N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
The Big and Bangin' Pseudo-Advanced Drug Chemistry, Pharmacology and More Thread, V.2
optimuswind
Bluelighter
so the current understanding really isn't as clear as my GP would make it out to be? I would say even wikipedia has bias towards it on various drugs article pages, along with the bad sure, but a bit more left than right. should I even mention to him that the way he thinks they work is an outdated theory or do you think he knows that?
psood0nym
Bluelighter
Yep, that's the essential logic behind clinical human trials. I'm no expert but I've looked around enough to see that working with humans is really messy. That's why everyone working outside physics has "physics envy." Physics is as simple and easily controllable as it gets, yet at it's highest levels of sophistication it still takes a lifetime of devotion by the highly intelligent to be halfway competent at making reliable novel predictions in the field. Much (most) of progress is tinkering around and seeing what works well enough to convince others to fund more work or to make a profit on one's own, then rationalizing it's far more than this post hoc (just look at the enormous role of serendipity in discovery). This strategy has been surprisingly successful, and occasionally disastrous, so it's "OK" in my book, though hopefully we find a less risky strategy.
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sekio
Bluelight Crew
Pretty much. I think some GP's spend more of their time treating patients according to their med school education, rather than reading the medical journals.
My psychiatrist probably doesn't, or he'd still be prescribing opiates and amphetamine for depression left and right!
Lombergerh
Bluelighter
How stable are nootropics like aniracetam, meclofenoxate and hydergine?
They all been stored in very unsuitable conditions for around 5 month.
psood0nym
Bluelighter
I know alpha-blockers have been used to treat severe cases of psychedelic vasoconstriction, but are skeletal muscle vasodilators better for alleviating the aches and tension from normal recreational doses of vasoconstricting psychedelics like LSD? Whether alpha-blockers or muscle relaxants are best, what fairly common drug among them is likely to be able to alleviate psychedelic vasoconstriction with minimal influence on mental lucidity?
pharmakos
Bluelighter
idk if its a general rule among muscle relaxers, but the common muscle relaxer cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) is a 5HT-2A ANTagonist.... just a heads up
i tried using it to lighten the load on my 2C-P trips a few times, the trips were a bit more dull than usual, didn't put two and two together til later 
psood0nym
Bluelighter
^I've been looking around and I'm somewhat hopeful that transdermal L-Arginine creme may be the answer. Oral L-Arginine gives me a headache, but perhaps if I just rubbed it onto my back, shoulders, and neck it would be enough to alleviate the most annoying sources of tension.
Has anybody out there successfully used such products for common psychedelic vasoconstrictive annoyances?
pharmakos
Bluelighter
hm i wonder why oral l-arginine gives you a headache. what dosage do you usually use, and what fluids do you usually take it with?
i have no experience with topical l-arginine, oral works fine for me so long as i drink a bunch of water with it.
psood0nym
Bluelighter
Well, maybe it was coincidental, but l-arginine has given me a headache twice in the past. I've used 750mg combined with citrulline orally. I can't recall the fluids. Should I take it with some minimal volume of water?
pharmakos
Bluelighter
nah more water is better IME but i don't even have a pseudo-advanced theory for why
also i usually take 3000mg-5000mg
Why do both 5-HT2a agonists and antagonists lead to down-regulation of 5-HT2a?
i suspect that when both bind to the receptor, "faulty" receptor activation/structure is detected and the receptors in question are internalised and degraded.
what i find really intriguing, is that low doses of 5-ht2 receptor agonists / 5-ht releasers can lead to upregulation. i have no idea how that might work.
endotropic
Bluelight Crew
The 5-HT system is so fascinating. I hope we come close to fully understanding it in my lifetime.
SONN
Bluelighter
splendid news 
that means some of the longer lasting afterglows i've gotten from low dose Methylone may have actually been serotonin upregulation
psood0nym
Bluelighter
As much as I share in your enthusiasm, I'm skeptical that the human brain has the capacity to fully understand itself even given infinite time (and I'm using "fully" in the weak, general, not technical or nitpicking sense). Gödel's incompleteness theorems, insofar as my cursory look at them is concerned, spring to mind as instructive analogies in considering such a task. Abandon all hope ye who entertain such shiz [smiley face].
pharmakos
Bluelighter
there's a theory that says that if anyone ever understood exactly what the universe was and why it was here, then the universe would spontaneously cease to exist and be replaced by something even more bizarre
there's another theory that says that this has already happened
Interesting that you bring this up because it brings to mind an article which I read in class a few years ago about how computers will be constructed which have knowledge beyond human comprehension (their mathematics and such still work out when tested). So we may have a gateway, if you will.
Gaius
Bluelighter
I have a question.
Would a 5mg/kg oral dose of agmatine be likely inhibit the beneficial effects of guanfacine?
This paper discusses the seemingly paradoxical behavior of agmatine at the α2A adrenergic receptors, and how it displaces clonidine significantly at concentrations above 10μM or so.
Also how likely is it that agmatine would augment the effects of bupropion at those concentrations, given that this study only used 10mg/kg IV doses to assess this quality?
I take both of the aforementioned pharmaceuticals and was considering supplementing agmatine, but I'm having trouble with the cost:benefit analysis.
