Codeine & CWE Megathread: Version II - [insert witty title]

[tentram]

it will be a combination of the apap/ibu and binders/fillers getting through after squeezing.

 

[footscrazy]

^ Agreed. Force wont be dissolving anything extra, but it most likely will be pushing through more solids suspended in the liquid. Hopefully the coffee filter will catch those solids when it goes through that, though some particles are small enough that they get through the coffee filter too. Generally when you're squeezing you will be pushing through more paracetamol or ibu.

 

[Captain Brewster]

^ but then when I use the coffee filter I still can't get it as clear. Sucks, it's like a catch 22.

 

[tentram]

because you're squeezing through particles that are otherwise too coarse to pass through filtration except after and with that added force. as footscrazy said there are particles which will pass through regardless.

 

[Sustanon]

^ but then when I use the coffee filter I still can't get it as clear. Sucks, it's like a catch 22.

The fillers and dyes still get through as some of them are water soluble, it doesnt really matter in the end whether its clear or cloudy as only so much ibu/para is soluble in cold water.

 

[footscrazy]

^ It does matter, because cloudiness could mean that solid particles have got through as well as the ibu or paracetamol which has dissolved in the water. Small particles can get through both cloth and coffee filters; more will get through if you squeeze them. Ibu/para solubility is only one part of it!

You're right that fillers and dyes can make your cdub cloudy too, and with experience and a proper technique you should be able to be reasonably confident that your cdub is safe even if it isn't 100% clear, but saying that it doesn't matter if it's cloudy is wrong. It's potentially dangerous advice, if for example someone just used a loosely woven shirt to filter and ended up with a lot of paracetamol in their glass, but assumed the cloudiness was just dyes and was safe.

I don't know if you're assuming that you're talking to an experienced audience - people that know how to do a cwe properly, but we have so many guests reading this forum. I think it's important to always assume you're writing for people with no knowledge whatsoever because in many cases, that'll be the case. This is really cwe safety 101 too - more ibu/para in the end product will cause a cloudier solution, it's not the only thing that causes cloudiness, but cloudiness still matters...!

 

[Sustanon]

^ It does matter, because cloudiness could mean that solid particles have got through as well as the ibu or paracetamol which has dissolved in the water. Small particles can get through both cloth and coffee filters; more will get through if you squeeze them. Ibu/para solubility is only one part of it!

You're right that fillers and dyes can make your cdub cloudy too, and with experience and a proper technique you should be able to be reasonably confident that your cdub is safe even if it isn't 100% clear, but saying that it doesn't matter if it's cloudy is wrong. It's potentially dangerous advice, if for example someone just used a loosely woven shirt to filter and ended up with a lot of paracetamol in their glass, but assumed the cloudiness was just dyes and was safe.

I don't know if you're assuming that you're talking to an experienced audience - people that know how to do a cwe properly, but we have so many guests reading this forum. I think it's important to always assume you're writing for people with no knowledge whatsoever because in many cases, that'll be the case. This is really cwe safety 101 too - more ibu/para in the end product will cause a cloudier solution, it's not the only thing that causes cloudiness, but cloudiness still matters...!

hmmm yeah sorry i didnt phrase it properly, what I meant is that sometimes no matter how well u filter ur pills sometimes (certain brands) the cloudiness is unavoidable but technically your right, if the extraction is cloudy it doesnt always mean its not loaded with a bunch of harmful stuff like ibu/para. I was actually assuming that most people are aware of the toxicity of these 2 actives that can be found in most OTC general pain medications. If anyone is attempting a CWE it is a must to acquire knowledge about the solubility and filtration of these harmful substances as they can be quite dangerous. It would be nice if some of you who just started CWE's to look up my experiments that I made involving the whole filtration process along with calculations.

 

[tentram]

titanium dioxide is present in some formulations and results in a cloudy colour after an extraction. if cloudiness after a decent extract is a concern then check for it as an ingredient listed and that can help rule out a bad technique.

the ideal extraction method would be to first pass it through some tightly woven fabric as to separate the more coarse particulates then have it pass through a coffee filter to ensure you're cutting out as much apap/ibu as possible.

paracetemol and ibuprofen aren't the devil's drugs either, they have their place in pain managment. i can speak from experience that used in conjunction with oxy or morphine, for instance, an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) will generally increase analgesia.

if you're regularly using paracetemol/cwe then it would be to check out info on n-acetyl cysteine . it is a supplement used to counteract toxicity levels.

 

[Ashley]

titanium dioxide is present in some formulations and results in a cloudy colour after an extraction. if cloudiness after a decent extract is a concern then check for it as an ingredient listed and that can help rule out a bad technique.

paracetemol and ibuprofen aren't the devil's drugs either, they have their place in pain managment. i can speak from experience that used in conjunction with oxy or morphine, for instance, an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) will generally increase analgesia.

Yeah, a lot of what is left in the final solution isn't just ibuprofen or paracetamol, it will be a mix of insolubles including caplet binders (should be listed on the packet as aforementioned) and some ibuprofen/paracetamol that hasn't dissolved.

They're not the devil's drugs no, but paracetamol is pretty toxic on the liver and is a very ineffective analgesic by medical standards - despite the fact that hospitals, detoxes, etc. hand it out like candy. Ibuprofen to a lesser extent, but in large amounts is bad for the stomach. It is a much better painkiller than paracetamol. If by increasing the analgesia you mean increasing the strength of the high - analgesia means to relieve pain (i.e. achieve analgesia).

Ash.

 

[tentram]

ibuprofen seems to be the safer/better alternative to apap but personally i get better analgesia (yeah, pain relief as i'm on PM, not boosting the high) and relief from paracetemol. i've abused cwe's for years now and my liver is still intact and working just fine as of a checkup i had going back a few months.

if you're a heavy user and are worried you're doing your liver damage then simply ask for your liver enzymes to be tested/checked out by your doc next time you're in for a visit.

 

[bobbydarren]

titanium dioxide is present in some formulations and results in a cloudy colour after an extraction. if cloudiness after a decent extract is a concern then check for it as an ingredient listed and that can help rule out a bad technique.

the ideal extraction method would be to first pass it through some tightly woven fabric as to separate the more coarse particulates then have it pass through a coffee filter to ensure you're cutting out as much apap/ibu as possible.
.

Titanium dioxide is not soluble in water so would be an another additive. What you say is the ideal process isn't, although it seems like it would be. You are much better off putting all the gunk and the liquid in the coffee filter and waiting hours, it will come out much clear than removing gunk first. I have theorised the gunk is behaving as a sedimentary filter much the same way sand can be used with water processing. It just takes too long to be a reasonable option.

What i've discovered works best and isn't really even a compromise is to have a non stretching piece of synthetic fabric [not cotton!], underneath a coffee filter. pour liquid and gunk into filter. Try to leave it long enough for some of the water to get through then create a pouch out of the material with the coffee filter pouched up inside. Then slowly and gently start squeezing, without causing movement between filter and fabric which will tear filter.

It works well as long as you don't rip the paper filter. If you can be gentle and remove most of the water first then if you do rip filter with more scrunching it doesn't matter that much as there's muich less liquid to act as carrier for contamjinents through fabric.

 

[Ashley]

I suppose you could always micron filter the solution post filtering it through a fabric if you're really worried/paranoid/anal. Provided enough particulate matter has been caught by the filter allowing it to fit through a wheel filter without clogging it up. I doubt a blue wheel filter (0.2um) would be big enough. Red or brown wheel filters would likely be preferable. Though the blue wheel filters (smallest micron filter) works great for an 8mg Suboxone tablet.. And those things mull up like soup!

But really, the amount of unwanted paracetamol/ibuprofen remaining in your liquid water solution really isn't enough to stress about. My extractions have always come out milky/cloudy, and if there was considerable amounts of unwanted analgesics contained within; specifically ibuprofen, surely I would have experienced stomach upset or pain at some point based upon how irritating ibuprofen is on the stomach? Admittedly I have only recently started using codeine on a regular basis to keep heroin withdrawals at bay, and only when I can't obtain any buprenorphine.

This is of interest to me, having contracted Hepatitis C in the last six months - it is of utmost importance that I look after my liver and I know paracetamol is very toxic to the liver especially if large amounts are ingested. But I have always done my cold water extractions with preparations containing ibuprofen, as it is far less soluble in water than paracetamol.

Ash.

 

[pinkanga]

^ It does matter, because cloudiness could mean that solid particles have got through as well as the ibu or paracetamol which has dissolved in the water. Small particles can get through both cloth and coffee filters; more will get through if you squeeze them. Ibu/para solubility is only one part of it!

You're right that fillers and dyes can make your cdub cloudy too, and with experience and a proper technique you should be able to be reasonably confident that your cdub is safe even if it isn't 100% clear, but saying that it doesn't matter if it's cloudy is wrong. It's potentially dangerous advice, if for example someone just used a loosely woven shirt to filter and ended up with a lot of paracetamol in their glass, but assumed the cloudiness was just dyes and was safe.

I don't know if you're assuming that you're talking to an experienced audience - people that know how to do a cwe properly, but we have so many guests reading this forum. I think it's important to always assume you're writing for people with no knowledge whatsoever because in many cases, that'll be the case. This is really cwe safety 101 too - more ibu/para in the end product will cause a cloudier solution, it's not the only thing that causes cloudiness, but cloudiness still matters...!

Youre absolutely right, and I completely agree. Point well taken. It easy for us 'regulars' to become a little blase from time to time.

 

[Ashley]

When I was really poor and using h (still am really poor actually) I pre-loaded on codeine before swinging the hammer and got some really good cheap nods, if you're still using h ash I recommend giving it a go, you might save yourself some coin. Pst works well too, you just have to be wary of the strength of the seeds. I recently got a batch of seeds that were noticably stronger than usual, same brand and everything. It felt like there was a much higher codeine content in them.

Thanks for the heads up cassandragemini. I think I might try pre-loading with codeine before my next shot of heroin. A handful of people have recommended it; you, Sustanon and footsy, off the top of my head. The heroin I am getting at the moment is pretty potent and for a quarter and a touch of my fortnightly disability pension, I can buy enough to make 4 good shots. I've only been using a few days each fortnight, would be good if dosing the codeine could save me some money.

Ash.

 

[Ashley]

..and where is that guy that mentioned he'd made a video on how to do a CWE?

It is such a simple process, but so many people struggle with it for some reason. Including myself initially, it took a couple tries to get it right. A good video would be great for those who are new but keen on doing cold water extractions of codeine. Especially those poor bastards that are just eating N+/Panafen Plus daily without any sort of filtration - there are more people that do this than you think, I have personally known two people who were addicted to codeine and would just eat a box a day. The thought of all that para/ibu makes me feel ill.

Ash.

 

[Crankinit]

..and where is that guy that mentioned he'd made a video on how to do a CWE?

It is such a simple process, but so many people struggle with it for some reason. Including myself initially, it took a couple tries to get it right. A good video would be great for those who are new but keen on doing cold water extractions of codeine. Especially those poor bastards that are just eating N+/Panafen Plus daily without any sort of filtration - there are more people that do this than you think, I have personally known two people who were addicted to codeine and would just eat a box a day. The thought of all that para/ibu makes me feel ill.

Ash.

I used to eat large quantities of panadol and nurofen for days at a time, not to get high off the codeine but just because they only give noticable pain relief in higher doses than the box mentions. I eventually had to stop when I woke up every morning with a horrible stomach ache that wouldn't go away until I ate. The same awful stomach ache returned every time I ate more of the pills, or any time I let my stomach get to empty, almost like my stomach would start eating away at and acidifying itself if it had nothing else to digest. This went on for months, and to this day I can only take either drug once every few days in a small dose without it giving a churning, painful stomach ache. I can only assume it gave me some kind of ulcer or damaged my stomach lining, luckily I noticed in time to cut it out before any more serious long term harm,

 

[Sonny Jim]

geez sustanon. are you still trying to defend CWE.

"cloudy solutions don't matter"

I'd laugh if this wasn't such dangerous misinformation.

I can understand CWE addicts not wanting to hear it's dangerous because a reliable source of cheap opiates is difficult to want to criticise but months have gone past since most people realised CWE is not as safe as we all wish it was and people are still flogging this dead horse.

If you sustanon can't understand that that you don't know what the cloudiness is composed of...

If you sustanon can't understand that the cloudiness could in part be powdered ibu/para (you know the ibu/para that you powdered or dissolved into water to perform a CWE)...

If you sustanon can't understand that "only so much ibu/para is soluble in cold water" is an utterly meaningless statement that does not imply any level of safety what so ever...

then you sustanon must be trying very hard to ignore all information that you come across that would have told you that CWE is not safe in the long term. It's as simple as that, you couldn't possibly be so blasé about CWE's safety if you weren't trying very hard (unconsciously?) to ignore the facts. This happens a lot in this thread, like I said nobody wants to hear that the CWE which is the answer to being a slave to heroin or methadone, is not safe for every day use.

It's wishful thinking.
It's your opinion.
It goes against the facts!
It's wrong.
It's dangerous.

WAKE UP!

 

[cassandragemini]

no worries ash, this website is all about sharing helpful info, a good portion of what i have learnt about drugs has come from BL. there's some wise people on here, definitely my favourite website of all time.

i read that you're thinking of increasing your codeine dose next time you shoot, you sure thats a good idea? its seems like you're riding on the very edge of using safely and id hate to hear that you've done yourself in from an OD, especially doing something i and others have suggested, it would break my heart. maybe you should take your usual dose of codeine and lower the dose of h you're having with it, even if only for the first couple of times just so you get a feel for how they interact. you might be surprised how much difference codeine can make when added to heroin.

also have you thought about using pst instead of codeine to keep your withdrawals at bay? i wrote off pst for a long time because i wasnt prepping it properly, now that i have my technique down i find it much better when used as maintainance and you can get a surprisingly good buzz from it too, i think the other alkaloids, especially the morphine make all the difference. i find it more pleasurable than codeine and it has better legs as well, codeine only holds me for 6 hours max, pst can hold me for 18+ if i get the dose right. also its much easier to buy, every supermarket and many of the iga's and small grocers stock it, there's no limit to what you can buy so you can get a weeks worth in one purchase sometimes. i order my groceries online and get them delivered so i can get a weeks worth without even having to leave the house. it costs around about the same per dose, i dont use that much so it works out a couple of bucks cheaper than codeine a day for me, you can get the seeds in 3 sizes; 100gm packets, 240gm jars and at some iga's you can get 500gm bags. contrary to logic buying the 100gm bags actually works out cheaper than buying in bulk, the jars have recently gone up in price and the 500gm bags work out to be more expensive at the iga near me for some reason. there are some downsides to pst; you can get some pretty nasty side effects at times, right now im covered in itchy, gross looking hives that i got from a dose i did last week - im literally covered in big red scabby blotches from knees to elbows, it looks like ive been attacked by bees. its getting better with the help of antihistamines and body lotion but its still pretty awful, i dont usually have problems with allergies and ive never had this from pst before but this has really fucked me up. also with large doses the amount of liquid you have to drink gets a bit intense, i triple wash my seeds so have to drink about 3 glasses of tea each dose, it doesnt taste that bad (especially compared to other brews i.e. san pedro - yuuuuuckk) but it can make you a bit nauseous just for the fact you're so full of water. then you have to take a million pisses over the next hour which can be a fucken pain if you're on the train or something. all in all its totally worth it for me at least, if you want me to pm you with some info on how to prep it if you dont already know give me a bell.

 

[Crankinit]

geez sustanon. are you still trying to defend CWE.

"cloudy solutions don't matter"

I'd laugh if this wasn't such dangerous misinformation.

I can understand CWE addicts not wanting to hear it's dangerous because a reliable source of cheap opiates is difficult to want to criticise but months have gone past since most people realised CWE is not as safe as we all wish it was and people are still flogging this dead horse.

If you sustanon can't understand that that you don't know what the cloudiness is composed of...

If you sustanon can't understand that the cloudiness could in part be powdered ibu/para (you know the ibu/para that you powdered or dissolved into water to perform a CWE)...

If you sustanon can't understand that "only so much ibu/para is soluble in cold water" is an utterly meaningless statement that does not imply any level of safety what so ever...

then you sustanon must be trying very hard to ignore all information that you come across that would have told you that CWE is not safe in the long term. It's as simple as that, you couldn't possibly be so blasé about CWE's safety if you weren't trying very hard (unconsciously?) to ignore the facts. This happens a lot in this thread, like I said nobody wants to hear that the CWE which is the answer to being a slave to heroin or methadone, is not safe for every day use.

It's wishful thinking.
It's your opinion.
It goes against the facts!
It's wrong.
It's dangerous.

WAKE UP!

If you'll look at the numbers regarding para/ibu solubility you'll realize that all but the laziest of CWE's will give you close to the recommended dose of those drugs. As long as you use cool water and filter properly, it's no more dangerous than popping the recommended dose of panadeine/nurofen +.

Cloudiness isn't a product of Para/Ibu content, but of the binders and dyes used in the pill. This is why it varies significantly from brand to brand of what otherwise contains the same active ingredient.

 

[cassandragemini]

^^ take it easy man. i agree saying things like 'if its cloudy dont worry its just the filler/binders' is irresponsible but there's no need to attack him like that, he knows he made a mistake and apologised. he has also gone to the trouble of making a 'how to' on his CWE technique to help people who need somewhere to start so they dont completely balls it up and hurt themselves. no one else has gone to the trouble of doing that. and even if his technique isnt totally safe at least people new to CWE's can then use some of the other BLer's ideas on how to make it as safe as possible using equipment that is available to them.

also what evidence do you have that CWE'ing has recently been found to be more harmful than originally thought? remember all drugs cause at least some degree of harm, street heroin has cuts and can also carry bacteria, methadone has it fair share of problems including suspected toxicity and carcinogenesis and people who use prescription pills often dont filter them properly before IV'ing and ruin themselves. unless im behind the 8 ball i dont see how properly filtered and prepared CWE's would be substantially more harmful than other opiates taken in their various ROA's.

we're a community on here, its is pretty much us and what we know and can share and learn from each other against a lot of outside prejudice so instead of tearing shreds off each other how about we look out for each other, have reasonable and friendly debate and correct others mistakes without being too judgemental and unkind.