Opioids What Happened To My Warm Fuzzies?

[Ohayou]

It's been probably 5 years since I last tried to get high on opioids before I started buprenorphine and I remember very clearly getting that warm fuzzy feeling from my highs from methadone, oxycodone, etc.

Granted, I've built up a tolerance after 4 years of bupe use but I've been off it for 3-4 weeks now. The problem is that fentanyl, morphine, and oxycodone are failing to give me the warm fuzzy part of my high, only the euphoric part (and just barely too). I just took 20mg of oxycodone and only feel slightly euphoric.

If I take enough will I get that trademark warm fuzzy high that make opiates worth doing? Is this truly just an issue of tolerance? Please note I did take loperamide earlier and many seem to think it blocks other opiates. If 20mg only gave me a small buzz, what should I try next? This is so frustrating.

 

[Tommyboy]

You have only been off of bupe for 3-4 weeks, so it's going to take longer before getting a real quality high. I had taken a few months off after 18 months of bupe, and I still didn't have that magic back. 3 months would be my rough estimate for when you can get that warm and fuzzy high back.

By the way, I don't find loperamide to block other opiates. I think that someone seemed to find this to be true for them, and then others began taking it as truth, and spreading it around. If there is scientific sources that support that, then I would like to see that, but for me personally, I did not notice the difference between my regular opiate high, and that of when I took opiates a few hours after loperamide.

 

[Ohayou]

Thanks tommyboy, I find it hard to believe lope does that too but I honestly didn't want to believe bupe was still causing opiates to suck...but that seems to be the case. Truly sucks.

 

[Tommyboy]

I remember waiting 5 weeks after my last suboxone dose to try and get high, and I was very underwhelmed. I felt good, but for a very short amount of time. Also, keep in mind that once you do get that high back, it's very easy to lose it by using too often. Limit it to once a week, or you will lose that magic just a quickly as you found it.

I don't like bothering with fentanyl and morphine as they are not that euphoric for me, so really only make me feel alright, while raising my tolerance, making it not worth it. If you really like them then go for it, but if not, I recommend saving you opiate use for when you have the ones you like the most.

 

[Ohayou]

I totally agree, fentanyl was the most boring thing I've ever taken, just made me fall asleep and feel like crap.

Morphine made me buzz but was super itchy, no nodding or anything.

Oxycodone and diamorphine are the favorites. I initially starting taking bupe to get high but the high was not nearly worth the addiction and tolerance I built.

Once a week use is a good idea and hopefully I'll start getting a good high again in a month...or several months.

In the meantime i guess I'll keep WD's at bay with lope, I can't go through full WD right now (still putting off the bupe WD) because I'm in school now, can't afford to perform poorly.

I can't believe I was one of the idiots who got addicted to bupe before being addicted to anything else in the first place, it was just the only thing available. Becoming addicted to bupe was probably the worst and most expensive decision I have ever made.

TOMMYBOY: Also, I was wondering if it is total tolerance to opiates from the bupe for so long or does bupe really hang on your receptors that long? Is it bupe in particular that does this, or would being on any opiate for that amount of time have the same effect?

 

[RegisteredStoneeer]

I totally agree, fentanyl was the most boring thing I've ever taken, just made me fall asleep and feel like crap.

Morphine made me buzz but was super itchy, no nodding or anything.

Oxycodone and diamorphine are the favorites. I initially starting taking bupe to get high but the high was not nearly worth the addiction and tolerance I built.

Once a week use is a good idea and hopefully I'll start getting a good high again in a month...or several months.

In the meantime i guess I'll keep WD's at bay with lope, I can't go through full WD right now (still putting off the bupe WD) because I'm in school now, can't afford to perform poorly.

I can't believe I was one of the idiots who got addicted to bupe before being addicted to anything else in the first place, it was just the only thing available. Becoming addicted to bupe was probably the worst and most expensive decision I have ever made.

TOMMYBOY: Also, I was wondering if it is total tolerance to opiates from the bupe for so long or does bupe really hang on your receptors that long? Is it bupe in particular that does this, or would being on any opiate for that amount of time have the same effect?

Dude, don't beat yourself up. When I first tried Bupe, (it wasn't to keep me from w/ds but to get high although I was in denial about my use) I thought it could hold promise for fun, since its so much more available and potent. However when that high fades its just an opiate maintenence thing, and that is not fun.

Look at your body and mind, if you have been used to taking bupe for 3 years, and quit for 3-4 weeks, but still taking Lope to keep w/d's away, your tolerance level isn't really back to 0, or even close. While I'm not sure lope blocks opiates, I am sure 20mg isn't a very big dose for someone oxy tolerant.(or bupe tolerant.) I feel like you just didn't dose high enough, your body needs recovery.(like us all)

 

[Ohayou]

Well the fact that I CAN get high if I take a dose much higher (maybe 3-4 times higher) is actually quite comforting (except for my bank account which shudders at how expensive one high will be) in comparison to not being able to get high for at least several months. So, maybe I will try a much higher dose, after all I should be fairly opioid tolerant.

If I didn't even feel 20mg oxy +10mg insufflated (nothing more than what could've been placebo), what would you guys recommend for my next dose? I was thinking 60-80mg oral? I was thinking 80mg with grapefruit juice but I don't want to overdo it. What would be "too much"?

 

[OpanRanger30]

Well honestly how much were you taking before you went on Bupe?

like people are saying the bupe is definitely affecting your tolerance but 30 mgs of oxy isn't really that much, especially if you are pretty familiar with opiates. doubling your dose, or even taking 1.5 times might be the best option. 80 might be overdoing it, you would probably be alright but you might get sick?

 

[Ohayou]

Alright! Here goes 60mg, will report back when it peaks.

Okay 30 minutes in and I'm having a mild panic attack thinking I might've overdosed but I don't think I have. I just feel a little stupified, not sedated, euphoric, etc. Could someone please alleviate my concerns? I'm freaking out. What happens when you OD?

 

[Missykins]

TOMMYBOY: Also, I was wondering if it is total tolerance to opiates from the bupe for so long or does bupe really hang on your receptors that long? Is it bupe in particular that does this, or would being on any opiate for that amount of time have the same effect?

No, the blockade effect is no longer present because you've exceeded the half-life of the drug. What happens is that chronic opiate administration down-regulates the mu opiate receptor of your central nervous system. It's difficult to predict how long it will take your CNS to begin to form those receptors again, which happens at the level of a complex cellular signaling and gene transcription process, but the more you challenge it with opiates, the more you delay that process.

 

[Ohayou]

What a huge disappointment.

60mg of oxy caused me DYSPHORIA, it is impossible for me to get high. The more I take to compensate tolerance, the worse I feel.

I am going to get off of it all for a while and save the oxy I have left for a treat when my tolerance goes down.

Can someone please help me with a plan to taper off as painlessly as possible with loperamide? Has anyone done this before?

I was thinking starting at 4 mg twice daily for a week, 3mg twice daily for another week, then 2mg twice daily, then 1mg twice daily, then 1mg daily, 0.5mg daily, and get as low as possible then jump off and be clean for about a month and try again.

Please help me here, I am so frustrated. How long does opioid tolerance take to go down and reach 0 after total abstinence? How hard is it to come off lope?

Keep in mind I've been on bupe for 4 years and stopped taking it 4 weeks ago using occasional opiates (fentanyl, poppy tea, oxy) on about 4 different occasions spanning 3-7 days apart. Also, I've used loperamide, usually 8mg daily, to combat WD's.

I am really quite upset and am ready to get my tolerance down so I can enjoy my favorite thing in the world again. 8(

After all, I've spent a lot of money in the past few weeks trying to get high and every attempt has been an utter failure. It would be insane to keep trying to get high, I truly feel like my opioid receptors are broken. Missykins, how long will it take to regenerate those receptors once I stop everything including loepramide?

 

[Missykins]

After all, I've spent a lot of money in the past few weeks trying to get high and every attempt has been an utter failure. It would be insane to keep trying to get high, I truly feel like my opioid receptors are broken. Missykins, how long will it take to regenerate those receptors once I stop everything including loepramide?

Impossible to say, but when you do try again, DO NOT USE A LOT, TITRATE UP, STARTING WITH A SMALL DOSE BECAUSE WHEN YOUR TOLERANCE DROPS, IT DROPS FAST!

 

[Ohayou]

I will absolutely heed your warning.

Loperamide, being a full agonist, would it be harder to WD from than buprenorphine? If that's the case, maybe I should ween fast off with the remaining bupe patches I have, cutting them into very small pieces and jump off after a while as opposed to using loperamide pills. Any input? Which might be easier?

I realize no one can pinpoint how long it may take for tolerance to return to little or nothing, but how long approximately? Weeks? Months? Several months?

 

[Missykins]

I cannot give you any advice re: loperamide because I am one of those people who actually believes that it does not cross the blood-brain barrier (based upon what I have been taught, read in the primary literature, and have experienced). I would imagine using your remaining bupe would be the smarter way to go, especially if you have them.

No clue when your tolerance will diminish to baseline. The longer you've been on bupe, the longer it will take (I would think), but there are individual differences. It's not something I have any personal experience with because I did not return to drug use once my treatment with Suboxone ended. Perhaps others in this forum can share their experiences.

 

[Ohayou]

Unfortunately, I began buprenorphine maintenance as a way to abuse the drug, not my best decision ever. I quickly became addicted to it before anything else.

So I will go ahead and taper down as low as I possibly can with these patches, going back to my last dose of 2.5mcg/hr, then 1.25mcg/hr, then 0.625mcg/hr (if I can cut it small enough), and then jump off. Does anyone think this is the right way to do this? Any suggestions?

 

[Tommyboy]

Alternate days. The long half-life should allow you to dose every other day, so try to do that for a week or so before stopping. What preparation of the bupe do you have? The temgesic? I'm just wondering due to the doses you mention now.

 

[Ohayou]

I am using the butrans transdermal (7 day dosing) patches.

Also, if I put a patch on now (after using loperamide and oxycodone) will I have precipitated WD's? The patch reaches peak plasma levels in about 72 hours.

 

[Znegative]

That's so weird that you're experiencing this. When I was injecting a total of .6 or so mg of buprenorphine a day, 60mg of oxy had me nodding, I'm surprised to hear this is common

 

[Ohayou]

Sometimes I think my receptors are totally broken because every attempt to get high has backfired, especially at high doses. If being totally clean for several months doesn't bring back something of the opiate experience I'm going to seriously think I have brain damage.

 

[Tommyboy]

My doses were a lot higher than yours, like 16mgs a day, so keep that in mind when applying it to my previous posts. Yes, I know now that that was a high dose, but 5 years ago I didn't know anything about suboxone, and just took what I was prescribed for the most part. Don't chance taking it too soon after the oxy. Try to wait 18hrs or so after the dose of oxy.