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The Big and Bangin' Pseudo-Advanced Drug Chemistry, Pharmacology and More Thread, V.2

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so the current understanding really isn't as clear as my GP would make it out to be? I would say even wikipedia has bias towards it on various drugs article pages, along with the bad sure, but a bit more left than right. should I even mention to him that the way he thinks they work is an outdated theory or do you think he knows that?
 
optimuswind said:
It sounds like we're just throwing things at the brain and hoping something sticks, and as long as it appears to work whether we know how or not, and it doesn't cause any serious side effects, it's packaged and sold?
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Yep, that's the essential logic behind clinical human trials. I'm no expert but I've looked around enough to see that working with humans is really messy. That's why everyone working outside physics has "physics envy." Physics is as simple and easily controllable as it gets, yet at it's highest levels of sophistication it still takes a lifetime of devotion by the highly intelligent to be halfway competent at making reliable novel predictions in the field. Much (most) of progress is tinkering around and seeing what works well enough to convince others to fund more work or to make a profit on one's own, then rationalizing it's far more than this post hoc (just look at the enormous role of serendipity in discovery). This strategy has been surprisingly successful, and occasionally disastrous, so it's "OK" in my book, though hopefully we find a less risky strategy.
 
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so the current understanding really isn't as clear as my GP would make it out to be?
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Pretty much. I think some GP's spend more of their time treating patients according to their med school education, rather than reading the medical journals.
 
How stable are nootropics like aniracetam, meclofenoxate and hydergine?
They all been stored in very unsuitable conditions for around 5 month.
 
Depends how unsuitable the conditions are. It's not a binary situation, but if you leave them moist and exposed to air for that time they may have degraded somewhat. How much? Impossible to say.
 
I know alpha-blockers have been used to treat severe cases of psychedelic vasoconstriction, but are skeletal muscle vasodilators better for alleviating the aches and tension from normal recreational doses of vasoconstricting psychedelics like LSD? Whether alpha-blockers or muscle relaxants are best, what fairly common drug among them is likely to be able to alleviate psychedelic vasoconstriction with minimal influence on mental lucidity?
 
idk if its a general rule among muscle relaxers, but the common muscle relaxer cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) is a 5HT-2A ANTagonist.... just a heads up

i tried using it to lighten the load on my 2C-P trips a few times, the trips were a bit more dull than usual, didn't put two and two together til later :)
 
^I've been looking around and I'm somewhat hopeful that transdermal L-Arginine creme may be the answer. Oral L-Arginine gives me a headache, but perhaps if I just rubbed it onto my back, shoulders, and neck it would be enough to alleviate the most annoying sources of tension.

Has anybody out there successfully used such products for common psychedelic vasoconstrictive annoyances?
 
hm i wonder why oral l-arginine gives you a headache. what dosage do you usually use, and what fluids do you usually take it with?

i have no experience with topical l-arginine, oral works fine for me so long as i drink a bunch of water with it.
 
thenightwatch said:
hm i wonder why oral l-arginine gives you a headache. what dosage do you usually use, and what fluids do you usually take it with?

i have no experience with topical l-arginine, oral works fine for me so long as i drink a bunch of water with it.
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Well, maybe it was coincidental, but l-arginine has given me a headache twice in the past. I've used 750mg combined with citrulline orally. I can't recall the fluids. Should I take it with some minimal volume of water?
 
i suspect that when both bind to the receptor, "faulty" receptor activation/structure is detected and the receptors in question are internalised and degraded.

what i find really intriguing, is that low doses of 5-ht2 receptor agonists / 5-ht releasers can lead to upregulation. i have no idea how that might work.
 
Black said:
i suspect that when both bind to the receptor, "faulty" receptor activation/structure is detected and the receptors in question are internalised and degraded.

what i find really intriguing, is that low doses of 5-ht2 receptor agonists / 5-ht releasers can lead to upregulation. i have no idea how that might work.
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The 5-HT system is so fascinating. I hope we come close to fully understanding it in my lifetime.
 
Black said:
what i find really intriguing, is that low doses of 5-ht2 receptor agonists / 5-ht releasers can lead to upregulation. i have no idea how that might work.
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splendid news =D that means some of the longer lasting afterglows i've gotten from low dose Methylone may have actually been serotonin upregulation
 
The 5-HT system is so fascinating. I hope we come close to fully understanding it in my lifetime.
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As much as I share in your enthusiasm, I'm skeptical that the human brain has the capacity to fully understand itself even given infinite time (and I'm using "fully" in the weak, general, not technical or nitpicking sense). Gödel's incompleteness theorems, insofar as my cursory look at them is concerned, spring to mind as instructive analogies in considering such a task. Abandon all hope ye who entertain such shiz [smiley face].
 
there's a theory that says that if anyone ever understood exactly what the universe was and why it was here, then the universe would spontaneously cease to exist and be replaced by something even more bizarre

there's another theory that says that this has already happened
 
psood0nym said:
As much as I share in your enthusiasm, I'm skeptical that the human brain has the capacity to fully understand itself even given infinite time (and I'm using "fully" in the weak, general, not technical or nitpicking sense). Gödel's incompleteness theorems, insofar as my cursory look at them is concerned, spring to mind as instructive analogies in considering such a task. Abandon all hope ye who entertain such shiz [smiley face].
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Interesting that you bring this up because it brings to mind an article which I read in class a few years ago about how computers will be constructed which have knowledge beyond human comprehension (their mathematics and such still work out when tested). So we may have a gateway, if you will.
 
I have a question.

Would a 5mg/kg oral dose of agmatine be likely inhibit the beneficial effects of guanfacine?

This paper discusses the seemingly paradoxical behavior of agmatine at the α2A adrenergic receptors, and how it displaces clonidine significantly at concentrations above 10μM or so.

Also how likely is it that agmatine would augment the effects of bupropion at those concentrations, given that this study only used 10mg/kg IV doses to assess this quality?

I take both of the aforementioned pharmaceuticals and was considering supplementing agmatine, but I'm having trouble with the cost:benefit analysis.
 
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