RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[romealone]

Btw I should mention that I have acquired a big fat blood clot after a single injection into a major vein. 200nm filtered, fresh sterile 27G needle, hit it with the first attempt and did not have any drug end up in the extravasal connective tissue.

Shit man, very sorry to hear this. I hole you are alright. Please keep us updated. I have a few questions though

1- u mention u filtered in through 200nm filter. If I recall, 200nm equals 0.2um. Is this correct? You filtered the solution thru a 0.2 micron wheel filter?

2-I mean no offense, but In a previous post u mention that this stuff is SO incredibly caustic to tissue that the only ROA u can recommend is IV. If this stuff is truly so corrosive that you can't insuffialate it, rectal use causes bleeding, and even oral use causes intense pain, what the hell made you think IV use would be a reasonable choice. Again, I'm not trying to be a condescending dick, but you seem like a bright guy, so if a chem is so harsh that you consider oral use to be unbearable, I would imagine that the fact that this would cause major problems when putting it into your veins should not come as a surprise to you. ..

Again, I hope you are doing ok, and may I ask what u are doing to address the blood clot that's formed. Have u sought medical attention? While it is fairly uncommon for clots in superficial veins, such as the one you hit, to lead to pulmonary emboli (it's almost always deep vein clots that leas to PE's, it is possible for a Superifical clots to cause a PE...and that is not something u wanna take a chance on. Plus, there are other serious complications that can develop in response to blood clots formed in superficial veins.

Please seek out medical attention if you haven't already and please be safe in the future.

Lastly, if this drug is so problematic in terms of finding a safe and non-excruciating way to ingest it, may I ask why u have continued to experiment with it? Are the effects extremely euphoric? I have heard IV use is extremely enjoyable, do u agree? But regardless how euphoric it may be, it seems clear that this chem is just too dangerous and caustic to mess with.

Please let us know how u are doing and any developments that arise, and again, PLEASE SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION.

 

[benzo_rabbit]

I went through 5 grams in about a week, almost exclusively by insufflation. Maybe I just have an iron nose, but it felt fine afterwards. Well, runny for a couple of days, but other than that not much of a concern. Nothing compared to the damage that ethylphenidate does.

 

[JBrandon]

How have you felt cognitively and emotionally after hitting 5g in a week?

 

[uncle_bud]

From my experience there is a very big difference how you ingest it. My first try was around 10 - 20 mg snorted, which after 10 minutes produced a nice warm feeling, i could say my mood was greatly improved, but i could go out with let's say parents or something that would require me to be completely sober. We were than bumping it a few times with around 50 mg or something but it never got beyond the nice warm feeling. We did drink beer during this.

My second try was one week later. Prepared 3 35 mg capsules. Met with the same people, same place. We drank quite some beer and decided to try the 3F-PM. Since i only had 3 capsules we had 2 split to for 4 people to snort half. I eat the final one. After some time it was as expected from previous experiences, nothing really pronounced but feeling something for the people who snort it. And right about this time it was starting to hit me. OMG... i presume beer had to do something with this... but i was coming up and starting to feel soo damn good, like i would eat 60-70 mg MDMA... wonderful It was actually really euphoric, and i bet a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It lasted for about 2 hours.

Has anyone else reported same findings? Oral being much better? I know a lot of people snort drugs just cause they crave the burn in the nose but thinkgs like methlyone, MDMA and i guess MDMA are just better eaten :D

 

[Boris_]

First time today i tried to vape it (alu foil), fucking great short rush, then quickly dysphoric, "yeaa just one more", 400mg gone in a couple of hours, now 10 hours after last dose still upped, huge pupils, stimulated but very different than any other stimulant, has some weird metabolites this stuff.

 

[BuzzCandy]

Acquired two 500mg samples before christmas, decided to sample a bit on the many train journeys I was taking as I'd read it was a clean stim, yielding good focus which was ideal as I had to do a lot of reading. Needless to say that free g didn't last long and I found myself blindly ordering 5g because I adored the confidence, the focus, the flourishes of creative thought.

I read that there is "no comedown". If it hasn't already been said (and it should be bleeding obvious) there is a comedown. If you fall into the trap of binging senselessly and deplete all your Dopamine and Noradrenaline you will feel like shit for at least 2-3 days because of it's 31~ hour half-life.

Since this rude awakening I have been treating this chem with much much more respect. I usually wrap up a bomb if I have an early class and want to be nice and alert, or if I have a stack of books to read, or (and this is the best option) be like the Beatles and take a hit before playing a gig. Nothing like a clean speed rush to get you in the mood for pounding on a drumkit.

Anyway, I'm not glorifying this chemical. It is fun, it's helped with somethings but downright ruined others. It's fiendish and it's easy to forget the importance of food completely in the midst of a binge, I had to make sure I ate something for fear of collapsing. My advice is to only take this if you have a purpose, or goal/work/study/intense social situations. Do not take this alone, other people don't need to take it too but don't take it in your own company or you will easily convince yourself to binge with your lowered inhibitions. Take a maximum 3 average-sized bombs in one day or forget sleeping without booze/weed/benzo/opiates or other depressants.

And remember this is a MAOI.

 

[cousinskeeter]

Is it really a decent MAOI? Damn I must have missed that. Glad I didn't do anything crazy without that info under my belt.

I read that there is "no comedown".

I might be guilty here and there of making a claim like that here or there. But I think anytime someone says no comedown, take it with a gain of salt. There was people saying a-PVP and MDPV didn't have come-downs back in the day. I STRONGLY beg to differ. It's not a width drawl type comedown, rather a makes-you-feel like crap type. YMMV

 

[Sprout]

MAOI? Are we talking Amphet level inhibition or worse?

 

[InterestingFACT]

I'm sure it's an Mao substrate but that's not really the same as an maoi.

 

[noobcakes]

Hello, first post here but thought I would post my experiences. A friend who has been using 3FPM for a couple of months had been asking me to try it for a while and kindly gave me a 150mg sample which I decided to try last night.

I started a timer and used a Heart Rate app for my phone to log the heart rate and then put comments on my experience at that moment.

Various details about me: Male, 32, very active athlete, normal resting heart rate 48bpm, heart rate gets to 190bpm for 30+ minutes during short distance races but steady 160-170 for 26.2 mile marathons. 6'8" tall (yes, tall, 6'8", 203cm) weight 87kg/191lbs.

T-day - Normal day at work, 10k/6.22mi run at lunch (in the ice and snow), healthy eating, busy day at office but not overly stressful.

T+0 - 5:56pm - weigh out 50mg, put in mouth, notice awful taste, walk to bathroom for a drink to wash it down with water.
T+10 notice slight high feeling and carry on reading this thread on Bluelight.
T+30 Decide to have a shower and an early night to see what this is like neutrally.
T+45 After showering decided to take the other 100mg, orally, washed down with plenty of water as it just seemed like a fantastic thing to do!
T+60 Listening to music, reading in-depth people's experiences of this substance. I notice that I am concentrating quite hard and feel like I could get things done.
T+1h44m (7:39pm) 157bpm heart rate, standing
T+1h50m (7:46pm) 128bpm heart rate - erratic - go for a walk around. Not dizzy, head seems clear and I could concentrate on things (or over-concentrate)
T+1h55m (7:51pm) 135bpm heart rate standing. Mildly concerned about heart rate but not feeling anxious or as if my chest is going to explode or anything - feeling positive and smooth. Very aroused sexually.
T+2h08m (8:03pm) 66bpm heart rate - laying in bed, reading, listening to pleasing music - heart rate much better.
T+2h20m (8:15pm) 82bpm heart rate - laying in bed, as above. Heart rate not erratic.
T+2h47m (8:43pm) 75bpm heart rate - steady heart rate, got up to urinate three times now, fluids being topped up each time afterwards. Cold feet even though in warm bed (vasoconstriction?)
T+2h58m (8:54pm) 67bpm heart rate - Decent smooth beat, another piss, laying in bed, more reading (very interested in all subjects and things right now) and listening to nice music.
T+?h??m (9:24pm) 83bpm heart rate - Smoked tiny dose of MMB-CHMINACA with normal tobacco (used normal filter in rollup as very strong even at small dosages and still experimenting, cannabinoid)
T+3h53m (9:48pm) 77bpm heart rate - I'll quote this one exactly "post wank - HAD AWESOME WANK!" MMB making me feel more alert than before when it would normally be making me sleepy afterwards.
T+4h23m (10:19pm) 80bpm "I like how I feel. Listening to uplifting music and reading. Really need a piss, very awake"
T+4h49m (10:44pm) 73bpm "Another piss over. Finished reading. Will turn off music and see if sleep happens but feeling very awake"
T+5h39m (11:35pm) 94bpm "Post wank! No sleep but no unpleasantness about trying to sleep - no anxiety - Will have normal cigarette, urinate, Diclazepam soon.
T+5h47m (11:43pm) 150bpm - After 2 minutes standing - heart rate greatly increases when standing, I've noticed, erratic. 2mg Diclazepaml "Now bed, to sleep, hopefully"
T+5h59m (11:55pm) 71bpm - "Very relaxed. Feel like I could sleep"
T+7h07m (01:03am) 80bpm - "Cannot sleep." Also becoming very hot despite the heating being off for at least two hours. Have removed most of duvet to let cold in.

(No entries, sleep must have happened!)

T+13h09s (7:05am) 53bpm - Awoke feeling a bit groggy at first (which I put down to the general feeling I get the morning after when using Diclazepam) but shortly after getting up and going for a piss I notice that I'm not groggy anymore, I'm very much awake. I notice this until 11am at the office.

At no time today did I feel tired. I had a very productive day despite the day being stressful I did not feel stressed and it feels like one of the best days at the office. I ate normally throughout the day and felt no sickness.

As I sit here now, at home, 7:26pm, I still feel alert, more alert than I normally would be, but not in an unpleasant way. It seemed quite clean, no anxiety.

Apart from the sweating and feeling hot which started to happen shortly before 7 hours in the whole experience was very nice, and it seems that I spent most of the evening wanking(!) so the stim was quite arousing for me. Although vasoconstriction/pilly willy/stim dick was (mildly) present, it didn't seem to cause any trouble.

I'm not sure how addictive this substance is, but given that I had no plans to take more than 50mg last night then 45 minutes in decided to nosh the rest of the 100mg sample (it just seemed like it would be a good idea) the first thing I did when I got to the office this morning was order 2g of 3FPM and selected 'next day delivery' and also added 3mg of NM2AI to the order.

I could have ordered far more 3FPM, but I think 2g will be enough for me to decide whether I'm going to want to carry on using it, and the NM2AI to see how that changes the experience.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

To be honest mate, i think you will be a little disappointed mixing it with 2ai. It just increases risidual stimulation and negates the euphoria ime..

 

[Sprout]

Vaping 3-FPM is becoming quickly addictive. Feels incredible, and that's the problem...

 

[noobcakes]

How many mg are you vaping?

 

[crOOk]

I could have ordered far more 3FPM, but I think 2g will be enough for me to decide whether I'm going to want to carry on using it, and the NM2AI to see how that changes the experience.

I am sure you did not read it, but I experienced very what were predominantly serotonergic effects the first time I used 3-Fluoro-Phenmetrazine. I got the full package, too, full-on teeth clenching, eye lid dropping body load. I looked as if I had done too much MDMA, my vision was affected, I felt that familiar sensation in the back of my throat and my cognitive performance was decreased instead of being improved which is what I abuse stimulants for. My mood also dropped off afterwards and that has never happened to me after using stimulants, not even after months of daily use.

Anyway, this is why I strongly disadvise you to mix 3F-P with other serotonergic drugs. Things can go to shit very quickly and unexpectedly! I've seen it happen and it has happened to me. It is not necessary for the drugs to be strongly serotonergic either. Ten times you're fine and then a drug of which you didn't even know it had clinically significant serotonergic effects causes you

I would go to the doctor and tell them the truth regarding your possible ADD/concentration issues

First of all, I really liked your post for pointing out a common justification for stimulant (ab)use, while not forgettimg to mention your own shortcomings in terms of drug abuse.
I could see a few more reasons for not using a legit pharmaceutical product though, e.g. amphetamine or doctor's visits not being covered by health insurance, not having health insurance at all or no pharmaceutical amphetamine in the respective country. Doctors used to mix it for you here in Germany and we've only had lisdexamfetamine (and methylphenidate which I hate just as much as cocaine) for a couple of years.

But nonetheless, I am gonna tell my version of the the advice regarding medical treatment that you gave.

I do not condone lying to your doctors or scoring meds for symptoms you do not exhibit. However even if you do have ADHD, getting a diagnosis for it is extremely hard depending on where you live. Fortunately there are ways to facilitate the psychiatrist's initial suspicion for ADHD. You can trust me on this, I'm very good with psychiatrists because on one hand I know a shit ton of doctors personally, on the other hand I've been a psychiatric patient for a very long time. It all started with me trying to score speed btw. :D

I can only urge whoever was quoted (no nick in the quote) not to be too honest when seeing a psychiatrist in order to get a stimulant prescription. Ideally you'll be saying that a lot of people told you to go, eventhough you don't see too big a problem yourself, it's just the other people (family, colleagues, friends teachers etc.).
Whatever you do, do not tell him that you think you have ADHD or even want a stimulant prescription, don't even name the classical symptoms for it, but the less well-known instead. If it doesn't come up at all, just come back another time. In certain situations it's just best to just take the SSRI's and then come back after a few weeks. It sometimes just takes a while to find the right diagnosis and even longer for the right meds to be found.

When ADHD is first mentioned be it by the psychiatrist or by yourself, make damn sure to let him know that you have strong doubts about that diagnosis. You've heard people suggest it a lot in the past, but *make up some reason why you disagree and why nothing is wrong with you*. It'll challenge him to increase your compliance.

Now if you should consider all this bad advice and go about it your own way, there is a high chance you'll instantly be labelled a so-called 'drug seeker' which means you're never going to be treated with stimulants, ADHD or not. I am always completely honest about my drug abuse, I have nothing to hide from my doctors. One even wanted a list of substances I abused (over 150 entries lol).

Whatever you're going to do, do not let the psychiatrist know of your intentions! But at the same time, you should NOT forget to keep an open mind towards whatever he sees in you during your initial visit. Enjoying stimulants is not a guarantee you have ADHD. You might as well just have affective issues made worse by years of drug abuse. Those are known for affecting your ability to focus or even follow a train of thought. (Affective issues were also the diagnosis I eventually got years later, BD1 to be precise).
There might be drugs that you actually grow to like even more than speed, without having any side effects worth mentioning. I for example had been treated with mostly neuroleptics and lithium for some time, a few S(N)RI's as well, but eventually made a switch to Lamotrigine and Bupropion and I have not had a single miserable day since I got on it (think waking up suicidal), no sides I can notice whatsoever. The right psychiatric diagnosis could possibly end up sorting you out with medication that largely abolishes your desire to use stimulants.



I definitely have to remember mentioning some things about safer use when it comes to intravenous injections of 3-Fluoro-Phenmetrazine. Probably only after I've written up a report about my accidental 20mg dose of AB-CHMINACA. I actually managed not to lose my shit, but it was quite a challenge!! Definitely more than worthy of a report.^^

 

[crOOk]

@furryfreekThat's quite weird, it seems that Drugbank takes into account the metabolites, while Wikipedia doesn't.. actually, in the Wikipedia article it says that about 70% of the drug is excreted from the body within 24 hours, which quite closely matches the number on Drugbank.

First of all, we have no idea what the half-life is, but it couldn't be phenmetrazine as far as I know. Don't take my word on it. Half life is a mediocre indicator of how how long you will subjectively be under the effects of a drug. Sure it's the only thing we have got to get an idea and usually the correlation to the duration of the acute effects is there, but 36h does not say shit.

You could come down down after an hour, even if half the drug stays in your system for days. Take diazepam for example:
It's half life is 20–100 hours and it's main gabaergic metabolite oxazepam in turn has a half of 36-200 (figured off wikipedia, they are about right). Does the high last about a week for you? :D I have a very hard time to sleep the next night after taking it, that's how quickly I go from high to rebound, despite having close to as much benzos in me as the day before

Now, not to mention that it is near impossible to get an idea how much much total activity will be left inside any given person at a certain point of time, let alone what effects the remaining substance has.

Many factors play a part, e.g. one could have very high turnover by the protein which metabolizes the first substance, but a ridiculously low turnover for that which metabolizes the second. Often multiple enzymes metabolize the same substance. The further the effects and half life between a drug and it's metabolites diverge, the worse an indicator of effects it is, which is especially true for situations in which different enzymes metabolize the substances.


Some more examples from my own experience:

Tramadol has me nodding for 18-22h, every fucking time, given I take enough.
I am not able to sleep for 30h after the last dose of amphetamine and even 10mg olanzapine at the 20h mark won't change that. Cocaine has me crash after 20-30min, 3-Fluoro-Phenmetrazine makes me crave a little bit after 2-3h (like a long drawn out sigh), but it keeps me stimulated for many many hours after that's over.

So what I was trying to say, fuck that half life you read about, you are well-advised to listen to the bluelighters who have actually tried the drug. That's what is done in clinical research. Btw there cannot even be a half-life for this one online, since there have most definitely not been any clinical studies on it yet (unless it was first discovered many years ago).

Or in short: 2-3h is about right for the first drop-off in effects and slight cravings to set in, but you will feel a lot of stimulation afterwards.

 

[cybergollum]

a couple of post say inactive at 100mg oral and then it seems other are claiming it orally active at 30/40/50mg. is there any consensus at all?

Yes, there is consensus (at least for me). As have been said generally it depends on your expectations, what are you looking for to get from stimulants. For some stim euphory you need higher dosages, for mild ambient stimulation you need relatively lower dosages, and so on.
As for me, I felt some certain effects even at 10mg 3-fp (oral). Of course it wasn't hard and initial high ended soon enough but it definitely existed and wasn't a placebo.

It might not be apparent now with people doing 20-50mg, but once they have developed a tolerance I am afraid they will be doing north of 200mg in a single dose. I used 300 orally and it wasn't worth writing home about...

I guess it is more about habits... I generally stop at 50-60 mg (intramuscular) and don't raise it higher even if I have enough material to experiment. It looks pointless for me because even 80 mg lasts no really longer than 50 mg (i mean 'rush'). So I decided rather to re-dose more frequent with lower doses than rare with big doses. Not sure is it relatively safer so won't do any suggestions...

 

[noobcakes]

I'm going to have to think quite carefully what I do with the rest of my 3FPM.

22 hours ago I took 100mg of 3FPM and 50mg of NM2AI orally and it's so moreish that again in under an hour not only was I re-dosing I caught myself skipping the scales completely and just shoved my finger in the bag of 3FPM and sucking the powder off of it, then did it again before I stopped myself. I have decided that even after just two experiences with it (the 150mg sample from a friend, followed by ordering 2g for myself) I find that I am experiencing some early signs of dependency.

I had to go to the office to do some technical work, absolutely no sleep, but I weighed out 50mg and wrapped it in a couple of rizlas and bombed it at the office with coca cola.

23 hours, no sleep for two days, hugely aroused sexually (thankfully I've got some friends nearby who helped out) and I'm still not tired. If I carry on like this then soon there's going to be some burn out and I don't want to be there when it happens. I'm not re-dosing tonight and I've no idea what to do with the rest of the 2g packet as I don't want to throw it away, but I know it's there.

 

[JBrandon]

There's a real tendency to go on runs with this because there isn't an apparent crash. In reality it's definitely got a comedown, you just have to wait a few days for it. I'd stop now if I was you, hit all the downers necessary to get some sleep, and have someone else hold the shit for a few days.

 

[benzo_rabbit]

The comedown exists, but it's the most gentle comedown I've ever had after doing a stimulant binge. It's also the least euphoric stimulant I've done, so I guess that's fair.

 

[noobcakes]

Annoyingly shortly after posting that I did a mini bump of 25mg followed an hour later with something to help me to sleep.

Sunday nothing but today, Monday morning, decided to do 50mg as felt groggy after getting out of bed.