RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[furryfreek]

If 3F-PM has a remotely comparable LD50 (I guess, that Phenmetrazine itself is superior as a functional stim by a huge margin compared to the racemic 3F-PM, if the anecdotes are true), then it must have one of the lowest therapeutic indices of all stims. Then it would not only suck in vivo for me, but also on paper :D

Have you tried it, Ziiirp? As a functional stimulant it seems pretty good to me: few side effects, no comedown and it provides a pleasant level of stimulation at a range of doses (It's never made me feel jittery, over-stimulated or paranoid like other stims have a habit of doing to me, though I haven't pushed the dosage that far or used it for long periods). It's just a shame that the residual stimulation lasts so long but then that issue seems to be shared by plenty of other stims and is easily sorted with a little etizolam in any case. It doesn't seem so worthy of abuse as the parent compound, though that's not to say it's any less abusable (i.e. it's pretty morish and despite not being that "fun" some people could easily end up binging on this for weeks without eating or sleeping properly.) So I wouldn't say it's therapeutic index is considerably worse than that of the parent compound, at least not when used as a functional stim, but with regard to recreational (ab)use the risk:reward ratio is certainly worse, IMO.

I've been pushing the dosage a bit more today. I started the day with 40mg and re-dosed 20mg twice, each dose taken orally about 2-3 hours apart. The effects of my initial 40mg dose were about as strong as expected, possibly a bit less, though I only had about 5 hours sleep beforehand. Both of the 20mg re-doses were enough to extend and even slightly boost effects of the initial dose. Side effects were also increased compared to my earlier trials but still pretty insignificant (just felt a bit chilly at times and little sweatier than normal). This could be largely down to set/setting as I've only tried 3-FPM while alone at home in a state of mild boredom, but it seems to provide a less focused sort of stimulation compared to other stimulants I'm well acquainted with (only caffeine and some of the more stimulating kratom strains, really.) Although more alert and motivated to do stuff, I seem to have a lower attention span and get easily distracted while on 3-FPM, but like I say, maybe if I was at work and actually had a shit load of stuff to do or was in a more social setting that might not be an issue.

Although 3-FPM doesn't seem to do anything for music appreciation, I had a great time jamming and playing music while on it today. I can sort of see why the Beatles allegedly used the parent compound now as 3-F definitely seems to help get the creative juices flowing in a subtle sort of way.. It just seems to be the right sort of head-space to get properly into the music in a focused and attentive way, but without having to actually concentrate on any one thing in particular. For those of you who don't play much music or improvise, the ability to sort of zone out and not really think about anything while playing is pretty essential for improvising well or composing new music. Now, there are plenty of drugs (namely weed and psychedelics) that help one get into that sort of meditative state when playing music but they all lack the attentiveness that 3-FPM brings with it and/or have other disadvantages. I mean, although psychedelics can be the best source of inspiration any musician could want, the majority of the time they're more of a hindrance than anything when it comes to actually playing music, even if music appreciation is greatly enhanced. If you haven't got too much of a tolerance weed's great too but the problem with improvising while stoned is that, yeah, you can come out with a load of new cool riffs and stuff.. but by the time you've finished a tune you only remember like 1% of what you played. So basically, all of the drugs that normally help me play music are only really good for spur-of-the-moment jamming and don't really do much benefit in the long term; whereas I could really see 3-FPM helping to learn and create new material and actually retain it. I'm not too sure whether there's anything particularly special about 3-FPM itself when it comes to musical creativity, though. I reckon other stims, particularly those that also have an appreciable affect on serotonin, could be just as good or even better help for playing music. I don't really know though because until recently, I've been pretty wary of amphetamines, phenethylamines and stimulants in general, mostly because my first experiences with such chemicals were with dirty base amphetamine, ecstasy pills and coke which were cut with fuck knows what and all of which, except a few of the pills, made me feel rough as a dog and put me off stimulants for ages. Now that I've regained some confidence thanks to 3-FPM (along with a few stimulating psychedelics) and know that not all stimulants will necessarily turn me into a jittery, paranoid wreck I'll probably start experimenting with them a bit more.

EDIT: Now, at T+16, at least 10 since my last re-dose and after a beer, a shot or two of scotch and 1.5mg etizolam about two hours ago in preparation for sleepy time, I'm still pretty awake. It seems that benzo's aren't nearly as effective at clearing 3-FMA's residual stimulation when taken in larger doses and/or later in the day. Just .5mg of etizolam was plenty to get me a decent nights sleep after taking up to 30mg 3-FPM soon after waking with no more re-dosing throughout the day but this time, even after taking thrice that amount of etizolam to compensate for the higher 3-FPM usage today, I'm definitely still not ready for sleep. I won't deny that I'm having a pretty good time, though. Normally unless I take it while tripping, etizolam knocks me out pretty quickly, so I don't often get the chance to stay awake and fully appreciate its effects for long and because I rarely drink, that one beer has got me nicely tipsy. There also seems to be a bit of synergy between the lingering effects of the 3-FMA, etizolam and alcohol. It's like having all the effects of the alcohol and etizolam, minus any sedation, combined with what's remaining of the the elevated mood and creativity from the 3-FPM. I wouldn't say there's any sort of potentiation going on, but the combined effects do seem to go very well together, sort of reinforcing one another.

 

[thisisausername]

So.. is it safe to combo with ethylphenidate?
Edit: or MPA?

I've had no issues doing it.

 

[crOOk]

I called my profile name it! Simply because when I received a sample of this - I bloody loved it. Worked wonders - nice and clean. Finally!! BAM!!!

FFS stop advertising here!!!

 

[gymstud]

some said it might have maoi actoin sounds dangourus especially if ppl dont know

 

[crOOk]

It's probably neglible. Some other recreational drugs MAOIs, but not to a clinically significant degree.

We should still be very careful for now, but that's obvious I guess.

 

[Hecticus]

Last i used i smoked 50mg. Felt a slight headrush but the intensity dies down quite fast to a very smooth stimulation. I was also sweating profusely although it is summer here. Final thoughts is this may be a functional stimulant but definitely not recreational like Ethylphenidate for example.

 

[gymstud]

well i ate some cheese day after it and was ok

i understand maoi plus cheese would make sick

so its probsbly miner

 

[Ziiirp]

BAM!!!

Judging by your post I rather think your nickname describes the sound, that unfurled when the delivery nurse accidentally dropped you on the tiles of the youth hostel toilet.

 

[furryfreek]

Well I've only used it orally so far, but judging by other peoples reports, it sounds like oral and nasal administration are fairly comparable. Onset is about 20-40mins (though I usually dissolve it into a drink so it should be at the lower end of that range if bombed or toss-n-washed) and for work/study my sweet spot would be an initial dose of about 50mg with 15-20mg re-doses every two or three hours. One thing I'd be interested in is whether residual stimulation is much less when taken nasally? Even if I eat just 40mg at say 8am, I still can't sleep by midnight (at least) without sedatives (though it doesn't take much - like .5-1mg etizolam with little tolerance). I kind of doubt that snorting the stuff would have an appreciable effect on over-all duration as once it's in the bloodstream its half life is going to be the same regardless so if the onset isn't that much different, duration shouldn't be either.. but it's worth asking I guess.

I tried it at work for the first time today so got a better idea of how effective it is as a functional stimulant. I stand by my earlier observation that, for me at least, it provides a fairly undirected sort of stimulation. I definitely did more at work today than I would normally, but a larger proportion of it was lost to procrastination.. So it's kind of hard to say whether I was actually any more productive. I also decided not to re-dose at all because I have an early start tomorrow, need to get an early(ish) night and can't take too much etizolam for risk of oversleeping. I'm pretty certain I would've had better results had I re-dosed once or twice, though I'll have a go at that tomorrow as I'm going to want some to help with the early start and I've got and early weekend starting the following day, so it doesn't really matter if I can't sleep 'till the early hours.

I'm also still inclined to think that this substance is particularly well suited for creative work and certain types of learning. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what these "certain types of learning" are but for now I'd say mainly creative, trial-and-error and/or practical learning exercises such as learning a musical instrument and I guess stuff like circus skills and extreme sports. From my experiences alone, I'd say it may not be so useful as a general purpose study/work aid due to the aforesaid lack of focus/direction. However, it's that very trait that I think makes 3-FPM better suited to creative, practical/physical and social situations, all of which can be relevant to work and study depending your field. Also, although I don't find 3-FPM particularly recreational in its own right, most of those situations where it seems to shine are themselves pretty recreational, so it's not entirely without merit in that regard.

 

[Ziiirp]

I'm also still inclined to think that this substance is particularly well suited for creative work and certain types of learning. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what these "certain types of learning" are but for now I'd say mainly creative, trial-and-error and/or practical learning exercises such as learning a musical instrument and I guess stuff like circus skills and extreme sports. From my experiences alone, I'd say it may not be so useful as a general purpose study/work aid due to the aforesaid lack of focus/direction. However, it's that very trait that I think makes 3-FPM better suited to creative, practical/physical and social situations, all of which can be relevant to work and study depending your field. Also, although I don't find 3-FPM particularly recreational in its own right, most of those situations where it seems to shine are themselves pretty recreational, so it's not entirely without merit in that regard.

Hmm, I don't see the point in taking stims for recreational purposes. Recreation for me is correlated with relaxation and the latter is just not possible for me with stims.

Interesting, I got another gram so I might give oral dosing a try today as the burn really is pretty fierce.

One thing I will say, however, is that there seemed to be little to no residual stimulation nasally after redosing throughout a day (up to 400mg). I was asleep within a few hours of the last dose (albeit with the help of a small amount of cannabis + pyrazolam) and normally a sleepless night is a given for me after ethylphenidate, even if I stop redosing 10+ hours prior to going to bed.

Yeah, sleep is no problem after about ~7 hours even after big insufflated doses. But the residual stimulation is caused by the metabolites, which IMHO have to be present at certain levels first, before they get active. I insufflated around the same amount and the after effects got apparent ~48 hours after the intake. Take a break from stims for a few days and see, how it goes.

 

[crOOk]

Ok I got the stuff today, had 3 rather large injections. Well, I am not going to go into details, but I will say this much, and please mark my words: If future lab work does not attest significant serotonergic action to this compound, then I will suck off a donkey!

Report will follow.

4-FA is great, but the serotonergic action suggests that it should be saved for appropriate parties and such. However, I found 3F-Phenmetrazine to satisfy everything it is that I personally look for in a stim

Not everyone seems to agree. Honest to god, I don't usually theorize a whole lot about what there isn't any strong evidence of. All I can say is that I know serotonergic action when I see it. But well, I will report in detail later.

 

[nickfurry]

This one lasts forever. After doing less than 100 mg oral + nasal in total over the course of around 5 hours, I was still awake 24 hours later and I still feel some residual stimulation, more than 48 h later.

It wasn't even very fun. Hardly a hint of euphoria, a content feeling maybe. It also wasn't really productive, unfortunately. The speedy feelings subsided perhaps 2h after the last dose (nasal), and left me feeling somewhat like a low dose of a speed after effects but without any comedowny feelings. Strong bruxism, some mydriasis but surprisingly mild xerostomia compared to amp. No urge to redose, no urge to fap I did get some OCD type behavior though, but I'm like that without drugs much of the time anyway, so it's hard to say.

The most interesting effect was the strange hyperthermia. I didn't feel anything resembling vasoconstriction, but I didn't really feel hot either. However, I went outside for a walk wearing just a t-shirt (and pants etc, duh) even though it was below 0 degrees centigrade. I didn't feel cold at all! When I came inside, the skin on stomach was numb from the low temperature, but I still didn't feel cold at all. I didn't feel hot going inside either, and wasn't sweating anywhere near the amount I do on amphetamine.

I kept wearing just a t-shirt inside, and the apartment was pretty cold, perhaps 10-15 centigrade. As the effects of the drug kept wearing off perhaps 6 hours later, I slowly started to freeze a bit. So maybe this drug would be great for losing weight. A largish dose of amphetamine also makes me not feel any cold, but the side effects would be much more apparent.

Will probably not try this again, felt pretty useless.

 

[LeeviON]

By the way, here's an article about 3-FPM from TripSit.me. The duration etc. seem to be well aligned with the truth, what do you guys think?

 

[furryfreek]

Nickfurry, you're not wrong about the duration, though by the looks of it some people are more susceptible to the residual stimulation than others. I seem to be affected by it pretty badly and unintentionally pulled an all-nighter the other night despite 1mg of etizolam, so I ended up taking more 3-FPM in the early hours and throughout the following day until about 4pm. However, even though I took far more (120mg vs 40 the prior day) and until much later that day, I didn't have any trouble getting to sleep at around midnight. I did take about .75mg of etizolam an hour before bed but I already felt tired enough to sleep. I just wanted to make sure I did so fairly quickly and figured that residual stimulation might mess with my quality of sleep and the etiz would hopefully help me feel well rested the following day (today). I had no work today so was able to get a good 12 hours sleep and feel fine.

So I think if you're genuinely sleep deprived and use this to get through the day (not something I'd recommend doing often or for days on end) the residual stimulation is less of an issue because the need for sleep overpowers it to some degree. Though obviously, you need to actually catch up on sleep if you're not to repeat the cycle so it's pointless if you have to be up early the next day; you'd be far better off with a few cups of coffee and an early night.

LeeviON, I personally disagree with most of the numbers in that article, but then I don't claim to react typically to stimulants. I'd say their dosages are a bit low (this is coming from a complete lightweight when it comes to stims), their onset is about right but their duration is misleadingly low. The duration is, I think, very subjective and depends on the dosage, the individual and the circumstances in which it is taken but those figures seem to be based on the lower end of the spectrum. This is completely speculative, but I'm pretty sure the half life of this chemical is at least 12 hours, probably more like 15 or so for me personally. If I take some first thing in the morning, there's still at least half of that lingering when it's time for bed, which is often enough to disrupt sleep.

 

[LeeviON]

furryfreek, the half-life of 3-FPM might be quite low, but its metabolites can still have long half-lives. The dosages are indeed quite low, but I suppose that's in the name of harm reduction (start low, etc.)
I mostly pointed the article out because it's the first single datasheet about this substance and its effects etc. that I've found, and I think easily accessible information collected into one place is one of the keys to HR.

 

[Lady Codone]

I'm taking from your post here that you consider 2-fa to be significantly less risky for "regular use" (what do you mean by that?)? Is this the general consensus (haven't gotten around to doing the research yet, I'm just curious)? I've read through a few threads and recall some concerns regarding toxicity of halogenated amphetamines which a bit worrisome.

Also, don't mean to get this thread off topic, just meant to make a quick inquiry.

Sorry for the delayed response. Haven't checked this thread in a while.

I don't consider 2-FA or any RC to be "safe" for regular use...quite the opposite. I worry constantly about what these drugs might be doing to me, but until I can secure an Adderall prescription I will continue using them in low doses to self-medicate. I rarely exceed 20-25 mg per day with 2-FA and even less for 2-FMA (10-15 mg range). But I've been a daily user of fluoroamphetamines since late 2011. My concern with 3f-phen is that it's so new. I know nothing about chemistry or pharmacology so I can't speculate on how it compares to other stims in terms of health risks.

I will be trying 3f-phenmetrazine VERY soon, btw. Just ingested a tiny tester dose of ~1 mg. Will report back.

 

[cousinskeeter]

Let me play devil's advocate here, since this is an HR forum and all. Please don't take anything I'm about to say negatively. I've been hooked on every stimulant you can name and was too a daily user of 2FMA for roughly 1.5 years. Also by no means am I clean or sober, simply just lookin out for fellow drug users. Cool? Cool. *fist bump* that said....

but until I can secure an Adderall prescription I will continue using them in low doses to self-medicate. I rarely exceed 20-25 mg per day with 2-FA and even less for 2-FMA (10-15 mg range). But I've been a daily user of fluoroamphetamines since late 2011.

Your fist sentence was a statement that you don't consider these chemicals safe. Not that you were undecided or unsure, but that you straight up did not consider them safe. But yet you've been doing flouroamphetamines since 2011 daily? May I ask as to what you are medicating for? Is it to get high or is it for a self-diagnosed ADD? (because if it was doctor-diagnosed you would have a legitimate Adderall prescription.)

My concern with 3f-phen is that it's so new

Again, basically no modern human or animal studies have been done on 2FA or 2FMA, so in terms of "Safety" they are just as new as 3F-Phen. Now I know some people might chime in and say, well I've been using 2FMA daily since 2010, (hell, even I used it for 1.5 years straight and felt basically zero negative side effects) and see nothing wrong with me mentally or physically. True, and while that Flourine doesn't break off the molecule at all in the body, we don't know how it affects its binding profile, and its effects on other organs. It could be the safest drug ever, or you could drop dead in 2 weeks. Same with 3f-Phen. However Phenmetrazine, if I recall, is actually has a pretty damn good safety profile.

I'm too lazy to look up halogenated phenmetrazine derivatives and speculate on effects, I would say that considering Methamphetamine is neurotoxic, and Phenmetrazine is not, you're better off finding a nice low dose of 3f-P and trying that for a bit as opposed to 2FMA. Personally I very much liked it. It boosted my mood much more than 2FA or 2FMA, gave me energy, didnt crack me out. Lasted 3-4 ish hours. Can't comment further cause I only had a sample of it (but it was a legit sample.)

Anyways... my point is, that if you are actually truly worried about health risks of RCs, then don't take them. If you are in medical need of an ADHD drug to help with concentration or something, I would go to the doctor and tell them the truth regarding your possible ADD/concentration issues. You literally have nothing to lose right? Even if they deny you the Adderall, then hop back on the RCs. Or they may give you something weaker but similar that helps just the right amount.

Just lookin out for ya is all. 4 years of daily RC amphetamine use is pushin it. I'm not really one to talk, but I know doctor-shopping has worked out for a few friends of mine when it comes to adderall or subs. Cheers and have fun with that 3f-P.

 

[Lady Codone]

Appreciate the concern, cousinskeeter. Everything you said, I've considered many times and agree fully. I plan to seek an ADD diagnosis ASAP to hopefully get some safer meds. Just not sure how to go about it. I've finally got health insurance though, which was a major obstacle for many years. I've always had trouble focusing (on one thing at a time, lol) but learned to compensate--which is still mentally exhausting. Just don't want to look like a drug-seeker because I do legitimately have attention issues...

Until I get a diagnosis, my options are basically RC stimulants or Benzedrex. Wonder which option would be safer? (In low doses, of course). I used Benzedrex daily for 2 years before switching to RCs. One inhaler would last 7 days. But enough about me

____________________________________________


As for the 3f-phen, here's my initial impression:

- Little to no (noticeable) serotonin action.
- No problem sleeping after a night of oral and nasal dosing (25 mg total).
- Appetite suppression greater than that of 2-FA/FMA.
- Burns the nose about 40% as badly as 4-FA.
- No repetitive thought loops like with 2-FMA.
- Slightly more adrenergic than I'd like.
- Painful gas/urgent bowel movements (twice).
- Mind was moderately euphoric but scattered. No laser-like focus.
- Oral dosing preferable to nasal.
- No next-day stimulation. Heart rate was 84 bpm upon waking, which is about normal for me.

It's hard to nail down which effects were caused by the 3f-phen and which were caused by my awful new birth control. I think some of the doses people are using are INSANE considering the newness of this chem. I cannot imagine taking 250-500 mg in one sitting.

After reading a British forum, the opinions seem very split on 3f-phen. Some people say it causes "flu-like" symptoms on the comedown, feels toxic and is likely as dangerous as 5-IT. Most of the people here love it. What's up with that?

 

[Sprout]

Ok I got the stuff today, had 3 rather large injections. Well, I am not going to go into details, but I will say this much, and please mark my words: If future lab work does not attest significant serotonergic action to this compound, then I will suck off a donkey!

Report will follow.

Not everyone seems to agree. Honest to god, I don't usually theorize a whole lot about what there isn't any strong evidence of. All I can say is that I know serotonergic action when I see it. But well, I will report in detail later.

Thank you! My, admittedly brief, experience with 3-FPM had me convinced of a SE based activity. The dopaminergic effects were primary, but it had that certain serotonergic 'feel' at higher oral doses.
The data says otherwise and I am inclined to trust that over my personal observations.

 

[TriputoryHeadicine]

Fuck the data in that regard. It does have "Negligible" SE activity, but those trials weren't done high dose IV or IN were they? I'm inclined to agree with Crook. Looking forward to testing it myself next week. Whoopee! :D

still...No rc is going to be a regular thing for me, until some proper studies or Much more anectdotal accounts of long term administration with - or + effects comes out.