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Gibberings : CXXIII : Get out of Bed you fuckers!

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i had a dream of being stuck in a car flying off a bridge into the sea earlier, bright clear day crystal clear water was vivid as fuck, we were all shouting, usually i wake up but i hit the bottom in falling dreams but slammed into the sea and felt pain, was odd
 
Mornin', all :)

Managed to doze off again for a few hours at some point. Not very bloody many though cos was up again at five and not been able to get back off again so accepted me fate and had the current morning ritual: codeine, coffee, cigs and a bit o' brekky whist watching a nice doc. Was bastard cold overnight too - woke up to snow falling but that seems to have stopped and thawed already. No follow-up dreams noted neither. Am rather fond of and fascinated by dreams - even other people's - cos it's just about the only glimpse of how most of our brain (the 99.99% of it that's essentially entirely subconscious) sees things. Poor ol' conscious brain basically just picks up the scraps and does what it's told. Free will my arse. We don't even get to make decisions consciously - if you hook a folk up to the right bit of kit you can analyze the subconscious brain activity and know what decision has been made up to ten seconds before the folk himself knows it. Kinda spooky really 8(
 
pontifex01 said:
Where's "the farmer" gone anyway?
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In bed with B&W imo

Hope you're doing better today SHM...
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Marvellous. ;)


Shambles said:
Poor ol' conscious brain basically just picks up the scraps and does what it's told. Free will my arse. We don't even get to make decisions consciously - if you hook a folk up to the right bit of kit you can analyze the subconscious brain activity and know what decision has been made up to ten seconds before the folk himself knows it. Kinda spooky really 8(
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You seem to suggest that 'we' are only our conscious selves. (In which case, who has our dreams?)

We still make the decisions. We still have free will. We just may not 'know' about it. We do know. We just may not 'know' that we know.

I became Donald Rumsfeld over night. Does this happen to anyone else?
 
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ColtDan said:
i had a dream of being stuck in a car flying off a bridge into the sea earlier, bright clear day crystal clear water was vivid as fuck, we were all shouting, usually i wake up but i hit the bottom in falling dreams but slammed into the sea and felt pain, was odd
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I had a similar one many moons ago.
Still remember the water gushing through the dashboard air/heater vents. Made it seem all too real.

Morning peeps!
 
^^ Ha! I've never become Donald Rumsfeld at any stage afaik. Not entirely sure I'd want to either. Might be fun in small bursts, mind. Could have all kindsa fun 'n' games during a brief Rumsfeld interlude, I'd suspect :D

And ya, you make a good point on the "we/me/I" thing and are obviously correct. Was meaning that we tend to see ourselves as our conscious selves cos that's the bit we're familiar with. What lies beneath is mostly a complete mystery barely glimpsed and somewhat alien. Decisions are still made by us even if we're not consciously aware of how they're made... but that's what I find fascinating - how are decisions made? What are the processes that go on in there and how do they relate to what feels for all the world like a conscious decision making process out here. Am just deeply intrigued at having this whole other aspect of "Self" that's basically in control and can't help but wonder whether the conscious aspect is essentially rubberstamping decisions made elsewhere and if so (as seems to be the case) in what sense does true free will exist?

Having said that, is probably a tad early to be pondering such things in any great detail so may just have another cuppa coffee and a cig instead of pondering such things. Or perhaps go for a lil light ponderation and consider my options as and when I'm informed of what the are by the rest of me.
 
Mornin' y'all <3

I need to find the substance that's like cotton wool but heavier so I can describe the feeling of my head this morrow (and many like it).
I'd go with steel wool but my brain is far too jelly-esque for that 8(

Ah well, copious cuppas and benzos should ease me out of it... Maybe the sneaky hair of the dog... Because that's a brilliant idea!

Hope you all have a lovely Wed-nez-dairy <3
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
You seem to suggest that 'we' are only our conscious selves. (In which case, who has our dreams?)

We still make the decisions. We still have free will. We just may not 'know' about it. We do know. We just may not 'know' that we know.

I became Donald Rumsfeld over night. Does this happen to anyone else?
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is life all just a predetermined chemical reaction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle if it is then its an unpredictable one (at least from our vantage point here on the inside of it)
 
Shambles said:
Ha! I've never become Donald Rumsfeld at any stage afaik. Not entirely sure I'd want to either. Might be fun in small bursts, mind. Could have all kindsa fun 'n' games during a brief Rumsfeld interlude, I'd suspect :D

And ya, you make a good point on the "we/me/I" thing and are obviously correct. Was meaning that we tend to see ourselves as our conscious selves cos that's the bit we're familiar with. What lies beneath is mostly a complete mystery barely glimpsed and somewhat alien. Decisions are still made by us even if we're not consciously aware of how they're made... but that's what I find fascinating - how are decisions made? What are the processes that go on in there and how do the relate to what feels for all the world like a conscious decision making process. Am just deeply intrigued at having this whole other aspect of "Self" that's basically in control and can't help but wonder whether the conscious aspect is essentially rubberstamping decisions made elsewhere and if so (as seems to be the case) in what sense does true free will exist?
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Me too (the bold bit). I relate that 'self' to the ego (meaning I'm about to use my own terminology :p) Which, of course, loves to think its in control. The beauty/irony being of course that control is an illusion. LSD (and the rest) tell us there's more going on. My belief, my view, is that there is a universal consciousness, of which all living unconscious minds (in every living thing) is part of. That's the one. The unity. Ego, or self, is what separates us from the monkeys and the ants. Our ego consciousness, normal waking consciousness, separates us from the one. It makes us consciously SELFish. Which has its uses. But many illusions too.

Because of this separation I argue we do have free will, certainly in normal waking consciousness. Whether that free will is a blessing or a burden...well, fuck, its a burden.

Man is condemned to be free - Sartre. One of me favourite quotes.
 
I don't think life is a predetermined chemical reaction at all myself. Heisenberg's Principle and plenty other things rather put the kybosh on that as an idea. Am still somewhat dubious about the extent of free will though. But, and I'm guessing this may be one of SHM's objections, that makes no difference to personal responsibility either imo. Somewhat similar to how somebody with a severly psychopathic personality disorder is still responsible for chopping folk up even though it could be argued such a person didn't choose to be born with an absence - or extreme distortion - of a sense of personal responsibility or morality. Not precisely akin to such circumstance - barely at all really - but is the best I could do at this time of the morn and before embarking on this second cuppa coffee anyway.

Monsta: Mornin :)

Hair of the dog is probably a Bad Thing if you would rather avoid the cottonsteelwoollyheadfuzzyfug tomorrow, I'd say. Have never been able to stomach 'em personally though. Am a bit pussy when it comes to drinking actually. This is a Good Thing though :D

EDIT: When in more hippifried moods I am very fond of the concept of The Universal One. Is very appealing on many levels. I'm not sure I could honestly claim to truly believe it is the case but would certainly be one of the options I least object to and would probably be in favour of if we get to vote on which underlying reality we want to exist with.
 
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Stop reminding me I'm missing my philosophy lecture :p;)

Woke up too late, too cold to get out of bed and make a run for it and all. Will spend the morning going through lecture notes and whatnot so I don't feel too guilty.

Or play Skyrim, whatever.

Hope we're all well <3
 
Am vaguely aware of Compatablism, Ponti. Not really read up on it though - just dimly aware that it sounds somewhat similar to my current opinions on the matter from the little I've heard. I generally don't go in for saying "I'm a Compatablist" (or whatever else) due to my belief in one of my fave quotes (that I'll have to paraphrase due to lack of caffeine): "Never believe anybody's bullshit completely. Not even your own.".

Somewhat similar to yourself, I am more than happy with being a part of an ongoing story of which I know precious little. We are all stardust and one day may be stars again. Or planets. Or bacteria. Or peoples. Or black holes. Or... and all that good stuff. Taking that a step further and saying that this thing we - and all other particles in motion - are an aspect of is in itself a consciousness of some kind is not something I can claim to truly believe as opposed to simply being rather pleased if it is the case.

Also, mornin', Snolls :)

Who needs to go in for lectures when you have such cutting edge philosophical deepities plastered all over Gibberings this morning, eh? :D
 
Shambles said:
Am vaguely aware of Compatablism, Ponti. Not really read up on it though - just dimly aware that it sounds somewhat similar to my current opinions on the matter from the little I've heard. I generally don't go in for saying "I'm a Compatablist" (or whatever else) due to my belief in one of my fave quotes (that I'll have to paraphrase due to lack of caffeine): "Never believe anybody's bullshit completely. Not even your own.".

Somewhat similar to yourself, I am more than happy with being a part of an ongoing story of which I know precious little. We are all stardust and one day may be stars again. Or planets. Or bacteria. Or peoples. Or black holes. Or... and all that good stuff. Taking that a step further and saying that this thing we - and all other particles in motion - are an aspect of is in itself a consciousness of some kind is not something I can claim to truly believe as opposed to simply being rather pleased if it is the case.

Also, mornin', Snolls :)

Who needs to go in for lectures when you have such cutting edge philosophical deepities plastered all over Gibberings this morning, eh? :D
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Yep yep, should be paying my tuition fees to you lot ;)
 
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