcohol? Bad idea. Don't do it. Get your shit tested. Know your dose, and wait between usage at least a month. Period. And I guarantee you will have little to no side effects as long is its real MDMA.

 

[Alaska457]

I think that MDMA could actually have the reverse effects of a bad come-down if it is taken without being abused by somebody who is depressed or has anxiety. With all the mental disorders they usually go back to Serotonin levels and how if you get it balanced out it will go away, they actually just put me on anti-depressants for my OCD because they thought it would help, but nothing changed. In some people I think the brain has just stopped creating serotonin or producing it right and that's why they get all depressed, and MDMA could actually get everything flowing again. I'm not sure if this would work but it seems that MDMA does the same thing any medication given to you by a doctor would do.


Maybe taking like 1MG of MDMA everyday instead of those pills doctors give you would actually help? It'd be interesting to see, but I'm not going to test it out myself haha, still coming off a bad come down.